Everyone has a Peacock Charm.

[Peregrine]

Gil hunters play middle man. You keep PCC's away from the people who would otherwise be down there and distribute them to idiots who pay that much. Then you get that much and you become the idiots who pay too much.

Gihunting inflates the econ. It's really beyond question. So does AH fishing. If I didn't buy all those webs and mark them up, some crafter would be able to buy them for less instead of being forced to buy from me or wait. I don't use the webs. I don't use threads. I don't use cloth. I don't use the things made from the cloth. I just take a cut, and just by doing so I inflate every single piece of armor that has something to do with rainbow thread.

The difference between me and an argus camper WAS that you could go out and literally have all the spiders you could possibly kill without competition, while argus was camped by "professionals" who kept him away from "average" people 24/7.

You all don't have to understand these grown-up principles. SE'll do it for you.

 

[meeze]

problem is, no one really camped down there. they showed up at random times, stuck around a few hours and left.

selling a rare piece of equipment for more than the average player can afford is not inflation.

slime oil going from 6k-20k is inflation.

rabbit hides going from 300g-4k is inflation.

coca cola can going from 25 cents to 85 cents is inflation.

Barry Bonds home run ball going for 1mil not inflation.

 

[Raivyn]

I'm not ignoring them. You're just not worth my time.

Translation: I am ignoring them, what of it?

Starting to think Peregrine is a woman.

 

[Peregrine]

Come on now...it was camped. That there weren't people down there at times makes no difference. It's beyond dispute that behavior like this causes inflation to an economy. Every deal with a middleman causes inflation. Some deals are simply worse offenders than others, and Argus was a full-blown economic breach. Not only did it pander to people who do nothing but bot and whore gil nonstop, but it pandered to people who bought turbo controllers and second accounts and multiple computers and "business partners." What they should really be called is rackets. By preying off the idiotically rich through argus, you became idiotically rich yourself and began acting like the idiotically rich. Charm sellers have tainted gil in their inbox. Just as the padded cap NPC seller thought it was their right to sell caps...their "work" and "effort" that shouldn't be taken away, Square has to fix the breaches that have to be fixed. Argus was no different. It goes beyond camping. Beyond abuse even. Argus was an exploit and was fixed as such.

Gil distribution is part of a normal economy, but when the gap gets too large it's a huge problem. Separation of wealth is not healthy economics, and it RAGES in this economy. They cannot let the average player sink into obscurity and insignificance. It is not an option regardless of what you think you're still entitled to.

Find something else to make gil off of. There are several other ways. They just don't have the exploitative payout that argus had. That every other multimillionaire abused argus at some point in their career is enough reason to cut the bleed off.

 

[Peregrine]

Again, the price of silk thread is an INDEX of inflation.
Argus was a CAUSE of inflation.

 

[hellstorm]

Peregrine hit it right in the nose.

 

[meeze]

Again, the price of silk thread is an INDEX of inflation.
Argus was a CAUSE of inflation.

thats like saying ferrari's cause inflation. they are a luxury, only the rich will purchase. you can argue for LB and EP causing inflation which would explain why farmable goods went up, but you will have a hard time convincing me that beehive chip farmers saved up 20 mil by charging more for their chips.

 

[FortressPalm]

...Not only did it pander to people who do nothing but bot and whore gil nonstop, but it pandered to people who bought turbo controllers and second accounts and multiple computers and "business partners."...

So people who want to make their own gil with their own real money suddenly contribute to the obstruction of your obsession with fantasy wealth? Why isn't this just good practice for rich people who want to play the game differently from you? Or why isn't it just good practicality to acquire business partners in gil-making? Personally, I save quite a bit when I work on my crafts with people I know. Does that help inflate the server? I think not.

 

[hellstorm]

Do you even understand what inflation is?

1) The act of inflating or the state of being inflated.
2) A persistent increase in the level of consumer prices or a persistent decline in the purchasing power of money, caused by an increase in available currency and credit beyond the proportion of available goods and services.

