Hachiman Gear for Samurai

[phishn]

"No shit, a 6-hit build means you get to 100% in six hits? Wow."

Unless you have Usukane gear I do not see how it is possible to get a 6 hit build without at least one piece of hacihman, or eating carbonara period.

 

[phishn]

To the OP, sorry for the derailment, bottom line, Hachiman gear is situational, and needed to satisfy a 6 hit build for melee and WS strikes with Store TP merits, unless you have usukane.

I will use Hachiman body piece for WS until Osode comes along.

Not mentioned, some Hachiman pieces are also very good to use for /rng, the WS acc does work with sidewinder. I'm not sure the setup, i dont use /rng.

 

[Bajaratt]

This is going to be a long post, bunch of screen shots; just a warning.

TP gain: +20 togi, +20 okotes, -5 Swift Belt, +2 Sting, +16 STR = +53 attk
WS:+5 Sabatons, +37 str more, +5 Unequipped Swift Belt = + 47 attk

Where is this STR magically coming from that you don't have on already? Head you can get 5, rings you should already have STR rings on since you don't need accuracy there anymore. Your attack build sucks, really. I'm getting +91 attack for TP, and +78 for weapon skills.

"No shit, a 6-hit build means you get to 100% in six hits? Wow."

Unless you have Usukane gear I do not see how it is possible to get a 6 hit build without at least one piece of hacihman, or eating carbonara period.

Nice to see the sarcasm went over your head.

Finally got back to my computer, so here's a little test I just did:

This is the gear I was using, I'm mainly naked because I wanted the mob to actually last more than one hit after my weapon skill and to show that I wasn't wearing any other hachiman gear.:

And here are the results, I removed hachiman boots for my weapon skill and then put them back on for the next 5 hits.

 

[phishn]

TP gain based on mobs damaging you does not count towards a 6 hit build lol.

 

[Bajaratt]

TP gain based on mobs damaging you does not count towards a 6 hit build lol.

You're an idiot. I got hit ONCE during the entire thing, and there's no way a single hit gives me NINE TP.

 

[Khali]

ya. TP gain is based on the delay of your weapon along with the store tp... I know all sams know after you get your final store tp trait at 70 i think it is.. that +21 is your magic number. I wouldn't even bother with 6/100 build until you get a Rajas Ring. Then to end this debate... Just start doing salvage and get usukane feet. Problem Solved. XD

Right now I'm trying to use this as my tp/haste setup

Weapon: Hagun (want soboro as well but haven't gotten one ; ; )
Grip: +3% Crit Hit (Claymore)
Range: Lightning Bow +1

Head: Turban
Neck: Chiv.
Earrings: Brutal/Fowling (i want bushi but have to do DM again sometime)
Body: Hauby
Hands: Dusk NQ
Rings: Rajas/Flame
Back: Amemet+1
Waist: Warwolf (<3 2h update, but need swift)
Legs: AF+1 (dunno when i'll get B. Haidate, when i do i have to change a lot)
Feet: Hachiman NQ

With that setup +21 store tp is easily attainable. My prob is that i haven't completed my store tp merits so i have to stick with Hachiman feet. When i finish store tp merits i wanna switch my feet to Fumas for +3% haste.

Full TP Merits + Rajas + Brutal = +16 store TP

Those would probably be your must-haves as Sam right? so basically you'd have to gear yourself to have +5 store tp somewhere. My idea is.. the faster you reach 100 tp the better off you are (probably why Soboro is great for sam). So if you can put on 5 store TP then fill in the rest with haste and wherever you can't fill in with haste then put on str/atk gear in its place. I hope when i get the armor i want that's 'attainable' i'll have +21 store tp and +15% haste.

I do have a question for some of you elite sams tho. For TPing.. when you're using B. Haidate and Justice Torque for TPing.. where are you putting that +5 store tp armor to make the 6/100 build? And don't say Usukane Feet XD

 

[phishn]

Finally a SAM who understands you need +21 Store TP as a magic number for 6/100 to end the discussion. I was getting ready to pull out the calculation and number crunch as my screenshot and proof. Regarding the prior attack comparison gimp gear statement as its not hard to figure out that its the moving pieces between TP and WS that I calculated, not the attack total.

