Dynamis Antics

[ShomeGhuye]

Yep...

 

[jyakotsu]

You like our system yet you don't like our system.

You like the scheduling but don' tlike it when we post who doesn't adhere to our scheduling. You like the fact that you don't have to worry as much about people swiping your zones, yet you don't like the fact that we post about people who don't care to adhere to our schedule. That my friend is a double standard. Yes I have read all of your recommendations, and no I do not agree to what you are saying.

If you want to be in a shell that doesn't adhere to our schedule, and doesn't care to use QCDN. Then why should you care if we post your name in this website. Most if not all NA shells from Midgard know about our dynamis scheduling page. If the leaders don't care to adhere to it then so be it, they'll be blackballed. If you are in a shell that doesn't adhere to it because you are next in line for Duelist's Chapeau then so be it, you will be blackballed. In the end you are choosing greed over the general consensus that is Dynamis scheduling.

Honestly, it doesn't take but 10 minutes for a person to schedule their dynamis on here ONCE A MONTH. If they are so against being blackballed on a website they obviously don't use.... why don't they stand up and volunteer to be their linkshell's dynamis scheduler on QCDN.

I guarantee you that if their names are listed on QCDN as a zone jacker, and their shell disbands... not too many Quetz shells will be likely to pick them up because most if not all leaders of our shells check the flameboards for negative points against players... it is called the search feature on QCDN

It isn't because we are out to get midgard people. This happened well before the server merge... It started happening when the 25$ feature was introduced lol.

 

[Samaire]

How long did it take you'll to work all the kinks out of the scheduling system when you first started it up? I'm pretty sure it took awhile.

I say give them a few months, maybe June and July, then start bitching about players and blackballing them. That should be about ~six months, and if they haven't heard by then or got on board, have at them. As for me, your pencil/paper rules work fine and I have no qualms with them or suggestions at this time.

I will say that the Anti-Midgard is most disheartening. I bleed the same Quetz blood as the rest of the old timers, yet I am looked down upon by the actions of a few of my fellow server mergers. Most depressing.

Also calling people from Midgard, Miggers. Completely tasteless.

 

[Divinius]

You like our system yet you don't like our system.

You like the scheduling but don' tlike it when we post who doesn't adhere to our scheduling. You like the fact that you don't have to worry as much about people swiping your zones, yet you don't like the fact that we post about people who don't care to adhere to our schedule. That my friend is a double standard.

Jesus fucking Christ on a bike, have you actually understood ANY of my posts? I feel like I'm talking to a wall. I have said MULTIPLE times, I have NO problem with posting who doesn't adhere to your scheduling. I said that I actually would ALSO post the shells that don't want to use it, so other people know which shells to watch out for. All I have been saying is that I don't think you should be blackballing EVERY SINGLE MEMBER of a shell that doesn't use it, on the grounds that many of those members may not yet feel the system is worth ditching their longstanding LS over.

I guarantee you that if their names are listed on QCDN as a zone jacker, and their shell disbands... not too many Quetz shells will be likely to pick them up because most if not all leaders of our shells check the flameboards for negative points against players..

YES! This is EXACTLY my god-damned point! If one of the unfortunate people that is in a shell lead by non-conforming leaders chooses to stay in that shell (perhaps against his ethical beliefs) until he gets that piece of he's been waiting for (potentially) YEARS for, then finally does decide that he'd rather be in a shell that plays nice, it's already too late for him because some assclown posted HIS name (instead of just the leaders names) on this board. Blackball the zone-jackers all you like. Don't invite them to your precious Dynamis shells when theirs inevitably break. But don't be so damned strict about your schedule policing that you ruin the rep of someone that later chooses to do the right thing, because they really did agree with you all along, but couldn't do anything about it right away.

I agree with Sama. Give it some time. Those that don't conform will eventually see enough resistance from others that they will have a very hard time keeping members and finding new ones. They will most likely eventually die off.

 

[Divinius]

Yep...

I agree... I'm finding myself saying the same things over and over again in different ways to try to get people to understand my point, and they seem to consistently be missing it. I'm ready to give up. I probably should have given up back on page 3.

