Failure Rates

PS: we're talking about 2 claims at once here. EA and bestbuy talking about their numbers via their replacement plans. And Fox News independently declaring 2.5 million dead 360s.

Hmm.. Microsoft posting a 1 billion dollar loss for this term as a result of extending their warranties?

Let's do some math here...?

1,000,000,000
/
400

2,500,000

Wow that's 2.5 million assuming that Microsoft is paying $400 for every unit that's defective.

That's assuming they give people new units, not fix and cycle back out the broken ones... which they do... and costs them at MOST the $140 they charge customers.

Let's do some new math here.

7.1 million repairs?

I guess they estimate the other 7.5 million aren't all going to make it to the end of the finish line.
 
Firestreak said:
If we agree it's in the 25-33% range there's nothing to disagree on. I agreed that there'd be a bias on the poll towards people voting who have 360 problems and people with fine 360s to avoid the poll.

On the other hand I think you were one of the dumbasses defending their 3-5% industry standard declaration.

I knew it was much higher ever since EA said half of their devkits fucking broke.
Click to expand...
I've said this like 3 times now, but it doesn't seem to sink in. Maybe Bolding would help.

NO ONE EVER SAID THAT MICROSOFT'S NUMBERS WERE CORRECT, ONLY THAT THEY WERE ABSOLUTELY NO WHERE NEAR THE 60% THAT YOU WERE CLAIMING.

Firestreak(lol first grade drop out), please learn to both read, AND retain.
 
This is a dumb thing to keep circling around. I talked about the poll that showed 60% failure rate. I agreed it had a bias that will draw people who have failures to do the survey and others to ignore it. I merely threw it out there to talk about how severe the problem is to counter people claiming the 360 had no problem and as far as they were concerned, as long as their 360s didn't brake they assumed the 3-5% was correct.

Maybe it wasn't YOU saying that, but please don't waste time and claim nobody was defending the 3-5% claim. (I'm pretty sure at least Strid was.) Maybe you didn't personally think it was MS' claim, though you seem to have trouble accepting the 2.5 mill now, but you're like one of the 5+ people I've been arguing with at once.
 
Skaw said:
You're missing the point. They aren't being broken at the stores. They aren't defects because of mishandelling from the retailer. Here, retailers offer an additional warranty, for a fee, ofcourse. These are virtually infallible, and cover any excuse you can possibly come up with. Even if the system isn't broken, you can return it to the store and walk right out with a new one sealed in a box. Shit, I don't know about Gamestop, maybe Lanian could shed a bit of light on it - But Best Buy allows you to trade in your purchase for a newer model(which, I will be doing when the new hardware stuffs go in effect,) paying only the difference(if applicable,) if you have their additional warranty. How many people do you think upgraded their premiums to elites through this method?

These all get lumped in to a "Returned due to defects" category at these stores.
Click to expand...

When I was a manager at GameStop, we didn't allow full upgrades like that if you had the warranty. What we did do was boost in trade in credit if you put it towards an upgrade, like 360 to the elite. This created a flood of used 360s onto the market. The problem is some of those 360s that were traded in were 2 year old systems. They got traded in, sold again, and then brought back as defective within a couple months simply because it was much older.

The problem with this pole is that employees were never asked whether they were defecting out used, refurbished, or brand new, just the fact they put one into defective. That is why this poll is ridiculous of 'anonymous GameStop employees'. We used to cover any thing from small scratches to full on dropped down the stairs and broke into a couple pieces. The poll doesn't include user stupidity as well as used sales and returns.

And another thing, the idea behind the average PS3 owner being smarter than the average 360 owner. I wouldn't say this to be true, but I know damn well sure that people paying $600 are going to be a lot more careful than those paying 3 or 400.
 
Firestreak said:
Maybe it wasn't YOU saying that, but please don't waste time and claim nobody was defending the 3-5% claim. (I'm pretty sure at least Strid was.)
Click to expand...

No woman, I said this:

Strid said:
Something I find even more entertaining than the topic of this post is that people would still rather chance a 360 than buy a PS3.

(I have a bunch of these laying around so let's keep it up)
Click to expand...

I also said, about the claims of me being a dumbass for being some King Knight Defender of MS, mine isn't broken and it's had more use then most claims. I feel most people lied to get replacements for improper usage. Until mine breaks from just sitting here spinning discs, there is nothin' wrong with the majority of people's consoles... They (the owners) are the problem. I still feel this way and will forever do so no matter what Faux News tells me.

Note the usage of the word "feel". It doesn't stand for fact, the "real", or anything else you might like it to.

You can put all the words in our mouths you want but realize this... Everytime you try to call someone out you use things they didn't say. Maybe you generalize their thoughts for them, either way, it's still the same thing. You never "win" and are never right. Call us what you like but I'm fairly confident most people around here know who the idiot is. Afterall, most of us don't have to pull words out of anyones mouth for anything.