On to constructive conversation. You are correct regarding the Store TP IV trait which is level 70, but ideally you need the +10 Store TP from merits to not waste too many key slots on Store TP gear for a 6/100.

Full TP Merits + Rajas + Brutal = +16 store TP are essential, most SAM's use the foot slot for the remaining +5 Store TP. Hachiman Boots are generally used full time which are +5 Store TP, slot of lowest sacrifice. If you have usukane sune-ates, use those for both TP and WS, and hope the +5 enmity compounded with Warwolf's belt +3 don't eat you alive.

Fuma's for feet are nice, but you can gain that haste using dusk gloves instead.

Without usukane, you need one piece of hachiman for TP and WS, unless you take the AF+1 and chiv chain route which means you lose 2 useful slots.

Hands: If you used Hachiman Kotes full time, you lose okotes, b kotes, dusk gloves, myochin kotes +1 as TP options, and Alky's bracelets, etc for WS

Body: Hachiman Domaru full time is really not an option. You could use Usukane haramaki full time but will result in less attack for TP build, but +20 acc. Hauby +1, Togi, Hauby, Osode TP build, for WS Osode, Usukane haramaki, hauby +1, Hachiman Domaru.

Legs: Hachiman Haidate, AF+1 full time not really an option. You want to use B haidates, shura haidate TP build, Shura Haidate, AF+1 if your accuracy can handle it for WS.

Neck: Chiv Chain you can use to add +1 store TP, but you will lose Justice Torque, Peacock Charm options, and sea gorgets for WS.

Here is what I use today and plan to use in the future. Keep in mind I'm not pursuing Usukane gear at this time. Some things are preference, some like o/b kotes for TP and extra attack, others dusk gloves, I prefer a balance between acc, attk, haste, while maintaning 6/100.

TP build

Grip: Pole Strap
Ammo: Tiphia Sting
Head: Walahra Turban
Neck: Peacock Charm (Future: Justice Torque)
Ear: Bushinomimi
Ear: Brutal Earring
Body: Shura Togi
Hands: Ochiudo's Kotes
Ring: Thunder Ring
Ring: Rajas Ring
Back: Amemet Mantle +1 (Future Foragers Mantle)
Waist: Swift Belt
Legs: Shura Haidate (Future Byakko's Haidate)
Feet: Hachiman Sune-Ate (Future Hachiman Sune-Ate +1)

This TP build using meat (non hedgehog pie although I'll try it next time) gets me about 89% accuracy at Mamool camp with no madrigal. I have full Great Katana merits and use Hasso most the time. I'm hoping the additional 8 acc from B Haidates over Shura Haidates bumps this into the 90+% range.

WS

Grip: Pole Strap
Ammo: Olibanum Sachet
Head: Shura Zunari Kabuto
Neck: Sea Gorgets
Ear: Bushinomimi
Ear: Brutal Earring
Body: Hachiman Domaru (Future Kirin's Osode)
Hands: Alkyoneus's Bracelets
Ring: Flame Ring
Ring: Rajas Ring
Back: Amemet Mantle +1 (Future Foragers Mantle)
Waist: Warwolf's Belt
Legs: Shura Haidate
Feet: Rutter Sabatons (Future Hachiman +1 to be used with Osode)

 

[Bajaratt]

Ring: Thunder Ring

LOL. Well, you're the one who apparently thinks that getting hit gives me 9 TP, so I guess I'm not surprised.

Khali, most sam's wear hachiman feet for their 6-hit builds. The feet slot is the weakest slot, the only other real option for TPing is fumas or Saotome kyahan. Legs, hands, body and head all have significantly better options for TPing in, so feet are really the only option.