SE thinks cut off the head money makers down go currency people will have to actally go hunt for the item instead of buying gil and camper will have to get bc to be able to sell. So item might actually come more elusive then it was before but camper will have to find new mob.

Judging from the wording of this compared to your previous posts, I’m guessing that you’ve just cut and paste this, but hopefully you’ve at least read it while you were pasting it. (and we’re using the second definition here, the first refers to inflating balloons)

Inflation isn’t just prices rising, it’s the loss of purchasing power of money. In FFXI this is caused by having more money coming into the server than is leaving the server.

Money Coming into Server
- Money from killing mobs
- Money from selling items to NPC’s
- Quest Rewards

SE has been making these harder over a period of time. Mob drops and Quest rewards haven’t changed, but the major source of money coming in was selling items to NPC’s. Fish bots farmed fish 24/7 and sold almost exclusively to NPC’s creating huge quantities of gil. Nearly all the changes to fishing (making it more difficult to catch fish over items, nerfing the NPC costs of fish, nerfing the costs of items to NPC’s like padded caps) have been to reduce the huge amounts of gil created

Money Leaving the Server
- Buying Items from NPC’s
- AH/Bazaar Fees

Again SE has been introducing incentives to remove money from the economy. Introducing Guild points means a lot more useless items are being bought from NPCs. AH fees were increased, and high price items (eg Vir Subligar) are introduced to both increase supply of items and to remove gil from the server.


Me buying a PCC from another player doesn’t have any effect on the amount of gil on the server, no matter how much I pay, and has no effect on inflation. No gil is being cereated or lost. The increasing price for the PCC had been caused by an increased demand (more players with enough money to buy one) and a constant demand (2-4 Charms a week being created).

Now the way to reduce the prices is to either reduce demand by adding a comparable or better item, or to increase supply by introducing them onto the server more often. The same number of Rare/ex versions are available from the Maze as before. The BC is now available too, and it’s not that hard to get one there so supply has definitely increased by a large margin.

What’s been the result on PCC prices? 25 million before patch…. <10 million now. But it has nothing to do with inflation. It's Supply/demand.

And gilsellers who camp NMs have nothing to do with inflation either... (unless they sell to NPCs). In fact, gil sellers have been keeping prices down on Quetz. It's almost always real players who cause prices to rise.

If you want to do something about a problem, you need to have at least some idea what's causing the problem, and so far SE seems to have a much better idea than most players...

come on are you really that blind.
yes fish bots cause some inflation, but items like this which where monopolized where the main cause of inflation; because just like you said supply and demand. if you have only 1 or 2 supplyers though 2 can charge any amount that they want, and the consumer would have to buy at that price. Then you have the elitist (though who have been here for long time and set on top saying people are gimped if they dont have "said item"). According to the begining of the thread a 60 thf that dont have a sh is gimped. so though people who monopolize serket so that people cant get the Venomous Claw which is the most important part of the synthesis are a cause of inflation. 1 person or a group of people (currently the gil seller ls that colbwa with) get said money for that item. Which they turn around and sell back to the people that bought the item in the frist place. Now you going to respond "well you can get claw in a bcnm 60". Are you going to sit there, and tell me; that you are not going to sell it at the price that the price history that the gil sellers established. I think not you would be a fool to. Which is why i dont think SE making the items a bcnm will help, but what did help was making the item like it that was exclusive. Only problem is you can mule it so it always siting in your mog house when you are not using it (with all your other exclusive item). Get kinda cramped at times. If the person was camping just to get a item then that not hurting inflation because he is the one using the item, but there are people who sit and camp nm for 24/7 that know exactly when, where, how, that mob will spawn and allow no one else to get. You going to repond well anyone can CC. that true, but what are the chances of that cross camper of getting it (1/10, 1/30, 1/100) lets take the archer ring for example ( im sure you all remember them dont you.) at said time there where atleast 2 gil seller syndicates and a handful of though there to actually get it for use. How many time did you get the chyme? maybe 1/10 times. So that whole cc thing is bs because the cc is handicaped even before the nm spawns.

on lavi I love your post can actually feel the flame coming from the screen

 

[hellstorm]

on anouther note it funny vang you bring up just the pcc and not the LL boots, or the emp pin, or archer ring.