Now a suggestion. Instead of trying to bash people that have a different opinion than you, learn to accept we all have different views and angles on subjects. Learn how to carry on a debatable conversation without all of the insults and need to "win". You don't have to be right to others, you can throw out opinions that don't get turned into facts by the emotionally distressed, etc. It's really neat.
 
Last edited:
I'm talking about things you've said in previous threads not just today.

As far as Gamestop policies go, regardless, just do the math on the 10 million 360s out there and the 1 billion they're paying for extending the warranty from 1 to 3 years. That's saying they'll average $100 per Xbox by covering the X-boxes that may fail between year 1 and year 3. That's with sending out refurb replacements instead of just new models. When you consider they'll charge you $140 to fix that issue out of warranty, the failure rates really have to be staggering. Regardless of if yours personally didn't break.
 
The 3 year warranty extension may simply be Microsoft's response to negative press from people who THINK their failure rate really is like 30% or more. I wouldn't call it an outright admission that their failure rate must be astounding.

Regardless, we cannot possibly know the real failure rate of the systems because of the sheer number of false positives. Maybe the warranty extension really IS due to a high failure rate, I don't know, neither do you. Quit holding it like a badge of PS3's dominance, because all you're doing is looking like even more of a jackass in the issue.
 
Firestreak said:
I'm talking about things you've said in previous threads not just today.

As far as Gamestop policies go, regardless, just do the math on the 10 million 360s out there and the 1 billion they're paying for extending the warranty from 1 to 3 years. That's saying they'll average $100 per Xbox by covering the X-boxes that may fail between year 1 and year 3. That's with sending out refurb replacements instead of just new models. When you consider they'll charge you $140 to fix that issue out of warranty, the failure rates really have to be staggering. Regardless of if yours personally didn't break.
Click to expand...
All that math tells is that 2.5 million units were refurbished; it does not show that 2.5 million units were defective. They could have been broken due to negligence or just plain idiocy of the user, the repair price is the same. That's what everyone's been saying so far that you just can't seem to understand. Systems that break because of misuse or poor care do not add to the failure rate of the console.

A 30% failure rate should mean that if I buy a 360, then even if I live in a clean room and keep the 360 on a pedastal 3 feet above ground, 3 feet from anything around, and keep the AC going on high, that there's a 30% chance the 360 will break through no fault of my own. That's what failure rate is, breaking the console through your own stupidity or poor handling should not be included in those numbers.
 
Look let me explain what's going on here, since you're all going on and on in circles.

Xbox 360 Defense Squad: "The Gamestop's fail rates are inflated by false positives, Gamestop will accept returns if it has a scratch on it and it was caused by the user.

Firestreak: Then why is Microsoft going to spend 1 billion to cover 10 million machines from the year 1 to year 3 mark?

Then why do the same retailers have less then 1% rates on PS3 and Wii?

360 Defense Squad: PS3 users are going to take better care of their system better because it costs $600 and because of its other media capabilities.

Firestreak: Then shouldn't the system with the highest failure rate be the Wii with the lowest price tag and the least media options?

360 Defense Squad: This is just a response to the fictional belief that the 360 has a lot of defective units. The warranty being increased is only to increase consumer confidence, it doesn't mean the 360 is actually defective.

Firestreak: Then what is the billion dollars for? Microsoft is the only one who knows the 100% real failure rate, why did they just strike a billion dollars from their fiscal projections with this warranty increase?

360 Defense Squad: That 2.5 million statement was just Fox News sensationalizing to get attention.

Firestreak: Well why has the Microsoft owned news station, MS-NBC been blasting the PS3's sales and crying dead system even since its launch while its worldwide numbers have been consistantly better than 360 in the same time frame. Why wasn't the media crying "360 fail!" instead of giving it actual time to build up a software library and user base. Is the media really anti-Microsoft? Throughout Microsoft's lifetime how many illegal monopolistic moves has it made which only ended up on tech news websites because the mainstream didn't run any of those stories?

I think the real question is... why is the European commission investigating the 360, the press outside of the US running stories on the failure rates and disc scratching... and the US media didn't run anything for 18 months?


The reality is nothing will convince some people who prefer to live in a world of illusion.

First it's not possible because there'd be reports on it. Then the reports aren't true because they're just trying to get a news story. Forget EA saying their own company 360s fail at 50%. Forget retailers citing their own failure statistics. Forget Microsoft actually running out of boxing to ship the dead 360s. Forget repair companies refusing to do work on 360s. Forget offshore manufacturers in Asia confirming a 30% fail rate.

Claim it's user fault, ignore the other console's under 1%. Demand a failure rate of a 360 console in a clean room untouched by human hands with an A/C blowing at it 24/7 so it doesn't explode.

Then ignore your own failing systems, make threads about how exciting you are over yet another new skew regardless that the Elite skew made no effort to solve the problem, and say how excited you are to buy a new 360 now that your old one's mysteriously dead, probably one of the 3-5%, what bad luck!
 