 

[phishn]

LOL. Well, you're the one who apparently thinks that getting hit gives me 9 TP, so I guess I'm not surprised.

Khali, most sam's wear hachiman feet for their 6-hit builds. The feet slot is the weakest slot, the only other real option for TPing is fumas or Saotome kyahan. Legs, hands, body and head all have significantly better options for TPing in, so feet are really the only option.

Think before you speak. There is this thing called critical hits, dex helps boost the percentage. You are trying to say snipers > thunder ring for TP now? Are you one of those idiots who wear your ws gear to build TP and eat sushi ?

 

[phishn]

By the way you did not gain 25 TP return on your last swing. You fell short, you do know it takes a ton of Store TP to raise your TP by 1% correct? Well usually without the +21 Store TP you are stuck at 99% after the 6th hit, so even if the mob gave you 1%, you fail. Do the test with /nin, chiv chain instead of brutal, and shadows next time, against something that does no damage to you.

Base TP = 5.0 + [(Delay - 180) * 6.5] / 270
TP= Base TP * (1 + StoreTP%)
Final result is trunkated to the nearest tenth.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/TP

Store TP IV=25
Store TP Merits=10
Rajas=5
Brutal=1
Hachiman Sune-Ate=5

WS hit 1

TP=(5.0 + [(450 - 180) * 6.5] / 270) * (1 + .41))
TP=11.5 * 1.41= 16.215 = 16.2

Swing 1 hit 2

TP=(5.0 + [(450 - 180) * 6.5] / 270) * (1 + .46))
TP=11.5 * 1.46= 16.79 = 16.7

Swing 2 hit 3

TP=(5.0 + [(450 - 180) * 6.5] / 270) * (1 + .46))
TP=11.5 * 1.46= 16.79 = 16.7

Swing 3 hit 4

TP=(5.0 + [(450 - 180) * 6.5] / 270) * (1 + .46))
TP=11.5 * 1.46= 16.79 = 16.7

Swing 4 hit 5

TP=(5.0 + [(450 - 180) * 6.5] / 270) * (1 + .46))
TP=11.5 * 1.46= 16.79 = 16.7

Swing 5 hit 6

TP=(5.0 + [(450 - 180) * 6.5] / 270) * * (1 + .46))
TP=11.5 * 1.46= 16.79 = 16.7

Total TP = 16.2 + 16.7 +16.7 +16.7 +16.7 +16.7 = 99.7 = FAIL

But somehow on your 6th hit you got 25 TP? Lets figure this one out.

25TP=(5.0 + [(450 - 180) * 6.5] / 270) * (1 + X))

X=2.18

2.18 - 1 = 1.18

1.18 - .35 (Store TP IV and Merits) = .83 = 83 Store TP

You had on +83 Store TP in Gear and/or food to gain 25 TP on your last swing, without getting hit, without using meditate. Please tell me how you do it.

And an FYI Store TP also applies to the TP gained from being attacked.

 

[Khali]

So basically for GAINING TP your options for the final +5 store TP are...


Chiv Chain + Myochin Haidate +1
Hachiman Sun-Ate (or HQ)
Usukane Sun-Ate
Hachiman Kote (or HQ)
Arrabiato



Hachi Sun-ate
--------------
OK the most adaptable piece of armor seems to be Hachiman Sun-Ate because you can wear B. Haidate, Justice Torque, PCC, etc etc.. You're putting your whole +5 store TP into one piece of gear. So it's nice if you have all the elite sea gear. But if you don't.. there are better options.

