For All Debts Public And Private

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Proof seems somewhat redundant since she basically admitted to it? And isn't the basic premises (well.... what it should be) of the flame board to inform the QCDN community of wrong doings so they DON'T happen again? How many people who would of let Mish have thier account info would still do it after reading this? Whether its completely true or a tad off truth, 5 days or 5 months, he is merely asking why she really did such a thing and informing everyone that she is capable of such a thing. Yeah, it is really off by the extreme time frame (which april would only be 3 months ago..) but theres probably a reason for that.

Either way whoevers side your on, just learn from the repeated mistake of others:

DON'T GIVE OUT YOUR DAMN INFO, PEOPLE.

DON'T.
DO IT.

JUST DON'T.

Oh, you didn't get that the first 327 posts of stolen items/gold from trading account info? Well..

DON'T!! (key reference: Grind House trailer)

I lost a Berk+1 that way. And I got a staff back as compensation. Big whoop. My fault for trusting someone. His fault for trusting Mish. Other guy who posted below this thread for giving his info out to some other guy. And so on and so on.
 
awww elei you deleted all 20 of my post counts D:

On a side note, id like to add that both of these two are cool people.

Leggo sorry to see you go dude, and Mish i dont know you that well... I Just hope that what leggo is saying is not what truely transpired. If it is well i'll still treat you the same as i have.

It's sad to see two friends, i dunno if you are RL or not... I cant really tell by the flames. Get messed up because of a virtual non realistic currency. May zaltana help you both >.<

On another side note, SKANYA, MYRRH, EITEEN, NONINONI, NYOSAN, AND MYSELF BEAT APOCA NIGH!.

But yea i hope this can be resolved... i'd hate to see another friendship get torn apart because of this wtf game.
 
Karihkinz said:
Proof seems somewhat redundant since she basically admitted to it? And isn't the basic premises (well.... what it should be) of the flame board to inform the QCDN community of wrong doings so they DON'T happen again? How many people who would of let Mish have thier account info would still do it after reading this? Whether its completely true or a tad off truth, 5 days or 5 months, he is merely asking why she really did such a thing and informing everyone that she is capable of such a thing. Yeah, it is really off by the extreme time frame (which april would only be 3 months ago..) but theres probably a reason for that.

Proof seems somewhat redundant? Yes, Mish admitted to taking his gear, but her side is being COMPLETELY ignored by EVERYONE - which is that he said she could borrow stuff if she wanted. With no proof either way, everone's siding with Mr. Popular and the Accuser, Neo, and of course because Mish is who she is, she gave a heated response which makes her seem like more of a criminal.

Something Neo knew she'd do if she saw a thread like this, because he knows her at the very least as well as I do and it's exactly what I expected to see.

You see what I'm getting at here?

If Neo had absolutely no ulterior motives why is there even any thought given to the time frame? Why lapse into the "no proof zone" multiple months (fuck the number, multiple months will suffice) later, and then post the thread freely admitting to having no proof?

The way everyone's reacting, also, the burden of proof with regards to "you can borrow stuff" vs. "how dare you take anything you thief" is being placed on the accused. What happened to innocent until proven guilty? Are we so desperate for a vicious QCDN flame, so desperate to attack the already relatively maligned Mishaela that we're going to agree wholeheartedly with everything Neo says, with no proof, multiple months later? No chance for Mish to explain herself?

Witch hunts are so passé.
 
I lost a Berk+1 that way. And I got a staff back as compensation. Big whoop. My fault for trusting someone. His fault for trusting Mish. Other guy who posted below this thread for giving his info out to some other guy. And so on and so on.

Please, please, please stop acting as if I schemed to rob him and did. If I was seriously wanting to steal his crap, then I very obviously wouldn't have given it back to him within the day. I also obviously would've taken much more than just five pieces of equipment. Is it that really hard to see that? =/
 
and that shit that you took without asking. The Osode (i think was his) and the other serious shit.

It was mine. Probably part of the reason why it wasn't okay to just take it w/o asking. I don't honestly think that Neo would give you free reign over his equipment knowing that not all of it was his to give permission to borrow.


As for the chat log, I don't have a copy on my HD anymore, but my current title comes from it!
 
I don't even know what you meant by this...please forgive me dragging in one or two "unnecessary" things, but I personally thought we were great friends, asides the times you occasionally got upset after having some drinks, which honestly completely understood. We've both walked that path of losing a father. I could even overlook the occasional threats and you getting pissed off because I didn't want advice from you when you were drinking, and that I was actually not interested in you "that way" because I have a huge problem towards people with drinking problems (you know why).