Dude you are getting too upset;; 360 is a better GAME system then PS3 atm even with all the failures. Hell even if it was 60%, which its not. You cant take away the great games it has and has coming. Fire man one thing i do respect from you is you dont put that bs up like most ps3 fanboys "Oh just wait! PS3 is gonna own!" You may feel that way but at least you support it for what it has now, Blueray and whatnot. This is still pointless argument. 360 fails alot, ok. PS3 has no games yet, ok. Thats it fire dont get upset bud lol.
 
You left out this part that you've been saying all along:

Firestreak: There is no such thing as user error, any and all problems, even if cause by poor conditions or mishandling are Microsoft's fault. Everyone always treats their consoles well and makes sure they are in a properly ventilated location; there's no possible way that someone could ever break a 360 on their own.

You're still acting like anyone doesn't agree that the 360 has the largest failure rate of all of the consoles, and that's why you're continuing to look like a fool.
 
I'm not upset, just don't like people in total denial over the failure rate.

Think the failure rate is worth the library? Fine with me. I just don't like people making up every BS excuse they can think of to cover the shit up. All that really matters in the end is a personal choice of what people are willing to spend their money on and people should know an honest failure rate so they can make up their own mind.
 
Firestreak said:
I'm not upset, just don't like people in total denial over the failure rate.

Think the failure rate is worth the library? Fine with me. I just don't like people making up every BS excuse they can think of to cover the shit up. All that really matters in the end is a personal choice of what people are willing to spend their money on and people should know an honest failure rate so they can make up their own mind.
Click to expand...
NO ONE IS COVERING IT UP, NO ONE HAS DENIED, EVER, THAT THE 360 HAS A HUGE FAILURE RATE. No one's even covering up the huge failure rate, the only thing that's been said is that it's not that big because those returns are including operator error. Oh no, it's only a 20% failure rate, not 25-30%, it's totally safe now!

You're acting like that's the actual failure rate, it'd be sad if it wasn't so funny.
 
You seem to have this image in your head of the average 360 owner using his machine as some sort of bludgeoning instrument when he can't find his hammer around. Sure maybe some guys keep their shit poorly ventilated. Maybe some guys don't have enough air conditioner in their room. I'm sure the exact same conditions are applied to PS3s, Wiis, PS2s, PS1s, N64s, Gamecubes, Nintendos, Super Nintendos, Segas and Dreamcasts. It's called... you know, the world? Being as these systems aren't being made for hospital clean rooms but actual use by actual people, most of whom are idiots, they should probably be built in such a manner that ordinary wear and tear doesn't kill them in the millions.

Which systems fail because it explodes for no reason? Which system doesn't start up because the guy forgot to turn his air conditioner up? Who knows? Who cares? Real world numbers, if you're the average consumer that's the average fail rate.
 
That just means the 360 is less durable, that's all. That's due to Microsoft rushing the units to production, PS3 and Wii had another year to iron out the design for idiots. That's still not a defective unit, only the system wasn't designed to deal with idiots as much as the competition.

If it blows up for no reason, that's a defect. If it blows up because you wedged it in a corner on the carpet, that's your own dumb fault; not a defect.
 
its worldwide numbers have been consistantly better than 360 in the same time frame.
Click to expand...

and worldwide the Wii is beating the PS2 in the same time frame.
 
And I've never downplayed the Wii's success or predicted eventual doom for it. If anything I have more faith in the Wii's success than the average nintendo fanboy, because I think the developers don't give a fuck and the games are shitty. Considering it's smoking all the competition in the state it's in, and considering I think the devs could be doing much better if they actually tried, I expect enormous success when they actually do. Wake me up then, until then I couldn't care less what casual gamers buy in droves.

Alternatively, I have less faith in Microsoft's success this generation, but I've never once bashed their games, because their software devs actually do give a shit.
 
Oh, I'm totally certain Wii's lineup will improve dramatically in 2008.

For the record I do agree the majority of Wii's lineup is fairly crap, it really is evident that the devs threw most of their stuff together using rehashed GameCube engines just so they'd have titles (Ubisoft is the most guilty company by far). Wii's runaway explosion of unparalleled proportions surely garnered some huge mindshare from many developers who were either unsold or skeptical about the system pre-launch.

The first wave of post-launch games should arrive early/mid 2008, and that's when the sparks will fly... but this year at least we'll have Nintendo's Big Three to look forward to... SSB:Brawl is one of the most hotly anticipated console games ever.
 
No More Heroes is coming out at the end of this year. In Japan atleast. But since the dialogue is English with Japanese subtitles, I'd say it'll be simultaneous. Possibly even NA first.
 
Firestreak said:
I'm talking about things you've said in previous threads not just today.
Click to expand...

I repeat myself, a lot when I write to you. It would be wise of you to note this.

No More Heroes is going to own more than Killer 7 did.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top