Turban + B. Haidate + Swift + Dusk + Hasso = 27% haste

==========================

Chiv/Myn Haidate +1
--------------------
I think this is a great setup if you don't have B. Haidate because 30 ABCs isn't hard to get. And I'm guessing ppl are doing limbus anyways (assumption). With the 2h update.. do you 'really' need a PCC now? because if you have a Rajas Ring and the 2H update your chiv chain + rajas is now a PCC. If you're mithra you have a bit more dex to add on to you acc as well. Also Lightning bow +1 gives you 3 dex as well and is only 100k~ now. Myochin Haidate +1 has 5 str and vit which is nice. Plus like i already said... this allows you to wear Fuma Sun-Ate or Kyahan for another 3% haste. The only weakness to this setup is that it won't work with Justice Torque

Fumas + Swift + Turban + Dusk + Hasso = 25% haste

============================

Hachiman Kote
--------------
All the store tp you need and more with using this but you're missing out on a lotta options to up your DoT or attack speed. Now that the Gigai Bracelets are pretty cheap except alky, is there even a reason to have these at all? I'd go with O/B Kotes, Dusk, etc etc. But this does let you use Justice Torque, B. Haidate tho.

Fumas + Swift + Turban + B. Haidate + Hasso = 27% Haste


============================

Arrabiato
---------
If you're considering this as an option that means you have too much money and you're one of the people I hate (not really but still.. it's the principle of the thing). This dish not only gives you +5 Store TP.. it gives you +120 attack at base 533 atk AND +5 str. You'll get more for your gil if you can successfully craft it since 1 dragon meat = 2 arrabiatos. But if you can use this... then you can put on any haste gear and Torque setup you want when TPing and all the STR/ATK/Gorget gear you want when WSing. This is probably every Sam's dream option in the long run, but can only really be used in the short run due to lack of funds and increase rate of death. You'd probably only use this option in with Sanction Food bonus since you can't really waste 30k on one piece of food (if it's even in the AH).

Fumas + B. Haidate + Dusk + Swift + Turban + Hasso = 30% Haste

================================

I didn't want to put Usukane as an option because we all know how good the feet are anyway.

 

[Khali]

btw.. phishn.. i've done all that math long ago for that store TP stuff. You can ask Roadkill if you want confirmation. If you really wanna see great Store TP numbers... try getting a lucky number or 11 on Samurai Roll with a sam in the party. IF you're wearing a lot of Store TP armor (i forget how much) you can do 5/100 build easy.

 

[phishn]

So basically for GAINING TP (Including Weapon Skill hit) your options for the final +5 store TP are...


Chiv Chain + Myochin Haidate +1
Hachiman Sun-Ate (or HQ)
Usukane Sun-Ate
Hachiman Kote (or HQ)
Arrabiato

Usukane haramaki would work full time too, and pile haste if you desire in hands, feet slots.


Regarding PCC: With the 2h update.. do you 'really' need a PCC now?

For me, I would say yes, since im not at or close to the 95% acc cap, (89% at mamool camp with meat). As mithra sam/war, you have 75 base dex, I have 65 as elvaan. Same reason I use thunder ring for TP build.

"The only weakness to this setup is that it won't work with Justice Torque" and sea gorgets for WS.

"Gigai Bracelets are pretty cheap except alky, is there even a reason to have these at all?" STR +11, 75% STR mod on your top 3 ws. If you want to max your str for the hand slot, thats the piece. Pallas are good too. Prior to 2H update I used af+1 for /war, /nin, alkys for /thf, now I use alkys for ws full time.

I know you understand the 6 hit build , magic number, and the math. The math was to counteract those misleading pictures posted earlier in the thread reagarding 6 hit build. Just trying to provide accurate information to help people along.

 

[Khali]

I for the comment about the "should you even have these at all?" i meant that for the Hachiman Kote. With pallas and alky bracelets why would you want to use hand armor as a source to get your +5 store TP is all I mean. With how cheap it is to build up your hand armor slot, hachiman kote is practically a waste of time in getting.

If you're getting a justice torque then your PCC is useless unless you got other jobs aside from drk. I need my bushi and swift belt but i don't wanna drop my suppa until i know i'm doing DM with a sure win. I've had bad luck with swift belt in the past and almost everyone has their own belt now ; ;

But man.. Arrabiato is the ultimate food for sam. It opens up ALL possibilities. Only bad thing about it is that it doesn't have any dex or acc on it. I would go all out haste and fill in the rest with atk/str/dex in TP/Haste mode and then just go crazy in WS mode. I wonder what kind of numbers you can parse when using arrabiato. The other 'problem' would be dying too early because you're doing so much damage. If you go all out haste.. that's 30% from the pieces i've listed. 315 delay with a 6/100 build. That's just sick.