 

[jyakotsu]

Jesus fucking Christ on a bike, have you actually understood ANY of my posts? I feel like I'm talking to a wall. I have said MULTIPLE times, I have NO problem with posting who doesn't adhere to your scheduling. I said that I actually would ALSO post the shells that don't want to use it, so other people know which shells to watch out for. All I have been saying is that I don't think you should be blackballing EVERY SINGLE MEMBER of a shell that doesn't use it, on the grounds that many of those members may not yet feel the system is worth ditching their longstanding LS over.



YES! This is EXACTLY my god-damned point! If one of the unfortunate people that is in a shell lead by non-conforming leaders chooses to stay in that shell (perhaps against his ethical beliefs) until he gets that piece of he's been waiting for (potentially) YEARS for, then finally does decide that he'd rather be in a shell that plays nice, it's already too late for him because some assclown posted HIS name (instead of just the leaders names) on this board. Blackball the zone-jackers all you like. Don't invite them to your precious Dynamis shells when theirs inevitably break. But don't be so damned strict about your schedule policing that you ruin the rep of someone that later chooses to do the right thing, because they really did agree with you all along, but couldn't do anything about it right away.

I agree with Sama. Give it some time. Those that don't conform will eventually see enough resistance from others that they will have a very hard time keeping members and finding new ones. They will most likely eventually die off.

did you not read what I wrote as well? "JESUS FUCKING CHRIST ON A BIKE" See I can do that too ^^

Remember I was on your side for a while as well.

I do not agree with the "I am next in line for the chapeau then I'll abide by the rules"

How the fuck does that work? In that case let me join Absolution for a while till I get my E body, then I promise I'll think botting is bad. I mean if they want to adhere to the forum then so be it, if they don't then why should they care? Why should they care if their names get thrown up here then?

If everyone did the "I'm next in line for gear so after that I'll be a straight shooter" We'd have a pretty fucked up server.

 

[Divinius]

I've read every word you wrote. And I do understand your opinion quite clearly. You disagree with my opinion that not every member of the shell should be held accountable. You, like many others on here, feel that every single person in that shell is JUST AS BAD as the leaders. My opinion is that, given the circumstances of coming from a server where this wasn't an issue, and being in a shell that they've put a substantial amount of effort into, I don't feel they should all be lumped together like that.

I'm not asking you to share my opinion, it's quite clear that you don't. At this point, I'm just trying to get you to UNDERSTAND my opinion (even if you continue to disagree with it), but based on everything you've been writing, it's also quite clear that you can't do that either.

How the fuck does that work? In that case let me join Absolution for a while till I get my E body, then I promise I'll think botting is bad.

Nice attempt at an analogy. But this is a bad one, and here's why: Unlike your example, where you chose to join a shell you already knew did something bad, just to get your stuff and then bail, these people didn't "just join" a shell they knew was "bad". When they joined the shell, and for the past SEVEN FUCKING YEARS, that shell wasn't doing anything wrong. Now, all of a sudden, according to the "rules" of this server, they are. You are asking, and actually expecting (which is the screwed-up part), everyone in this situation to just up and revolt against their shell because of these new and arbitrary "rules" of this new server. Can you honestly not see the difference there? Even if you still have the opinion that, "yes, they are still all scumbags and should be ostracized," I find it difficult to believe that you can't even see why it might possibly not be that cut-and-dry for everyone.

Like Sama said, once this concept becomes more mainstream (give it a while, and continue the gentle persistence), I'm sure everything will eventually fall back to the level of conformity this server is used to. All I'm suggesting is that people try not to be too harsh in the process. I want this to work as much as you do.

 

[jyakotsu]

I've read every word you wrote. And I do understand your opinion quite clearly. You disagree with my opinion that not every member of the shell should be held accountable. You, like many others on here, feel that every single person in that shell is JUST AS BAD as the leaders. My opinion is that, given the circumstances of coming from a server where this wasn't an issue, and being in a shell that they've put a substantial amount of effort into, I don't feel they should all be lumped together like that.

I'm not asking you to share my opinion, it's quite clear that you don't. At this point, I'm just trying to get you to UNDERSTAND my opinion (even if you continue to disagree with it), but based on everything you've been writing, it's also quite clear that you can't do that either.