I've told you before, you can be a very fun person when you're in a good mood. Though that unfortunately isn't very often...but I digress, you were a good friend, and you were a good person. But dragging up something you'd originally forgiven entirely, just to figure out if you were "that bad of a person"...I gave back your crap immediately, I apologized several times because what I'd done was simply stupid. I obviously valued our friendship. It's you, bringing this up so far down the road, that shows you're the one who obviously doesn't.

What is it with you and these guilt trips? Couldn't you see how obnoxious I was when I said I "forgave" you? I've blocked you from AIM because I needed you to shut the fuck up. And what is it with you and bringing up that one night? I. was. drunk. Clinically depressed. Get that through your head, girl. Do you want to get into the night where I said my father broke my rib? Or that I miss him? No. That's not the fucking topic. And I still choose not to bring up you personal stuff because I've got class. gasp! I know.

Hurry up and show some class yourself. Admit to what happened. The truth shall set you free. Or switch servers. Which ever is easier on your fragile mind.
 
Please, please, please stop acting as if I schemed to rob him and did. If I was seriously wanting to steal his crap, then I very obviously wouldn't have given it back to him within the day. I also obviously would've taken much more than just five pieces of equipment. Is it that really hard to see that? =/



I mean, look. Mish has a point too. If Mish is so devious, why did she only take... less gear than you can fit in a delivery box? If Mish had full access to Neo's account, she could've taken so much more. Ask yourself - why didn't she? Why did she return it right off the bat?

Mish isn't completely innocent. Yes, she took some of Neo's gear without asking him FIRST, but she was under the impression that she could borrow a handful of pieces as long as she let him know the next time they spoke.

But she isn't a thief, of that I am certain. Would I trust her with my account? I don't know. But then again, I'm not that trusting regardless. There are extremely few people I would trust with my account info. One of them already betrayed that trust and immediately lost access to it. I don't know Mish that well yet. In light of this incident? Well, I wasn't planning on giving her my account info to begin with so this changes nothing as far as I'm concerned.

Anyway, what it all comes down to really is that the OP is significantly more accusatory and incriminating than it really needs to be, if the message is a simple "don't share your account info". Neo chose instead to make a scene of it, preface it with some tripe about his lack of evidence to garner emotional support, and then threw a really, really big rock at Mish. Not cool.


edit: keep in mind my first paragraph and this direct quote from the OP:

"Anything that was worth of value was completely gone."

The sum total of Neo's worth can fit in one delivery box? I thought "[he'd] gotten nearly all the best gear for all of [his] jobs"... last I checked, a gear set is 16 slots and that isn't including swaps.
 
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i dont want to really touch this with too much, but honestly leggo she basically did admit to feeling overall bad about the issue. And from what i see did give you an appology... Ive seen more grinding from you than her in all honesty. I just think there is more than meets the eye in this. Both you and her have not disclosed alot... Nor do i think you should. This is an disagreement on things that you and her had. Maybe keep it that way since you two were such good friends?

*edit* maybe salvage what friendship you guys may still have. I mean you two did talk about problems to each other and such.... You both seemed to be great shoulders to cry upon . For each other at least
 
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Well using the "thats just how she is so its ok" approach doesn't leave any room for improvement now does it? You, Tag, seem to be ignoring the part where she claimed to not have the information and then passed his items back with a guilt trip attatched of continually saying "these are mine" repeatedly in some way, until ADMITTING TO LYING that took them. Thats not wrong? Wierd...

So while your busy defending a friend learn that people will realize you are a friend first and looking at facts second. ---Which is completely understandable as having a friend by your side through good times and bad are very noble things to do and everyone should have someone like that.--- But those facts you are looking at secondly will be her version. Then, maybe, you'll take in a little of the other story but completely disregard points made that you can't hold argument to.

To Mish, pure and simple, you say you valued the friendship and then pass down a guilt sentence to make him feel bad accusing him of not doing so. But he obviously did to trust you with the information. And you obviously didn't to lie to him. Whether you gave it back or not, you still did indeed lie to him.

I'm sure he did say borrow an item if you like but please tell me. I don't doubt that at all. But if that is so why pretend like you didn't have them? If you loaned them out without asking to someone else, that was wrong. If you had planned on keeping them and then had a strike of moral grief and returned them, thats very noble, but still wrong in the first place. I'm just trying to figure out not his side, not your side, as sides are pointless. The only thing that matters is what really happened. But its usually one person that has to twist and turn things until they aren't in the wrong anymore, and both people look like liars.
 