 

[phishn]

The only time I use hachiman kotes full time is to obtain a 6 hit build using a michibishia (420 delay) which requires +22 Store TP in gear/food. Did some preliminary testing in dynamis with michibishia, claymore strap, 6 hit build eating carbonara, and was pretty surprized by the results. Want to try this meriting but I am going to wait for B. haidates.

Only other use TP build wise for the Hachiman Kote +1 (+9 Store TP) I have seen is by Amanomurakumo SAM's. They have 437 delay weapon, need +16 Store TP in gear/food for 6 hit. Tachi: Kaiten offers a latent effect of +7 Store TP (for 30 seconds minimum at 100% TP). I'm guessing they swap out the Hachiman Kotes +1 for Alky's for WS, Swap in AF+1 legs and Hachiman Sune-Ate (+1) to satisfy the +9 Store TP in gear and not sacrifice STR.

 

[Bajaratt]

Think before you speak. There is this thing called critical hits, dex helps boost the percentage. You are trying to say snipers > thunder ring for TP now? Are you one of those idiots who wear your ws gear to build TP and eat sushi ?

And it's going over your head again. You're wearing an accuracy ring, it's at least a DEX ring so you get crits out of it, but it's for accuracy. That's what's so laughable, because there's no way you should need any more accuracy on sam now. BUt hey, you were also talking about TPing in myochin kote +1, so

By the way you did not gain 25 TP return on your last swing. You fell short, you do know it takes a ton of Store TP to raise your TP by 1% correct? Well usually without the +21 Store TP you are stuck at 99% after the 6th hit, so even if the mob gave you 1%, you fail. Do the test with /nin, chiv chain instead of brutal, and shadows next time, against something that does no damage to you.

For all the numbers you're copying and pasting from wiki, you really are slow. I never denied that I gained extra TP by being hit; what I denied was that the ONE hit that I received during my test did not give an impossible amount of TP that would prevent me from hitting 100% in 5 hits after a weapon skill. If the mob hits me and I end up at 100-102% on my 5th hit, that's when I fail, but 108%? You have to be retarded to think it's possible to gain that much TP by being hit, without using a myochin body. Removing my brutal earring would taint the test(I already had chiv chain on, if you were smart enough to look at the first screen shot); since I'm testing what gear I normally wear.

You're saying it's impossible, and yet I did it; hell I even showed proof. Not my fault if you're not smart enough to understand it.

 

[Khali]

that was the problem with sword strap.. takes off 3% of delay making your delay be 437 (coincidence?). Well it's 436.5 but you might as well call it 437. I know ppl like the double attack strap or the str strap but i really like the claymore strap. I can see if you're not /war how the double attack strap is good... but if you are /war... you might as well get the 3% crit hit.



I see what you're getting at Baja.. i think you're saying the 5 hits with the store 21 tp is enough combined with the WS hit at +17 store tp to make the 6/100 build work. +21 store tp for all 6 hits is guaranteed. Baja is going into detail to see how much store TP you need on your tp/haste build for the 5 hits so that the +17 store TP WS hit makes a perfect 100% tp. So what we have to do is see exactly how much TP you get with +17... (to the nearest hundreth: '16.xx') subtract that number from 100 and then divide by 5 and make your tp/haste set equal to that number.

I'll go check it out.