Nice attempt at an analogy. But this is a bad one, and here's why: Unlike your example, where you chose to join a shell you already knew did something bad, just to get your stuff and then bail, these people didn't "just join" a shell they knew was "bad". When they joined the shell, and for the past SEVEN FUCKING YEARS, that shell wasn't doing anything wrong. Now, all of a sudden, according to the "rules" of this server, they are. You are asking, and actually expecting (which is the screwed-up part), everyone in this situation to just up and revolt against their shell because of these new and arbitrary "rules" of this new server. Can you honestly not see the difference there? Even if you still have the opinion that, "yes, they are still all scumbags and should be ostracized," I find it difficult to believe that you can't even see why it might possibly not be that cut-and-dry for everyone.

Like Sama said, once this concept becomes more mainstream (give it a while, and continue the gentle persistence), I'm sure everything will eventually fall back to the level of conformity this server is used to. All I'm suggesting is that people try not to be too harsh in the process. I want this to work as much as you do.

What is sad is that you assume that I do not understand your Q.Q.

The thing is, if Midgard is so unhappy with the merge. They aren't forced to stay on this server, they can do what people had to do prior to the merge... pay 25 dollars and go somewhere else...

If you don't want to sign up with the forum here and do dynamis scheduling, whether or not you are with a shell that likes to or not... that is your call. Expect your name to be tagged here as someone who doesn't want to listen to QCDN. WHICH shouldn't matter to you, because you don't post here anyways.

If you wanted to be hospitable, then post here saying "i'm sorry my shell's name is such and such we don't post on QCDN." I bet alot more people would respect you than if you openly keep with a shell that doesn't regard what a majority of NA shells do on this server.

I mean if a bunch of midgard shells already joined QCDN and help out by posting, do you think you are above the majority to not post? Like I said, you could be the one taht posts for your shell instead of being a blind sheep. Food for thought...

 

[Wagewar47]

You are asking, and actually expecting (which is the screwed-up part), everyone in this situation to just up and revolt against their shell because of these new and arbitrary "rules" of this new server.

Well this "new server" has been in existence "for the past SEVEN FUCKING YEARS" as well and during that time accepted practices like the Dynamis Scheduling have been established to try and help all Dynamis groups. This sense of entitlement of "We are from Midgard and we'll do whatever the f*ck we want. Screw your Quetz scheduling." is one of the things I personally have had a problem with from a few of Midgard Imports.

Divinius, I understand the points you are making and respect the fact that you wouldn't hold everyone responsible. However in a situation I'm close to, when "Quetz Dynashell A" informs "Former Midgard Dynashell B" that there is a scheduling forum in place and "Former Midgard Dynashell B" preceeds to basically say f*off and then over the course on the next month enters a zone you scheduled 4 more times, I don't think it's out of line to /blist all the members of that shell, their brothers, their parents, and their uncle Jimmy Jack with the glass eye.

An individual is a reflection of the company he/she keeps and if the leadership of the shell subscribes to the "We are from Midgard and we'll do whatever the f*ck we want. Screw your Quetz scheduling." mentality, there is no reason to think the individual does not subscribe to that same mentality not only in Dynamis, but in other elements of FFXI as well and should be avoided whenever possible. And this is not specific to just former Midgard's, its applicable to all.

I can't wait 'til I come back. I'm getting angry again thinking about it now.

 

[Divinius]

What is sad is that you assume that I do not understand your Q.Q.

No assumptions necessary. You've repeatedly proven in your posts that you don't understand my points.

Also, I'm not the one crying. It's the people lamenting over how "all the big bad Midgard people don't want to play fair" that are the ones QQing. I'm simply frustrated by how utterly narrow-minded a few of you are being.

The thing is, if Midgard is so unhappy with the merge. They aren't forced to stay on this server, they can do what people had to do prior to the merge... pay 25 dollars and go somewhere else.

Another common response I've seen regarding the forced merge. True, people can switch servers. People can quit the game. People can do a lot of things, including simply ignoring the stuff they don't like on this server, like the scheduling system. That last case is an unfortunate one, but it's just as viable an option to those that are unhappy.