Tag, what on earth are you even arguing? Has Mish at any point denied that Neo was going to originally give her access to his account so she could borrow things way back before this incident? Has Neo denied that? Everyone really seems to agree with the timeline here:

-Neo gives her account info
-Time passes and Neo says he's quitting
-Mish takes stuff from his account
-Neo asks about it, she lies then admits it and apologizes and gives it back

What's there to prove here? They've both pretty much agreed this is what happened. The OP is pretty much a "Don't give out your account info, here's a personal account of why" which has devolved into RL issues that honestly I don't want or need to know about from both sides and should've been handled in PMs or on Myspace.

Oh, and "objects of value" you need to take into account that the vast majority of Neo's shit is more than likely r/e and can't change hands.

So did I miss anything or is this a pretty good summary of the topic?
 
Tagrineth said:
Neo chose instead to make a scene of it, preface it with some tripe about his lack of evidence to garner emotional support, and then threw a really, really big rock at Mish. Not cool.

Okay, thanks Sonic. I'm glad you can befriend a thief.

I don't know why you're making it seem like I'm doing this to get a rise. I know I'm an asshole but damn, do I have that much of an impact?

I want everyone to know the truth. THAT is the truth. Take it whatever way you will. I'm gonna go to sleep. When I wake up, I'll get reamed by a couple of friends and I'll have some honey nut cheerios and respond to posts.
 
right or wrong, neo made a post with details about an incident

mish made a counter-post with details about the incident... and then punched him in the nuts with personal shit.

Mish disqualified, neo wins by TKO

and who jacked 40 posts? lol
 
Proof seems somewhat redundant? Yes, Mish admitted to taking his gear, but her side is being COMPLETELY ignored by EVERYONE - which is that he said she could borrow stuff if she wanted. With no proof either way, everone's siding with Mr. Popular and the Accuser, Neo, and of course because Mish is who she is, she gave a heated response which makes her seem like more of a criminal.

Something Neo knew she'd do if she saw a thread like this, because he knows her at the very least as well as I do and it's exactly what I expected to see.

You see what I'm getting at here?

If Neo had absolutely no ulterior motives why is there even any thought given to the time frame? Why lapse into the "no proof zone" multiple months (fuck the number, multiple months will suffice) later, and then post the thread freely admitting to having no proof?

The way everyone's reacting, also, the burden of proof with regards to "you can borrow stuff" vs. "how dare you take anything you thief" is being placed on the accused. What happened to innocent until proven guilty? Are we so desperate for a vicious QCDN flame, so desperate to attack the already relatively maligned Mishaela that we're going to agree wholeheartedly with everything Neo says, with no proof, multiple months later? No chance for Mish to explain herself?

Witch hunts are so passé.

First, no, not EVERYONE is "siding" with Neo. Klank responded in defense of his friend and others have had neutral opinions as well, including myself. So that's probably not a wise statement to make.

Second, there is such a thing as personal accountability. You're talking "where's the proof, where's the proof?" Well, Mish by her own statements has maintained that what she did was stupid and showed a lack of judgement, both in the taking of the gear, and the fudging of truths regarding its return. I don't know Mish personally, but I'd say it's pretty safe to say that if she admits she took the gear, that's proof enough for me. That's coming from the source. So let's not act like there's no proof whatsoever.

You do have some points; one of which is, why would Neo hold onto information for this long and then seemingly randomly throw it out there for community consumption just for the hell of it? The fact is he hasn't said that he's revealing this information for any specific reason, and that could make someone wonder. What is the reason why he would just now make this public knowledge? I would only venture to speculate that he was angry and felt betrayed and, although he brushed it off and accepted apologies because she was a good friend, maybe the longer he stewed on it, the more it ate at him. He probably would have been better served speaking with her in private if he was upset, but he didn't. Maybe because, like Mish, he's a human being and let his anger and frustration get the best of him and acted in a rash and hurtful way.

I'm no psychologist, but I think it's a case of an injured friendship that never really got back on track. If you two value each other's friendships and if you do or ever did genuinely care for one another, then I think you both should take a step back here and realize you both acted before thinking it through. Neo, if you want answers, get them. But get them from Mish directly instead of shaming or exposing her publicly over something she obviously did wrong. She's apologized, she has admitted to doing something foolish. You need to get over it and forgive her or end your friendship and move on. Harping on it and dragging this out here doesn't reflect well on her, but it doesn't reflect much better on you either. And Mish, I know it's easy to lash back right away when you feel cornered or attacked. You have a right to not want to have to keep apologizing over and over again, but you also have to deal with him being angry over it and try to understand or you should walk away from it entirely.

