Good Idea?

[meeze]

http://www.qcdn.org/showthread.php?t=32787

I wanted to discuss here.

You are thinking that these kids moving up from 70-73 are going to be doing sky with CK. What is happening is they are training them to do sky. My guess is they will have mission statics, and take part in some alliance fights like baby HNMs and such. This is to find out who is loyal and capable of being admitted into their main shell.

If this shell gets 50 people in it, and say 5 people turn into the type of player you want, 15 turn into soso players, the rest are w/e, they would have won.

When I was in Sora we wouldn't find out until players had gear how loyal they were. Some PLDs got their W. and M. abj's and were never seen again. Some got B. Haidate and left, or whatever they wanted and split.

I like the idea, sort of how baseball has a minor leagues.

 

[xKronox]

Fighting Simmy or doing basic story missions is no way to tribulate such things as the path to Byakko, or learning to kite Kirin, these are all learned on personal and first hand experiences by the players themselves.

 

[meeze]

You can't learn them lvl whoring to 75, thats for sure. But kiting, sneaking through zones is all part of normal tactics used throughout the game. Kiting a mob like the big gigas that drops the nice shield (pop NM) would be pretty good practice, and isn't costly to LS if a screw up were to happen.

Sneaking through den of rancor is a whole lot harder than sneaking through sky.

There are variances in sky, but really, it is the same set of tactics used throughout the game.

 

[Bajaratt]

Quoting from the other thread to keep it clean.

But my over point is endgame is something one must experiece through personal experience. Then there's "Ultra End Game" where you take on HUGE stuff, like Wyrms. You must prove yourself to others that you know the basics of endgame and have surpassed amogst the likes of sky, and gain respect as a player, and show your loyalty. This is not earned when someone else shows you the road, because they won't always be there for you.

Ninja EDIT: But excuse me for this, we should debate VIA PM, Meeze, or others. Sorry.

Yes, you need to be well versed in endgame before you can take on the big fights. But then, that's the whole point of this linkshell. Now, you're no longer just thrown into an endgame shell when you hit 70+, you're able to enter with an understanding of how most things work; so that you don't have to spend a year in sky or doing baby hnm's before you're considered "experienced enough" for bigger and better things.

Everyone has endgame explained to them when they join, this just speeds up the process and would benefit just about any of the endgame linkshells on the server. Now, instead of having to spend a lot of time and effort getting brand new people who you then have to teach everything to; people in this linkshell would join already somewhat knowledgeable as to what is to expect in endgame.

This linkshell is basically a junior highschool, it prepares you for the rigors of high school work. Then once you are ready you're fed into the senior high schools where you are better able to compete because you already have some experience in what you need to do. The same thing will happen here, your right in that you need first-hand experience to be good, but that's exactly what this kind of thing could and really should provide. It's going to give new players a taste of endgame, to see if they really want to participate so that it doesn't waste the individual and the linkshell's time by recruiting people who will hate endgame and not stick around for long. At the same time exposing those who would likely lead to future problems without much real risk.

 

[xKronox]

I like how you said the whole junior high stuff, because our teachers kept saying the same thing. You know what? When I got to High School EVERYONE was unprepared. The kids who will be going through this whole tribulation phase, will not be prepared for the likes of even sky. There's no way you can simulate something and compare it to the real thing. Not even watching it.

 

[meeze]

I like how you said the whole junior high stuff, because our teachers kept saying the same thing. You know what? When I got to High School EVERYONE was unprepared. The kids who will be going through this whole tribulation phase, will not be prepared for the likes of even sky. There's no way you can simulate something and compare it to the real thing. Not even watching it.

Now instead of Jr high >> High school, go 5th >> High school. That is what happens when players go from XP >> end game. They don't know shit.

 

[pakomen]

Or homeschooling >> college

I knew a kid who graduated when he was like 15 or 16... Bet college was a bit of a shocker.

In theory I think this is a good idea. But why would a kid join this LS when he could just join ANOTHER one that would immediately put him to use in sky? Or am I just reading you wrong? Reading at work and shit is not going good. >.>

 

[xKronox]

And just like in high school you learned your experiences by yourself. No one held your hand. You earned that high school diploma, you lived those years, thick and thins.

