Hachiman Gear for Samurai

[Aaleel]

I'm asking this way in advance because my Sam is only 47 ATM lol, but i'm mapping out what I'll need to 75 for Sam. How much of this is good for WS when I get to merit level, or even equippable level.

I have some stuff from my Ninja that I can use for WS. Would Haub, Shura Haidate and Shura Kabuto be better than their Hachiman counterparts, and if I get the drops in Limbus would Sam AF+1 hands be better as well?

Also a couple of other questions.

Is Soboro the last Great Katana I'll need through Merit, and if not what's a better Great Katana, and what's the best Great Katana for Endgame stuff, I do Sky mostly, but moving to Sea soon.

 

[Phraust]

Hachiman(aside from feet, arguably) is a joke. Just use Haub/Haub+1, or Osode.

It's laughable because it "looks" like it should be good, but it really isn't.

Melee: Haub/Haub+1, Osode, or D.Body. Or Askar if you can get it.
WS: Haub+1 > Osode > Haub > Hachiman.

Hands:
Melee: O.Kote
WS: Alkyoneus's Brc.

 

[Khajit]

how much storetp you want depends on your style/preference.
you can either go for +10 during your whole tp phase or go overboard on the tp phase and ws in less/vice versa.

 

[Bajaratt]

When I was leveling, I wore hachiman hands and legs to get a 6-hit setup until I maxed out my store TP merits, then sold the hachiman hands ASAP. Once you get store TP maxed out, only hachiman boots are any good at all. AF+1 hands are great, you miss out on 4 str/attack, but you don't have that -9dex/acc tacked on; but you actually get the 7 dex/acc out of them. You might put up slightly less higher-end damage on your weaponskills, but you're getting more consistency.

 

[Miruyasha]

Depends on situation, really. Like Phraust said, alot of the Hachiman gear is a joke, with only a few pieces really worth getting. I use the head and hands a bit, but I only use the body for ws macroing. Up to you, though, really.

 

[Bajaratt]

Hauby is better than the Hachiman body for weapon skills.

8 str, 8 acc(WS only), 8 attack vs 5 str, 15 attack, 5 dex, 15 accuracy? It should be clear which wins.


Hachiman head would only be good for weapon skills, and shura kabuto is better than it, easily. The latent on Hachiman is only active when you're above 100% TP, but you're never going to be meleeing past 100% TP anyways, so the latent is useless.

 

[Celvantes]

Ultimate SAM Guide

 

[Bajaratt]

Ultimate SAM Guide

lol @ saying soboro stops being king of damage before hagun. Other than that stupid part, it's not any different from what you'd see in other guides. "Ultimate," maybe, but not the only one.

 

[RaidrX]

What? I thought you should melee and ws in full Hachiman (especially legs) all the time?

Jokes aside you guys think Haub+1 over osode for ws? Just cause of the Acc? or what. I've switched em out a few times in pts and the osode seemed better to me, but then again i did it for probably a total of 10 WS so i'm not really sure.

 

[ds083roadkill]

submitted version 9 of my sam guide over at lulgamefaqs.com

few more days and it's going to have to 2nd birthday :rtfm:

 

[phishn]

Hauby is better than the Hachiman body for weapon skills.

8 str, 8 acc(WS only), 8 attack vs 5 str, 15 attack, 5 dex, 15 accuracy? It should be clear which wins.


Hachiman head would only be good for weapon skills, and shura kabuto is better than it, easily. The latent on Hachiman is only active when you're above 100% TP, but you're never going to be meleeing past 100% TP anyways, so the latent is useless.

I use hachiman body instead of hauby because.

1. I can swap out Hachiman Sune-Ate for Rutter Sabatons for weapon skill and still maintain a 6 hit build.

2. Yukikaze, Gekko, Kasha have a 75% str dmg mod. 8 str > hauby str. If you need more acc, then hauby/+1 hauby may be a better choice for you.

3. I dont have an Osode yet, as indicated above, 10 str> hauby str, this is what I would use for WS, and wear Hachiman Sune-Ate (+1's if i could ever find them) full time for 6 hit build.

4. -eva and - agi I do not need after using a ws, dont need to increase the critical hit rate on me after ticking off a mob while getting seigan/third eye up.

As mentioned before, the references to equipping Hachiman gear above is generally to maintain a 6 hit build, at level 75 with full Store TP merits, except for the extra str the body piece provides for ws, until you obtain an osode.

 

[Bajaratt]

I use hachiman body instead of hauby because.