Regardless, I think this never should have made it to the flameboard if there is any real friendship there. Forgive each other or don't, but don't make things messier for each other than you already have.
 
Tag, what on earth are you even arguing? Has Mish at any point denied that Neo was going to originally give her access to his account so she could borrow things way back before this incident? Has Neo denied that? Everyone really seems to agree with the timeline here:

-Neo gives her account info
-Time passes and Neo says he's quitting
-Mish takes stuff from his account
-Neo asks about it, she lies then admits it and apologizes and gives it back

What's there to prove here? They've both pretty much agreed this is what happened. The OP is pretty much a "Don't give out your account info, here's a personal account of why" which has devolved into RL issues that honestly I don't want or need to know about from both sides and should've been handled in PMs or on Myspace.

Oh, and "objects of value" you need to take into account that the vast majority of Neo's shit is more than likely r/e and can't change hands.

So did I miss anything or is this a pretty good summary of the topic?


Thats generally what i saw as well with a few revisions.

First i saw that both never disagreed that Mish and other friends i "THINK" were able to borrow gear. As long as Lego was told sometime within the time of the borrowing.

Secondly, i agree w/ rappa that this could have been handled in PM, you two were friends... And this seriously seems like a disagreement on words. Instead both of you kinda tarnished your names a bit.
 
This conversation was brought up earlier in WoW and I know a few people were suggesting to post the story to let people know what she was capable of. That being said, I can see why it would be a long while between the incident and the OP. Rappa hit the nail on the head, so to speak. Now its just arguing for the sake of arguing. I'm going to bed as well, as I think now everything is just being said over and over, and I highly doubt people who need to will think this over as it should be.
 
Well using the "thats just how she is so its ok" approach doesn't leave any room for improvement now does it? You, Tag, seem to be ignoring the part where she claimed to not have the information and then passed his items back with a guilt trip attatched of continually saying "these are mine" repeatedly in some way, until ADMITTING TO LYING that took them. Thats not wrong? Wierd...

You're ignoring that I said I've told him I knew his login, and even have borrowed his SH twice. Both times of which I gave back when he asked for it back. Showing he very obviously knew I had it and had no problem with it.

So while your busy defending a friend learn that people will realize you are a friend first and looking at facts second. ---Which is completely understandable as having a friend by your side through good times and bad are very noble things to do and everyone should have someone like that.--- But those facts you are looking at secondly will be her version. Then, maybe, you'll take in a little of the other story but completely disregard points made that you can't hold argument to.

See above. You're ignoring anything I say that might hurt his cause, because while you may not be his friend, you dislike me. Which is going to make you personally want him to be right to begin with.

To Mish, pure and simple, you say you valued the friendship and then pass down a guilt sentence to make him feel bad accusing him of not doing so. But he obviously did to trust you with the information. And you obviously didn't to lie to him. Whether you gave it back or not, you still did indeed lie to him.

I did, and I apologized immediately because I valued our friendship enough to assume it'd be better fessing up than trying to sneak the stuff back onto him behind his back. It wasn't the smartest thing ever, I've said this several times (unless you missed me saying it every single time), but again, him forgiving me then bringing this crap up again later on isn't the most respective thing, either. And yes, he did forgive me twice. He may not remember it for certain RL reasons I've previously mentioned, but he did. Twice.

I'm sure he did say borrow an item if you like but please tell me. I don't doubt that at all. But if that is so why pretend like you didn't have them?
Because I panicked and didn't want to take responsibility for him being so upset about something. I've...also actually said this in a former post also. You say the only thing redundant is proof, but it seems real redundancy is me having to answer the exact same things over...and over...and over...because you keep ignoring what I say.



People seriously need to stop assuming the absolute worst out of every situation. Especially when there's some major things right in front of their face that show it's obviously not nearly as bad as they think. But all the same, I think I'm going to take a break from this as well...people can think what they want. =/
 
Well using the "thats just how she is so its ok" approach doesn't leave any room for improvement now does it? You, Tag, seem to be ignoring the part where she claimed to not have the information and then passed his items back with a guilt trip attatched of continually saying "these are mine" repeatedly in some way, until ADMITTING TO LYING that took them. Thats not wrong? Wierd...