 

[meeze]

And just like in high school you learned your experiences by yourself. No one held your hand. You earned that high school diploma, you lived those years, thick and thins.

Do you think you could have gone from 5th grade to HS? Same knowledge and everything as you had in 5th grade.

 

[Shaunessy]

I know the solution to this whole thing. People need to stop being pussies. If you die, you die. You can't fight one thing so many times and know how to handle the next thing. After reading what this post is about yes I agree to it, but that is just because that is how this game was made. 3 years ago those were the big deal. Does Roc teach you how to take down wyrms though? NO><... Basically I would look at this as not who will stick around after getting their gear, but who will stick around when the fight goes south. Now I hear alot about BLMs logging out to lower hate, and I feel every single one of them are pussies, but if you build a pussy strategy then you breed them. What is the fun in having to quit the game to win a fight. I look at it like this, when the bullets are flying I won't get a chance to log out, and in a game if I die, I don't really die. No problem, reraise, wait out weakness, respawn, start over, what the fuck ever.

What I feel really needs to happen in something like this is fuck established/endgame mentallity, and try different setups. That PUP that just got 75, yeah let him play around with gear on Simmy and Roc. Let a COR buff a party. See what strategies you can come up with, with people that don't run from a tank death. Remember, 99% of those strategies that people use are set so easy that the lowest common denominator can apply them.

It's one think to parrot, it's another to teach it.

 

[xKronox]

I don't care about this anymore. If you guys want to feed these people with a silver spoon, that's your choice.

 

[meeze]

I know the solution to this whole thing. People need to stop being pussies. If you die, you die. You can't fight one thing so many times and know how to handle the next thing. After reading what this post is about yes I agree to it, but that is just because that is how this game was made. 3 years ago those were the big deal. Does Roc teach you how to take down wyrms though? NO><... Basically I would look at this as not who will stick around after getting their gear, but who will stick around when the fight goes south. Now I hear alot about BLMs logging out to lower hate, and I feel every single one of them are pussies, but if you build a pussy strategy then you breed them. What is the fun in having to quit the game to win a fight. I look at it like this, when the bullets are flying I won't get a chance to log out, and in a game if I die, I don't really die. No problem, reraise, wait out weakness, respawn, start over, what the fuck ever.

What I feel really needs to happen in something like this is fuck established/endgame mentallity, and try different setups. That PUP that just got 75, yeah let him play around with gear on Simmy and Roc. Let a COR buff a party. See what strategies you can come up with, with people that don't run from a tank death. Remember, 99% of those strategies that people use are set so easy that the lowest common denominator can apply them.

It's one think to parrot, it's another to teach it.

You're right, boot camp is stupid, lets just grab kids out of high school and give em a gun and have them protect our country.

The reason these fights are easy is because they've been done millions of times and everyone can learn how to do them.

BLMs logging helps speed things up, especially with redundant fights like kirin. It isn't a battle, there is no honor in fighting kirin, he's just another NM you need to kill to get gear. If BLM dies twice before unweakened wears, they are useless. And when LSs are doing 2-4 in a day, that is a slow process.

A lvl 75 player who lvl whored is about as useful as a lvl 60 player. You have to teach them from scratch.

Why not teach people from a lower level so you don't waste your time.

In the end you want the smartest, competent players in your LS. The person who runs through every zone and gets aggro isn't the guy you want.

The guy who complains about things, isn't the guy you want. The guy you do missions for and leaves after they are done, isnt the guy you want.

The reason some of the older shells are still in sky is because people quit, and you have to replace them, usually with someone who has never been to sky before.

 

[meeze]

I don't care about this anymore. If you guys want to feed these people with a silver spoon, that's your choice.

What silver spoon? You find out who are the good players, bring them in. The bad ones, let the Jins have them. Why would you want shitty players in your LS? Wouldn't you want to know who will be in your LS for a long time before giving them an Osode? B. Haidate? or do you want to guess with some kid who just lvl whore'd to 75 and doesn't even have sky.

 

[xKronox]

It's called a trial run.

A few of them, leaders discuss you, then they let you know if they will accpet you or not.

You're giving everyone a free ride to sky. Don't switch plates with me.