 

[Skaw]

Supply and Demand doesn't not directly cause inflation, a rare item does not influence the individual buying power of Gil. What causes inflation is people obtaining more gil than whats exiting the server(destruction through travel expenses, taxes, purchasing through npcs..)

The guild point system doesn't remove gil from the server, but rather materials. So it doesn't affect the balance of the economy, but rather availability of items.

 

[vang]

I brought up pin on many occasions. Just not in this thread. VE was easy gil for me and I was good. Argus was gil if I needed alot at one time. Leaping Lizzy had shitty drop rates so I could care less about her, I only camped her for sport.

Archer Ring was a joke. You would have to be a gilseller or an idiot to camp that constantly. Drop rate was pathetic.

 

[Braydon]

Supply and Demand doesn't not directly cause inflation, a rare item does not influence the individual buying power of Gil. What causes inflation is people obtaining more gil than whats exiting the server(destruction through travel expenses, taxes, purchasing through npcs..)

Your just saying it differently, Supply and demand are the forces that create inflation and deflation.Creating more gil without a equal creation of materials causes inflation due to the increase in demand. The more gil out there, demand will force the price up across the board, hence creating inflation

 

[TiyaKelth]

LOL Pere, you're a joke.

I caused the problems with the economy by selling PCC's, eh? I'll admit that I used inflation to my benefit, but me having more gil than you definately does not cause for inflation. I took way more gil out of the economy (and buried it with my character - Sorry Vang) than I put into the economy. You see, I didn't sell my PCC's to NPC's, and hence get gil out of thin air. The gil that I recieved for selling PCC's was already in the economy, and already all belonged to one person (if he bought the gil from IGE, so be it - *cough*Eternalguardian*cough*). The gil just becomes mine instead of the other persons. As far as I know, that didn't cause prices to suddenly shoot up on everything. If seperating gil from its original owner and giving it to a new one caused inflation like you say, then the whole AH is flawed. Every item that sells for a good amount should be rare/ex. Of course you'd be happy with that, until you realised that getting the items still required work.


As far as Argus being an exploit and thats why they fixed it... Then I guess camping VE and LL was also considered cheating? How about Hoo Mjuu, Mee Deegi, and all the others unnerfed? Are they all considered "exploiting" the game too? And why weren't they nerfed too if that was the case?

Or do you sleep better at night thinking that everyone who has more gil than you ingame cheated to get that gil? You're starting to sound like WSM now.

 

[meeze]

quotes are from hellstorms post.

if you have only 1 or 2 supplyers though 2 can charge any amount that they want, and the consumer would have to buy at that price.

that explains the price on PCC going up, not inflation on the whole server. the majority of items are farmed by many people.

You going to repond well anyone can CC. that true, but what are the chances of that cross camper of getting it (1/10, 1/30, 1/100) lets take the archer ring for example ( im sure you all remember them dont you.) at said time there where atleast 2 gil seller syndicates and a handful of though there to actually get it for use. How many time did you get the chyme? maybe 1/10 times. So that whole cc thing is bs because the cc is handicaped even before the nm spawns.

people weren't born with the ability to know when the NM's spawn, they learn them. also, if you couldn't beat the gil sellers in Ordelle's caves you are worthless as a claimer. when i would help my LS with RSE there i could claim about 70% of the pops down there. its very easy, you just have to learn the pop times.

of course you are going to be handicapped the first few times you camp, but if you have half a brain you learn pop times on PHs if there are any at all, how big a window within the window is, and how long you have between windows.

do you see what i just wrote? i don't even camp nm's i lose what little attention span i have when i am sitting there waiting. i'm 1/1 on VE, 0/5 on JJE, 0/4 on LL, etc. not a very impressing list for someone who has been playing a long time. but i still know what it takes to get claim on NM's. i can probably go to an NM and out claim 99% of the server because i took the time to learn some very simple things about camping nm's. meanwhile retards show up at the camp and spam for 2-5 hours while i smoke a cig and drink my sprite.

though who have been here for long time and set on top saying people are gimped if they dont have "said item"

everyone says we are saying you are gimp without a PCC. one time for everyone. WE NEVER SAID YOU ARE GIMP WITHOUT A PCC.