But please, don't lump me in with the others who have posted in this thread and others spewing bile over the server merge. I challenge you to find a post where I said I hated this server, and hated that they merged us. The only things I've ever complained about were 1) the way SE merged the servers, and in that, only specifically regarding the loss of many of our character's names to long abandoned mules, and 2) the very few and far between Quetz people that have chosen to condemn all Midgard players based on the actions of a very few of us. And regarding that second one, I'm certainly sure that there's a few Midgard people that could be accused acting the same way toward Quetz people, and I'd feel the same way about those. I will never understand why someone would give a flying crap which server someone was originally from, now that we are all here together.

If you don't want to sign up with the forum here and do dynamis scheduling, whether or not you are with a shell that likes to or not... that is your call. Expect your name to be tagged here as someone who doesn't want to listen to QCDN. WHICH shouldn't matter to you, because you don't post here anyways.

I'm not disputing any of that, and I never have. All good points.

If you wanted to be hospitable, then post here saying "i'm sorry my shell's name is such and such we don't post on QCDN." I bet alot more people would respect you than if you openly keep with a shell that doesn't regard what a majority of NA shells do on this server.

LOL. You know as well as I do that if a shell leader posted something like that on here, they would get torn to shreds. And I think that expecting lower shell members to post "apologies" on here because they are stuck in a shell that doesn't use the system is still using a "guilty until proven innocent" approach, which I disagree with. I'd admit to having more respect for them for doing so, but judging by the opinions I've seen in this thread, they would most likely just end up getting ripped to shreds as well.

Like I said, you could be the one taht posts for your shell instead of being a blind sheep. Food for thought...

Offering that option to their leaders is great, but that doesn't mean the leaders will agree. And you can't logically expect a lower member of a shell to actually be able to post the schedules for their shell (if that shell's leaders don't want to use the system) without the leader's knowledge. Besides, for all you know, some of the people who's names have been brought up in this thread (and labeled as "zone-jackers") could have actually tried this, and to no avail. Doesn't matter, because they are still screwed because they got lumped in anyway.

 

[Divinius]

Well this "new server" has been in existence "for the past SEVEN FUCKING YEARS" as well and during that time accepted practices like the Dynamis Scheduling have been established to try and help all Dynamis groups. This sense of entitlement of "We are from Midgard and we'll do whatever the f*ck we want. Screw your Quetz scheduling." is one of the things I personally have had a problem with from a few of Midgard Imports.

Divinius, I understand the points you are making and respect the fact that you wouldn't hold everyone responsible. However in a situation I'm close to, when "Quetz Dynashell A" informs "Former Midgard Dynashell B" that there is a scheduling forum in place and "Former Midgard Dynashell B" preceeds to basically say f*off and then over the course on the next month enters a zone you scheduled 4 more times, I don't think it's out of line to /blist all the members of that shell, their brothers, their parents, and their uncle Jimmy Jack with the glass eye.

An individual is a reflection of the company he/she keeps and if the leadership of the shell subscribes to the "We are from Midgard and we'll do whatever the f*ck we want. Screw your Quetz scheduling." mentality, there is no reason to think the individual does not subscribe to that same mentality not only in Dynamis, but in other elements of FFXI as well and should be avoided whenever possible. And this is not specific to just former Midgard's, its applicable to all.

I can't wait 'til I come back. I'm getting angry again thinking about it now.

Heh. See? This is a good example. "This server" has actually not been around for 7 years. You are still thinking (as many people seem to be) that Midgard people are like immigrants to your country. This is the type of thinking that causes the problems.

Midgardsormr no longer exists. However, whether the people of Quetz choose to accept it or not, Quetzalcoatl no longer exists either.

As of that day (March 22nd, I think?), this server became a combination of the two servers. It became a new entity. Sure, it has the same name, and the people that were on the old Quetz server had the luxury of not having to worry about name changes and their linkshells imploding. But Quetzalcoatl as you knew it died that day, the same as Midgardsormr did. What we are left with is a new server, only a couples months old, comprised of people from both of the old ones. That's simply the way it is, like it or not.

 

[Divinius]

Sorry for the triple post. I hate that you can't edit posts on this board (though I understand the reasoning behind it).