1. I can swap out Hachiman Sune-Ate for Rutter Sabatons for weapon skill and still maintain a 6 hit build.

2. Yukikaze, Gekko, Kasha have a 75% str dmg mod. 8 str > hauby str. If you need more acc, then hauby/+1 hauby may be a better choice for you.

3. I dont have an Osode yet, as indicated above, 10 str> hauby str, this is what I would use for WS, and wear Hachiman Sune-Ate (+1's if i could ever find them) full time for 6 hit build.

4. -eva and - agi I do not need after using a ws, dont need to increase the critical hit rate on me after ticking off a mob while getting seigan/third eye up.

As mentioned before, the references to equipping Hachiman gear above is generally to maintain a 6 hit build, at level 75 with full Store TP merits, except for the extra str the body piece provides for ws, until you obtain an osode.

1. About the only real point to wear hachiman body over hauby for weapon skills. It's not an issue for me, I've just been sticking with hachiman feet since I don't have rutters, but the store TP is the sole good reason why you'd use hachiman body.

2. Acc isn't the reason Hauby is better, it's the attack. You lose 3 str, but gain 7 attack; you'd need at double minuet going to get to the point where attack stops being useful and you need more STR.

3. Same as #2, although hachiman sune-ate +1's are completely useless, the NQ give you enough for a 6-hit, there's no reason to get the HQ.

4. Not wanting to increase your crit rate = lol. Same with being afraid of the -agi/evasion on a hauby, you have gear swapping macros for a reason. If you're that afraid of being hit that you'll lower your damage so you don't pull hate, throw up seigan/third eye before you ws.

Hauby is clearly better, Osode gained a good amount of ground with the 2h update, but Hachiman body still falls short.

 

[phishn]

1. About the only real point to wear hachiman body over hauby for weapon skills. It's not an issue for me, I've just been sticking with hachiman feet since I don't have rutters, but the store TP is the sole good reason why you'd use hachiman body.

2. Acc isn't the reason Hauby is better, it's the attack. You lose 3 str, but gain 7 attack; you'd need at double minuet going to get to the point where attack stops being useful and you need more STR.

3. Same as #2, although hachiman sune-ate +1's are completely useless, the NQ give you enough for a 6-hit, there's no reason to get the HQ.

4. Not wanting to increase your crit rate = lol. Same with being afraid of the -agi/evasion on a hauby, you have gear swapping macros for a reason. If you're that afraid of being hit that you'll lower your damage so you don't pull hate, throw up seigan/third eye before you ws.

Hauby is clearly better, Osode gained a good amount of ground with the 2h update, but Hachiman body still falls short.

Reply to points 1-4, with sufficient accuracy, str and more str is the rule, maintain 6 hit, then focus on attk for ws.

1. 8 str + 3 str = 11 str with hachiman body and sabatons.

2. 5 str hauby + 2 str hachiman boots = 7 str (I dont have HQ)

2a. 6 str hauby hq + 3 str hachiman boots hq = 9 str, lower than current setup.

3. Future: 10 str osode + 3 str +1 boots(makes up for -1 str loss from sabatons) = 13 str, +2 str more than current WS setup.

4. +10 acc, +10 attk, +10 str, couple of hits hopefully non crit, seigan/third eye.

I understand attack should never be neglected, but the attack increase from the hauby now for WS percentage wise is lower than it use to be with this update. My attk is I believe -5 from my TP build vs my WS build. Prior to this update, my WS build had much less attack.

On a side note, NQ Hauby + NQ Hachiman Sune-Ate = +8 str, +18 attk
Hachiman Domaru + Rutter Sabatons = +11 str, +16 attk

 

[jamal]

Reply to points 1-4, with sufficient accuracy, str and more str is the rule, maintain 6 hit, then focus on attk for ws.

1. 8 str + 3 str = 11 str with hachiman body and sabatons.

2. 5 str hauby + 2 str hachiman boots = 7 str (I dont have HQ)

2a. 6 str hauby hq + 3 str hachiman boots hq = 9 str, lower than current setup.

3. Future: 10 str osode + 3 str +1 boots(makes up for -1 str loss from sabatons) = 13 str, +2 str more than current WS setup.

4. +10 acc, +10 attk, +10 str, couple of hits hopefully non crit, seigan/third eye.

I understand attack should never be neglected, but the attack increase from the hauby now for WS percentage wise is lower than it use to be with this update. My attk is I believe -5 from my TP build vs my WS build. Prior to this update, my WS build had much less attack.