Another thing is, you are saying that these people depend too much on their social shell? But you don't want everyone in your LS right? Only the good ones. What happenes to the poor ones? If you were so self-righteous in the first place you would let everyone in. But too me ( Fuck it just be up front about it. ) it just seems like an alaborate recruiting sceme to juice up the LS.

 

[meeze]

It's called a trial run.

A few of them, leaders discuss you, then they let you know if they will accpet you or not.

You're giving everyone a free ride to sky. Don't switch plates with me.

Another thing is, you are saying that these people depend too much on their social shell? But you don't want everyone in your LS right? Only the good ones. What happenes to the poor ones? If you were so self-righteous in the first place you would let everyone in. But too me ( Fuck it just be up front about it. ) it just seems like an alaborate recruiting sceme to juice up the LS.

Lets see, a 2 week trial run, or a few weeks/months getting from 60-73ish. I think the second one will get you a more indepth look at a player, and what he's about. Anyone can sound like the greatest recruit until they get their shit and scram.

This isn't exactly elaborate, they get folks young, pick the cream of the crop, bring them in. Everyone else, see ya in Alleyesonme.

If you had any leadership skills you would see that a longer recruitment process will boost the percentage of quality players you recruit into your LS.

Even the good LSs have their problems with people leaving with gear. No LS is immune.

 

[Shaunessy]

Lets see, a 2 week trial run, or a few weeks/months getting from 60-73ish. I think the second one will get you a more indepth look at a player, and what he's about. Anyone can sound like the greatest recruit until they get their shit and scram.

This isn't exactly elaborate, they get folks young, pick the cream of the crop, bring them in. Everyone else, see ya in Alleyesonme.

If you had any leadership skills you would see that a longer recruitment process will boost the percentage of quality players you recruit into your LS.

Even the good LSs have their problems with people leaving with gear. No LS is immune.

Because this is an online game. Have you ever been in a clan in FPSs? You recruit the new guy that owns you all and put him on your "A team" then he leaves to go to a clan with a slightly better record than you. Get with it man, FFXI isn't going to change peoples behavior online, and this idea to me seems like a lost cause. Maybe it could work if everyone liked each other, but seriously how often does that happen on the interweb?

 

[meeze]

Because this is an online game. Have you ever been in a clan in FPSs? You recruit the new guy that owns you all and put him on your "A team" then he leaves to go to a clan with a slightly better record than you. Get with it man, FFXI isn't going to change peoples behavior online, and this idea to me seems like a lost cause. Maybe it could work if everyone liked each other, but seriously how often does that happen on the interweb?

You're dumber than I give you credit for. The point of this baby LS is to weed out the kids who are going to leave.

Do you understand what recruiting is? Finding the right people to fill roles and remain there.

The rest of the LSs can keep rolling the dice recruiting new noobs, while CK already has a pool of possible players they can draw from when they need a player.

Do you get that? have people you know to be reliable already ready to join? instead of throwing a dart at some noob who just applied and no one knows?

 

[Shaunessy]

And how do you know that they don't do it just for the possibility to move up, get gear, then take off? I mean even with the baby HNMs they are still making money right. Meeze this is online. I would not of stayed with my RS3 or ghost recon clan for as long as I did if I didn't like them. I was a respected player, and so were many of my clan mates, but we stuck together because we liked each other. Not because there is a slight chance that we could be bumped up to the majors. We won, we lost, but through all of it we had fun together.

 

[Marajade]

Thats why you have trial periods. 2-3 weeks of attending events, with no ability to obtain gear other than free lotted stuff. You find out if they know how to do the stuff, and if they dont, you can either teach them or decline thier application.
This new shell wont tell you if the person will be loyal to the main shell. You dont find that out untill they get thier Osode/N.Body/W.Legs and suddenly dont want to do events anymore.

 

[meeze]

That is what recruiting is for shaun. You find prospects, you evaluate them. The longer someone stays the longer they are likely to continue on. If you have a lvl 60 RDM and he stays till 75 with your LS, and joins your end game LS. Then you have a 75 RDM just recruited into the LS. Who has a higher chance of sticking it out?

Ya, the guy you got at 60. How is it a bad thing. you can gauge skills from 60-till they join the real LS. Maybe you find someone doesn't have the schedule you want.

You are arguing that people leave, they are finding ways to lower the chance of that. Come on now, get the point.