I meant to only quote the first sentence of your post, Wage. I have no issues with the latter paragraphs of your post, and I can understand why you don't feel the way I do. That would frustrate the piss out of me too.

I would suggest however that you view it more as: "We are from Midgard and we'll do what we are used to," rather than, "We are from Midgard and we'll do whatever the f*ck we want." The difference is subtle, but it's there. I'm not justiying their actions by any means, simply playing devil's advocate.

 

[Elizara]

Also little midgard history for you guys. I can't say WHEN this was, but I heard some 'scut from a itty bitty shell run by a friend (that was having a dispute on Midgard with my first dyn shell, which I do not wish to name at this time. I'll just say I left that shell over some drama/friend nearly getting screwed and have never looked back; if you want gory details ask me privately in game and keep your trap shut after about it, please. Stinky dead horses need to rot/stink in peace.) that a calandar was actually TRIED on midgard. BUT! It did not work and was abandoned well before I started dynamis.

This may be why some shells are going "Ha Ha!" now. I was afraid this was going to happen when the merge happened; when two diff cultures meet there's bound to be arguments. (Let's just say my first dyn shell was the result of a merge, so I know how it can be.) And I mean the "rude" shells on midgard not following calendar. (Not all midgardian shells are rude though. Howitzer sure isn't.) Give it time and try to negotiate instead of fly off the handle. There's plenty of time for nasty if they are stubborn. It is no use if you chase off most of the midgardians when we got dumped here by force and then get merged with another server again..that might happen, I know Uni is like Midgard used to be right now, Nymphadora told me. If that continues, they might be next on the chopping block...

 

[jyakotsu]

Sorry for the triple post. I hate that you can't edit posts on this board (though I understand the reasoning behind it).

I meant to only quote the first sentence of your post, Wage. I have no issues with the latter paragraphs of your post, and I can understand why you don't feel the way I do. That would frustrate the piss out of me too.

I would suggest however that you view it more as: "We are from Midgard and we'll do what we are used to," rather than, "We are from Midgard and we'll do whatever the f*ck we want." The difference is subtle, but it's there. I'm not justiying their actions by any means, simply playing devil's advocate.

you can play devil's advocate all you'd like. The point still stands that this is Quetz, this is not Midgardsomr... this is not Quetzamidgard.... this is not midgardotl. You have to understand that.

If the roles were reversed, sure the dynamis scheduling would be abandoned. I am sure alot of things would have been abandoned from the server I used to call home. But the thing is that SE didn't do it that way. My friends that work for SE have said they based their merge on the amount of population in each of the merged servers. I.E. if a server has less prime time population than the other then they would be merged into the larger of the two servers. This has no bearing to the amount of characters are in each server... also minus the amount of gil sellers etc etc.

We have dynamis scheduling along with other things we have tried... I.E. Sky times, ZNM pop timers etc. The only one that stuck with our server was dynamis scheduling.... reasoning behind this is because it is an instanced zone which we are trying to help others so that they don't have to wait around for 3 hours wondering if someone would not jack them.

Point in making is the following div and I've repeated this several times like you stated you did as well. If the majority of Midgarders don't feel it necessary to log into QCDN and post their scheduling times so be it... but realize that they will have their names posted here. I guarantee if the members of said shell apologized for doing it, because their leaders didn't allow posting on QCDN , there might be initial repercussions from the masses... HOWEVER I guarantee they would be more accepted than those that openly disregard the forum altogether "Fuck quetz and their forums."

No one is required to post their schedule which is fine and dandy... BUT they have to realize that ALOT of people post here with schedules they make a month in advance. Think of it this way, there are about 15-20 shells posting their schedules here(that is lowballing it) With a minimum of 20 people per shell... Those that are deciding to forgo the forum are fucking over 400-500 people who take the time to post here, forgoing Xarcabards and dreamlands but 1-2 times a month rather than 8 times a month so that they can cooperate with others.

Now in your scenario, those that are next in line for gear in said "Fuck your scheduling system" shells.... do you think that it is right to fuck over 400-500 people in order to get gear? If you do then you should be labeled as a "Gear whore," and should have your name listed here. In all respect... well it is out of respect that people post here. Think about it, devil's advocate all you like... the point is still the same, they don't care about others(the entire shells.. including the "lowly" members) they are as much to blame as all the others. If one lowly member steps out and says we should post on their forum to make it fair for the entire server, then at least they can say they tried. But my best educated guess is that they don't, because they are gear whores.

