Hard work finally paying off

Bajaratt said:
It's been very noticable for me. I'm not allowed to go monk/war in aht urghan, but when I pull hate even as a monk/nin(only a little less often than monk/war), dumbass bandwagon war's don't voke it off me even after shadows are down and I'm taking a bunch of hits. With two people who have the IQ over a rock and can voke, it's not a big deal if only two people are smart enough to voke, but when it's only one person it's very wrong.
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As mnk/nin you should have no problem whatsoever keeping shadows up. I have 210 or 220 base evasion, -30 or so in gear, and for the most part can keep it up as well. If you're going to ws, you need to be sure shadows are ready. Why am I usually the last to engage a mob? If I have hate at the end of a fight, recasting ichi at the end is huge. Those 4 seconds go a long way to keeping the flow in a party.
Saying a Warrior should provoke off of you in a cannon situation made me lol.
1. Setup who is first voke, they use their voke, once, at the start of each fight.
2. Warriors or Other Nin's in party should be voking OTHER mobs, not the ones you're currently engaged to...ie the brd pulls so the brd doesn't get trounced. Sleeping mobs, etc. If you're going to ws early, be ready for worst case scenario, ie, you'll be tanking the rest of the fight. If you don't think you'll be able to, save your ws, but how a mnk/nin can't keep shadows up on these mobs is beyond me. I wouldn't have voked either if you pulled hate, because it wouldn't have been up.
Do the WARs on our server understand the proper mechanics of a cannon party? no. Is your example a good one? no.
 
jamal said:
1. Setup who is first voke, they use their voke, once, at the start of each fight.
2. Warriors or Other Nin's in party should be voking OTHER mobs, not the ones you're currently engaged to
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Number 2 is where 90% of WARs fail. If they would actually voke sleeping mobs, hate would bounce around moreso. To almost every single DD out there though, cannon party means someone else tanks while I do as much damage as possible. They are not aware of what is going on outide of their damage, except to get on the side of the mob so they can auto-engage the next mob.

I've spent over a hundred hours in ToAU cannons, and I've seen: 2 WARs that actually voked anything 1 DRK that stunned when someone else had hate

ps - Jamal is a bandwagon Ridill user
 
jamal said:
As mnk/nin you should have no problem whatsoever keeping shadows up. I have 210 or 220 base evasion, -30 or so in gear, and for the most part can keep it up as well. If you're going to ws, you need to be sure shadows are ready. Why am I usually the last to engage a mob? If I have hate at the end of a fight, recasting ichi at the end is huge. Those 4 seconds go a long way to keeping the flow in a party.
Saying a Warrior should provoke off of you in a cannon situation made me lol.
1. Setup who is first voke, they use their voke, once, at the start of each fight.
2. Warriors or Other Nin's in party should be voking OTHER mobs, not the ones you're currently engaged to...ie the brd pulls so the brd doesn't get trounced. Sleeping mobs, etc. If you're going to ws early, be ready for worst case scenario, ie, you'll be tanking the rest of the fight. If you don't think you'll be able to, save your ws, but how a mnk/nin can't keep shadows up on these mobs is beyond me. I wouldn't have voked either if you pulled hate, because it wouldn't have been up.
Do the WARs on our server understand the proper mechanics of a cannon party? no. Is your example a good one? no.
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Yeah, not sure if you're aware but there are moves which can wipe all shadows at once, and then if I'm hit while trying to recast, I'm basically fucked for trying to get shadows back up. Also, you're acting like every cannon always has 4 mobs at camp that need everyone to voke off the bard, when that's definitely not always the case. I'm not pulling hate with weaponskills anyways, most of the time it's just from melee, so I'm not doing anything stupid like WS'ing at the start and then bitching about pulling hate.

When there is only a SINGLE mob at the camp, and 3 warriors and only one of them provokes, the other two aren't doing their job. I'm happy you're not one of those bad warriors, but seriously, you are not the posterboy for the common warrior. What you do is NOT reflective of what the majority of the warriors do, so the fact that you're good enough to even use your provoke is irrelevant. If the other warriors didn't provoke it off of me because it was down because they were actually using it, I wouldn't complain, but they never use provoke ever.
 
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Stouter said:
ps - Jamal is a bandwagon Ridill user
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I want to be a bandwagon ridill user =/

On topic...I think on topic, I was given a 75 war by my buddy and voked slept mobs, the brd and rdm both sent me tells, I thought it was normal what I was doing. I've had /war on most jobs, and got war to 55 on Meeze, and figured that out pretty quickly. Mobs eat mages starting around 35+.