Kari, you completely whiffed on my meaning when I say that's how Mish is.

I was referring to the way she responded to the topic, NOT what she did. Aka people saying that her angry response made her more guilty, etc. Mish is fairly hot headed and there's no way she'd keep a level head after reading an OP like that.

Mish took a couple items, because she was under the impression Neo gave her permission to do so (which he actually, as far as I've noted, has yet to deny) on the pretense that she would tell him about it as soon as she was able to. In this case, he logged on, saw some items were missing, and he immediately freaked; the first thing he said to her was "I've been robbed", basically, and with no explanation. She didn't want him to freak so she was planning, originally, on slipping the handful of items back because she panicked (something a person like her is liable to do - i know, i'd probably do about the same thing). I'm not saying it was the right thing to do, but that's her side of the story. Then Neo went into accusations mode and she caved, because she isn't a bad person and couldn't keep up the ruse while being attacked by someone she thought was a close friend. I know I didn't quite word that right but that's the best I can do right now

So while your busy defending a friend learn that people will realize you are a friend first and looking at facts second. ---Which is completely understandable as having a friend by your side through good times and bad are very noble things to do and everyone should have someone like that.--- But those facts you are looking at secondly will be her version. Then, maybe, you'll take in a little of the other story but completely disregard points made that you can't hold argument to.

I've heard both sides and taken in both. Where have I disregarded points made from Neo's side? Point them out to me and I'll counter them. If I missed any, it was oversight.


To Mish, pure and simple, you say you valued the friendship and then pass down a guilt sentence to make him feel bad accusing him of not doing so. But he obviously did to trust you with the information. And you obviously didn't to lie to him. Whether you gave it back or not, you still did indeed lie to him.

She panicked because he immediately jumped into "I've been robbed" with no further explanation. She just wanted to fix the immediate concern (items = gone). While I agree she definitely didn't handle the situation well at all, that doesn't make her a thief.

I'm sure he did say borrow an item if you like but please tell me. I don't doubt that at all. But if that is so why pretend like you didn't have them? If you loaned them out without asking to someone else, that was wrong. If you had planned on keeping them and then had a strike of moral grief and returned them, thats very noble, but still wrong in the first place. I'm just trying to figure out not his side, not your side, as sides are pointless. The only thing that matters is what really happened. But its usually one person that has to twist and turn things until they aren't in the wrong anymore, and both people look like liars.

The person who usually has to twist and turn things is the second person to speak, because everyone hears the first person's story first and is most inclined to believe that story.

Even moreso when the first person to speak is very popular and the second... not so much so. Add to that Mish's characteristic hot-headed response...


Rappa: I'm here because I consider Mish a friend and I see her in distress, with the first thing I see in this thread being two pages of "oh god I knew she was such a devious bitch!" and posts to that effect. What do you expect me to do? Pick up a pitchfork? Mish is NOT a thief. She didn't do the right thing, but neither did Neo. I'm going to defend my friend, and I'm sorry that you think I'm wrong to do so, especially when nobody else seems willing to do so and would rather assault her without even considering an opinion other than "she's a lying, cheating whore & thief".




edit: lol, after Zyn's post I might as well delete this one, she put it much better than I did. I don't usually delete what I post though so I'll leave it anyway.
 
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There's a lot of vagueness and "He said, She said" in this thread. And of course, the 2 month wait before throwing Mish under the bus isn't the best selling point either.

Both parties agree that items were taken, items were returned, account info was shared, etc etc. In the end, nobody actually lost anything tangible, the situation can be explained a variety of ways depending on your perspective, and on the whole, any judgements passed as a result of this thread would be... premature.
 
There's a lot of vagueness and "He said, She said" in this thread. And of course, the 2 month wait before throwing Mish under the bus isn't the best selling point either.

Both parties agree that items were taken, items were returned, account info was shared, etc etc. In the end, nobody actually lost anything tangible, the situation can be explained a variety of ways depending on your perspective, and on the whole, any judgements passed as a result of this thread would be... premature.

QFT thanks raesvelg awesome one liner dude. Couldn't have said it anywhere near as good.
 
Mish's rate ups are worth a lot of points so that's kinda neat. :D

The OP is cool because he made a flame and resolved one all at the same time. Impressive. :D

P.S.
Thanks for the heads up never trust a woman.
Oh shit wait my EX taught me that very well. lol
 
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