 

[Tristam Green]

I also don't understand why Tristam cares so much about what goes on in a game he no longer plays. Could some one please explain this to me? I mean, I can understand that you may still have buddies from your playing days. But if you no longer play, how can your opinion be worth anything?

I care because I'm on-staff here, because I played for five years, and because plenty of my friends still play. Nice to meet you, by the way. My opinion about the game is pretty worthless, but then again, the opinion of any single player at any given is worthless. It's only when players collectively speak to developers that anything, if anything gets done, or changed, that isn't a normal "job balance".

p.s. Going out on a limb here and guess Tristam is a dude. If you have a va-jay-jay, no hard feelings.

Cock and balls, check. I don't understand why this matters, though...

Also calling people from Midgard, Miggers. Completely tasteless.

Samaire, meet Myrrh. Myrrh, whatever. This is Samaire.




To the rest of you (jyakotsu, Divinius, I'm glaring over my glasses at you): get the fuck back on topic, and stop going in circles.

 

[jyakotsu]

I care because I'm on-staff here, because I played for five years, and because plenty of my friends still play. Nice to meet you, by the way. My opinion about the game is pretty worthless, but then again, the opinion of any single player at any given is worthless. It's only when players collectively speak to developers that anything, if anything gets done, or changed, that isn't a normal "job balance".



Cock and balls, check. I don't understand why this matters, though...



Samaire, meet Myrrh. Myrrh, whatever. This is Samaire.




To the rest of you (jyakotsu, Divinius, I'm glaring over my glasses at you): get the fuck back on topic, and stop going in circles.

I'm fucking tired of idiots bitching about being bitched at when they don't follow what the majority of the server has strived to do. People like that are what cause others to bot, people like that are what cause others to ninja lot. It isn't a "written rule" to ninja lot or to lot everything in a dynamis run either you know.

 

[Raesvelg]

To expand on what Jyak was saying, and pose a hypothetical situation:

If someone was in your shell, and ninja-lotted whatever pieces they wanted, whenever they wanted, and justified it by saying "well, in my last shell any piece could be lotted by any member at any time you wanted", how would you react?

This is basically the same situation, with a significant difference in scale.

 

[Divinius]

To the rest of you (jyakotsu, Divinius, I'm glaring over my glasses at you): get the fuck back on topic, and stop going in circles.

You are right, this whole thing is just going in circles. I'm rapidly running out of ways to say the same things, and there's no point in continuing to try anyway.

Any Quetz person that still believes "This is our server, and the Midgard people are the outsiders!" is never going to agree with the people that want to think of this server as a new, joint one, and is hence going to base all their opinions around that.

So there's nothing more I can say in this thread, and I'll leave it to the rest of you. Fun debate, but it's gone far past being tired and old.

Godspeed.

 

[delphin]

</wave> Divinius

Another week, another zone taken. Tonight it's Dynamis - Windurst. Acqeo, Athial, Dinochi, Harliquinn, Jslug, Junbug, Kiras, Kiyame, Markers, Natimb, Nizmovspec, Nugglet, Okamura, Proserpina, Radon, Razmuz, Template, Tishalulle, Toofless, Vigilant, Zalus.

As always, feel free to post your own lists. I know DH isn't the only shell this is happening to.

 

[Chisei]

</wave> Divinius

Another week, another zone taken. Tonight it's Dynamis - Windurst. Acqeo, Athial, Dinochi, Harliquinn, Jslug, Junbug, Kiras, Kiyame, Markers, Natimb, Nizmovspec, Nugglet, Okamura, Proserpina, Radon, Razmuz, Template, Tishalulle, Toofless, Vigilant, Zalus.

As always, feel free to post your own lists. I know DH isn't the only shell this is happening to.

Meet NewDynamix, perpetual thorn in UtterChaos' side. They've actually jacked several of our runs. Falls into the 'Yeah, we know about QCDN, just don't care' category. Good luck dealing with them in the future.