 

[phishn]

And it's going over your head again. You're wearing an accuracy ring, it's at least a DEX ring so you get crits out of it, but it's for accuracy. That's what's so laughable, because there's no way you should need any more accuracy on sam now. BUt hey, you were also talking about TPing in myochin kote +1, so


For all the numbers you're copying and pasting from wiki, you really are slow. I never denied that I gained extra TP by being hit; what I denied was that the ONE hit that I received during my test did not give an impossible amount of TP that would prevent me from hitting 100% in 5 hits after a weapon skill. If the mob hits me and I end up at 100-102% on my 5th hit, that's when I fail, but 108%? You have to be retarded to think it's possible to gain that much TP by being hit, without using a myochin body. Removing my brutal earring would taint the test(I already had chiv chain on, if you were smart enough to look at the first screen shot); since I'm testing what gear I normally wear.

You're saying it's impossible, and yet I did it; hell I even showed proof. Not my fault if you're not smart enough to understand it.

I do not melee in Myochin Kote +1, I use to use it for WS only on /war, /nin prior to update. It is an option now if you have nothing better, I personally woudn't use it to build TP.

89% accuracy at mamool camp is good but not at the 95% cap(although the 89% accuracy is convoluted by initial misses replaced with zanshin hits). So explain how no accuracy or dex gear is needed eating meat. Depending if this extra 5 dex makes a difference stacked with Rajas and Byakko's for crits I may replace this ring with the TaU 4 acc, 4 attk one.

Your Base STR at 75 Sam/War is 67, mine is 80. Your Base Dex is 75, mine is 65.

So you have +10 dex/acc/crit hit potential more than I
I have +13 Str/attk more than you.


(I already had chiv chain on, if you were smart enough to look at the first screen shot)

I do stand corrected here, I did not see that you had a Chiv Chain, I assumed that was a Justice Torque. The calculations DO work out IF you want to wear Chiv Chain FULL TIME, and sacrifice Justice Torque/PCC,sea gorgets, or if you have not gotten the gorgets yet.

TP = 16.2 + 16.9 + 16.9 + 16.9 + 16.9 + 16.9 = 100.7 WIN

You did make up for the +5 Store TP needed on WS with an extra +1 Store TP for your 5 hits which works.

The statement that you need to wear one piece of Hachiman Full time if you do not have usukane still applies end build state. End build state, you will not want to use a chiv chain for your weapon skills. Sea gorget>Justice Torque> PCC> Chiv chain> spike necklace for WS.

You still have yet to prove where you got +83 Store TP in gear/food for your 25 TP return last strike.

If mob damage had nothing to do with this additional TP gain, or meditate, then where did it come from?

 

[Soujiro]

If you're getting a justice torque then your PCC is useless unless you got other jobs aside from drk or if you never plan on levelling any other melee jobs ever again and never do anything that would be level capped under 73.

-Fixed to be more accurate.

Also not to nitpick but you should take another look at your screenshots Baja. On my screen it shows:
The Lost Soul casts Thunder
Bajaratt takes 17 points of damage (1)
The Lost Soul casts Blizzard II
Bajaratt takes 102 points of damage (2)

Regarding DEX, anyone that is interested in trying to max crits by boosting DEX should do some searches for Nagamaki's posts on BG. I have personally done alot of testing on nin with dex builds but his are all documented pretty well and I've had similar results. Basically though there isn't much point in stacking dex unless you are totalling 100+. Of course what you are fighting is a huge factor as it's dependent on the mobs agi vs your dex but it's a decent number to use as a rule of thumb. Above 100 it seems that you will generally see increasing returns for every 5 additional points you put in.

Before anyone's blood pressure starts rising and feels the need to reply by calling me a moron or idiot like how every gear discussion seems to turn out I am in no way saying that all sam's should be using dex builds. I barely ever play the job much less mine is only around 25% merited so I wouldn't know. It was brought up so I am responding with some info for anyone that wants to do their own testing if they are interested in maxing crits.

 

[phishn]

Thanks for the DEX info soujiro. I have been looking around but could not find a good guide/tests regarding DEX and crits. Having 65 base, +5 rajas, +5 thunder, +15 byakkos someday = 90 DEX so the thunder ring may not be worthwhile. If so, I'll go with the TaU 4 acc 4 attk one when missions are done.