 

[Skaw]

Supply and Demand doesn't not directly cause inflation, a rare item does not influence the individual buying power of Gil. What causes inflation is people obtaining more gil than whats exiting the server(destruction through travel expenses, taxes, purchasing through npcs..)

Your just saying it differently, Supply and demand are the forces that create inflation and deflation.Creating more gil without a equal creation of materials causes inflation due to the increase in demand. The more gil out there, demand will force the price up across the board, hence creating inflation

You cannot compare how something works in this game to how commerce works in real life. Dollars are not printed out constantly. There is only so much real currency in circulation, where as gil is constantly flowed into the game, with very little means of controlling how much is intruduced.

For every person in real life that has a lot of money, theres someone who doesn't. For every person in MMOs that has a lot of money, that doesn't necessarily mean theres someone with none.

The more gil around, the more everyone will be willing to spend. The more dollars a person has, the more they are willing to spend, but not everyone else.

 

[Darkdante]

Say you have a world were everybody is a millionaire, and their wealth increases outragously everyday.

This would logically mean that this world would have massive inflation compared to our world.

Now say this world in comparision to ours is populated by all frugal and intelligent people who are not willing to pay one red cent more than an item is worth. Much unlike the idiots in our world.

Do you think they'd have more inflation in thier world or ours?

Making wise decisions plays a huge role in the economy but its a fantasy to believe even most people can do it. Should that stop people from trying to educate others? I hope not.

 

[Braydon]

You cannot compare how something works in this game to how commerce works in real life. Dollars are not printed out constantly. There is only so much real currency in circulation, where as gil is constantly flowed into the game, with very little means of controlling how much is intruduced.

While it is controlled, there is allways new currency flowing into the market in the real world. The Fed just controls demand through the intrest rates. If we didn't put new capital into the market, we would have rampant deflation.

For every person in real life that has a lot of money, theres someone who doesn't. For every person in MMOs that has a lot of money, that doesn't necessarily mean theres someone with none.

But it does. Gil doesn't fall from trees. Someone must go out and create it though some sort of labor. You have to do somthing for it, and even though someone may trade it for RL currency, that doesn't make that trade any diffrent that trading for a scrop harness.

The more gil around, the more everyone will be willing to spend. The more dollars a person has, the more they are willing to spend, but not everyone else.

Again, not true. If it is somthin you need, you will up your price. Look at Gas, did everyone stop buying it? No, they need it, they buy it. Some may look for diffrent solutions such as hybrids and public transport, but the same is true in the game. If somthing is too expensive, people find alternatives.

 

[Skaw]

Again, not true. If it is somthin you need, you will up your price. Look at Gas, did everyone stop buying it? No, they need it, they buy it. Some may look for diffrent solutions such as hybrids and public transport, but the same is true in the game. If somthing is too expensive, people find alternatives.

Gas is a commodity though. We're talking about luxuries.

 

[meeze]

braydon, gil buyers don't know how to make gil, therefore would never buy anything of value if not for gil sellers. that 5 mil they spent on SH would never of existed if they, and people like them, never paid IGE.

do you think IGE would have gil farmers if there wasn't a market. No IGE=a whole lot of gimp ass people seeking parties. without IGE many people would not be able to afford anything in this game. prices on things would go down without IGE because all the idiots with a credit card standing AH would get denied.

that gil would not exist on our server if not for people buying it. it is obvious they are too dumb to farm it.