Hachiman question

Necrosis said:
hauby: 13~14 acc/att, 5STR 5DEX
togi: 10 acc, 20att

1.5~2% hitrate increase from hauby plus a moderate amount of STR (far from lol -- you need to melee in some STR due to the nature of fSTR) vs. 6~7 attack; this difference is greater when you use an HQ hauby.

togi is useless for SAM.
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3-4 accuracy is nothing at 75, unless you seriously suck at your job; enough to have not even used your primary weapon for months. You're obviously going to have some STR to melee in, again unless you seriously suck at your job. You're not going to notice a difference in your damage with 5 STR at that level. It'd push your cap up by 1-2 damage, an insignificant increase if you're doing your job right; and then you'd need a little more attack to actually make use of that slight improvement in your fSTR.

Togi is a good alternative to TP in, it's not useless unless you can't manage your inventory.
 
Bajaratt said:
3-4 accuracy is nothing at 75, unless you seriously suck at your job; enough to have not even used your primary weapon for months. You're obviously going to have some STR to melee in, again unless you seriously suck at your job. You're not going to notice a difference in your damage with 5 STR at that level. It'd push your cap up by 1-2 damage, an insignificant increase if you're doing your job right; and then you'd need a little more attack to actually make use of that slight improvement in your fSTR.

Togi is a good alternative to TP in, it's not useless unless you can't manage your inventory.
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SAM is really not going to be capping unless they're at colibris or popping sushi.

6 attack, whoopdy damn doo. Capped acc: forager's vs. charger's mantle on a body piece.
 
Necrosis said:
SAM is really not going to be capping unless they're at colibris or popping sushi.
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Capping, no, but you don't have to be at the cap to be at the point where returns are so diminished that it's not worth sacrificing for more.

For all your bitching on how it's not worth using, you haven't done anything to actually prove it. All you've done is show how they're pretty comparable. A minor increase in acc or a minor increase in attack; user's preference.
 
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If you are eatting meat what would benefit you more, 3-4 acc or 6-7 att?
 
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Bajaratt said:
Capping, no, but you don't have to be at the cap to be at the point where returns are so diminished that it's not worth sacrificing for more.
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1acc -> 0.5% hitrate, period (although it may possibly require more acc as hitrate gets close to approaching upper limit, but haven't seen anything conclusive on this).

Bajaratt said:
For all your bitching on how it's not worth using, you haven't done anything to actually prove it. All you've done is show how they're pretty comparable. A minor increase in acc or a minor increase in attack; user's preference.
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->
Itachiii said:
If you are eatting meat what would benefit you more, 3-4 acc or 6-7 att?
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this, basically.

The problem with extreme niche items is in practicality. Where do you draw the line? If you're capped acc in the first place, you're probably doing something so weak the attack won't make any noticeable difference, either; it's just not worth carrying around when hauby/+1 is unequivocally better the vast majority of the time.
 
Necrosis said:
it's just not worth carrying around when hauby/+1 is unequivocally better the vast majority of the time.
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It's only "unequivocally better" for weapon skills. For meleeing, they're virtually identical.

If my accuracy is fine, I'm going to stack on as much attack as I can. I usually walk around with 15-20 free slots in my inventory, so I can afford more options in my gear than those who can't manage as well.
 
I'd take a couple points of acc% and fstr benefits over minor attack any day, but ok, I can tell this is going in circles anyway.

All it takes is using dbody for tp in questionable scenarios where hauby would be better, and said benefits (if any) are lost. Like every charger's/gunner's mantle in existence, gear choices like this have their way of becoming fulltime.
 
Hm, askar body or haub+1? tp in askar ws in hq haub? my sam is 69 now... havent played in a while but i'd like to know which is better for different cases.
 
Eormanric said:
Hm, askar body or haub+1? tp in askar ws in hq haub? my sam is 69 now... havent played in a while but i'd like to know which is better for different cases.
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haub+1 for both?

massive acc loss dilutes any benefit you'd get from askar greatly, but it's still a decent piece on easier mobs. your best bet is to find a TP set that doesn't sacrifice hauby.
 
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Necrosis said:
haub+1 for both?

massive acc loss dilutes any benefit you'd get from askar greatly, but it's still a decent piece on easier mobs. your best bet is to find a TP set that doesn't sacrifice hauby.
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What about the store tp on askar? doesn't that make it easier to obtain a 6hit build so i can use better gear in other slots? or does it not weigh out better?
 
Well of course it didn't drop again last night... ; ;
 
Eormanric said:
What about the store tp on askar? doesn't that make it easier to obtain a 6hit build so i can use better gear in other slots? or does it not weigh out better?
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hauby+1 is a pretty fuckin huge sacrifice just to 6hit, why not use hachiman hands? you can WS in whatever the hell you want, but TP in rajas/brutal/hachiman hands iirc

16~17 acc/att + 6str/dex sacrifice for 5STR, 12 att, a 6-hit and 2% DA? vs. a couple points of haste on a hand slot for the same 6hit while freeing up other slots for whatever you want to WS in... pretty obvious imo.
 
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Necrosis said:
why not use hachiman hands?
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Because then you'd be giving up dusk hands. Or you could just use one of the +10 acc gloves, and make up the only real downside from not using hauby while maintaining your 6-hit build.
 
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Dropping the Hauby +1 for Askar body will result in a 8% decrease in accuracy.
 
so once you have dusk it'd be ok to get rid of hachiman hands and feet?

not asking in a sarcastic manner
 
K. Ishitar said:
so once you have dusk it'd be ok to get rid of hachiman hands and feet?

not asking in a sarcastic manner
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Not feet, you'd still need those for a 6-hit build.
 
Itachiii said:
Dropping the Hauby +1 for Askar body will result in a 8% decrease in accuracy.
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This is what i don't understand, people are so ready to swap a Haub(+1) for Askar to achieve a '6-hit' build without thinking, if you're sitting at 88% acc. and then swap, you're dropping to 80% acc. (i didn't know the % acc Haub provided before i assume Itachiii is correct). 6-hits wont get you over 100% TP if you miss one, so nothing is gained.
 
Bajaratt said:
Because then you'd be giving up dusk hands. Or you could just use one of the +10 acc gloves, and make up the only real downside from not using hauby while maintaining your 6-hit build.
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askar+dusk: STR5 ATT20~21 DA2 HA3
askar+noritsune: STR5 ATT15~16 ACC10 DA2
hauby+1 and hachiman kote: STR10 DEX6 ATT19~20 ACC16~17 (with added benefit of freeing up slots on WS)

If hit rate is anywhere below the upper range of 80% before body/hands slot, it's safe to say askar+dusk is the lowest dps combination, with hauby+1 a little bit above noritsune.
 
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