On a side note, NQ Hauby + NQ Hachiman Sune-Ate = +8 str, +18 attk
Hachiman Domaru + Rutter Sabatons = +11 str, +16 attk

Probably a job difference but nonetheless interesting, my WS build is roughly 20-30 attack higher on both dual weild and two-handed weapons...I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I'd assume even more of an attack bonus on the two-handed side because of the 1:1 STR:Attack ratio.

 

[phishn]

With the 2 handed update, for WS, my attack increased as follows just due to the update. This total str includes hasso, food, gear, which i use for WS.

/war 80 +68 str = +148 attk, +74 attk more since update
/nin 78 +68 str = +146 attk, +73 attk more since update
/thf 76 +68 str = +144 attk, +72 attk more since update

 

[Bajaratt]

Reply to points 1-4, with sufficient accuracy, str and more str is the rule, maintain 6 hit, then focus on attk for ws.

1. 8 str + 3 str = 11 str with hachiman body and sabatons.

2. 5 str hauby + 2 str hachiman boots = 7 str (I dont have HQ)

2a. 6 str hauby hq + 3 str hachiman boots hq = 9 str, lower than current setup.

3. Future: 10 str osode + 3 str +1 boots(makes up for -1 str loss from sabatons) = 13 str, +2 str more than current WS setup.

4. +10 acc, +10 attk, +10 str, couple of hits hopefully non crit, seigan/third eye.

I understand attack should never be neglected, but the attack increase from the hauby now for WS percentage wise is lower than it use to be with this update. My attk is I believe -5 from my TP build vs my WS build. Prior to this update, my WS build had much less attack.

On a side note, NQ Hauby + NQ Hachiman Sune-Ate = +8 str, +18 attk
Hachiman Domaru + Rutter Sabatons = +11 str, +16 attk

Why would you take off the rutters? Before I stored all of my RSE, I used savage gaiters for weapon skills for the 1 more STR over hachiman. I didn't notice any loss to my 6-hit build when I wasn't using any hachiman for weapon skills.

I don't know what you're using for TP/WS, but I'm losing about 15 attack from my TP build to my WS build; and that's going from shura togi to Haubergeon; It'd be a 22 attack loss if I went to Hachiman body. That's a huge drop in attack for a pidly 3 STR that definitely won't make up the difference. You're vastly overestimating the effect of STR on your weapon skills. Yeah, it's the stat to stack, but you can't completely ignore attack like you're doing. You're not going to get to the point where more attack isn't needed very often, so ignoring a huge chunk of attack to boost STR is not going to get you the best results.

 

[phishn]

6 hit build = WS land + 5 swings to 100% TP. You need +11 Store TP in gear/food with a 450 Delay Great Katana after full Store TP merits for both WS land and melee strikes to maintain 6 hit build.

Where are you seeing this huge chuck of attack? In this comparison I see +3 str vs +2 attk, for a SAM, +3 STR > +2 attk for WS.

NQ Hauby + NQ Hachiman Sune-Ate = +8 str, +18 attk
Hachiman Domaru + Rutter Sabatons = +11 str, +16 attk

 

[Bajaratt]

6 hit build = WS land + 5 swings to 100% TP.

No shit, a 6-hit build means you get to 100% in six hits? Wow.

Where are you seeing this huge chuck of attack? In this comparison I see +3 str vs +2 attk, for a SAM, +3 STR > +2 attk for WS.

Because my body and legs slots are not the only things that I change when I do a weapon skill. I don't build TP in a STR setup(Apparently you do though if you're only losing 5 attack, or you're using shitty gear), so when I change to do a weapon skill, I have to take off some attack for STR. What I do change is:

O. Kote -20
Shura Togi -20
total: -40

Hauby +15
Myochin kote +1 +7
Wyvern Helm +5
total: +27

It's a 13 attack loss, 20 with Hachiman domaru; I forget where I got that other 2 attack, but I can't log in to check my gear at the moment. That's still a significant drop in attack that your 3 STR isn't going to make up for.

Why not WS in a cerberus mantle if you think STR is always better than attack?

 

[phishn]

I have a -6 attk difference between TP and WS.(Will be -11 with B haidates)

TP gain: +20 togi, +20 okotes, -5 Swift Belt, +2 Sting, +16 STR = +53 attk
WS:+5 Sabatons, +37 str more, +5 Unequipped Swift Belt = + 47 attk

I dont have exact totals but both builds are over 400 attk for /war,/nin,/thf

"Why not WS in a cerberus mantle if you think STR is always better than attack?"

I would with a +1 but Enmity +4 no thanks. Have enough of that in Warwolf Belt.

 

[K. Ishitar]

it's...not quite a sam thread till {Fishing} {Man} posts

/brain melts