Find it kind or odd wars dont use the 1st JA they were given.
 
Most warriors don't because they went ~30 levels without needing to or wanting to use it. Most of the time, if a tank has lost hate for whatever reason (probably a NIN, PLD can keep hate easily or get it back fast), the person with hate wants to shed it fast. Rarely do mages have hate (I always voke if they do) and it's a melee that does. The problem is with me voking on top of my much higher damage output, the NIN will probably need more than just a voke to get hate off me and for most of those levels, voke is all they have (Ni wheel post 50 on a NIN is non-existant). A lot of the NINs I see out there don't understand party mechanics enough to work the job to it's full extent as a tank (1-2 in over a dozen parties actual do). They put on a bunch of accuracy, attack and strength gear in hopes of competing with me for damage and expect a voke every 30 seconds to suffice. It doesn't. They need some +enmity and most don't. Having partied with every subpar NIN, I can tell you it doesn't help my performance as a player or as a DD. I played with one NIN in that entire time from 60+ (around 10-15 parties), only one NIN in that entire time could I actually go all out.

Not suggesting WAR shouldn't voke, but in my experience, I get hate just by meleeing over a NIN. If I voke, it means I need to tank the rest of the mob until it dies. After doing that for about 20+ levels, I got used to avoiding voke just to save my own ass because when it comes down to it, no one else voked when I was getting pummeled.
 
Legomyeggo said:
After years and years of searching, I found you. I found you, you motherfucker. You couldn't hide from me, because I wasn't ready to stop. I wasn't ready to give up. Not for this.

Neo060913131921a.jpg


I found Waldo. I think it's safe to say I now have closure in my life knowing he wasn't just a figment of my imagination.


No but seriously, after a few months of busting my ass I finally got something worth having in this game:

GIMP.jpg


Rajas Ring sup
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So yea, this was the topic and stuff. . .
 
I'm just sad you guys started talking about bad brd's and my name wasn't mentioned. :( I hate you Kire how can you be known as a worse BRD then me. :( Kire's a bandwagon bad brd oh wait no he was first I guess that makes me a bandwagon bad brd CRAP!
 
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I'm gonna bandwagon getting off topic.

I had Panera Bread for lunch, it was fantastic. Asiago Roast Beef Sandwich and French Onion Soup. Definately hit the spot.








PS: congrats Neo and Eulore ^_^
Edit: Blancho = Bad bard ^.~
 
WOW That sounds good I'm a grab a bite to eat now and then go play brd and get some more merits. ^^ Thanks for the recognition Kotsu. ^^
 
Lavi said:
Not suggesting WAR shouldn't voke, but in my experience, I get hate just by meleeing over a NIN. If I voke, it means I need to tank the rest of the mob until it dies. After doing that for about 20+ levels, I got used to avoiding voke just to save my own ass because when it comes down to it, no one else voked when I was getting pummeled.
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We're talking merits here, where partying with good players you won't pull hate until you rampage or voke. Cannon party is about bouncing hate, if you have one person tanking 75% of the time, that's not a cannon. If you only have one person using provoke, that's not a cannon.

ps - my new pet peeve: warcry as a "omg 5 more damage on my rampage" tool
 
Stouter said:
We're talking merits here, where partying with good players you won't pull hate until you rampage or voke. Cannon party is about bouncing hate, if you have one person tanking 75% of the time, that's not a cannon. If you only have one person using provoke, that's not a cannon.

ps - my new pet peeve: warcry as a "omg 5 more damage on my rampage" tool
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10% more ATK (for NIN, I dunno if WAR's can boost that with gear) is a lot more potential then just 5 dmg more.
 
jamal said:
As mnk/nin you should have no problem whatsoever keeping shadows up.
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You'd be suprised how much of a difference a lack of Parry makes. I mean, yeah, you can Ni between hits easily, unless you're an idiot. But if Ni's on recast, you have Ichi, which isn't quite as easy to pull off. Playing BST, I've been saved by Parrying during a Blink or Stoneskin cast often to appreciate having it. Even if it's not constant, it still provides moments of avoiding a severe beating.

Sure, we've got counter. But without Counterstance going, it's completely unreliable. And as much as people bitch about MP Sponging, heaven help you if you manage to get hit. Not to mention the slim chance of parrying while shadows being up vs. the no chance of countering while shadows are up.
 
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Skaw said:
You'd be suprised how much of a difference a lack of Parry makes. I mean, yeah, you can Ni between hits easily, unless you're an idiot. But if Ni's on recast, you have Ichi, which isn't quite as easy to pull off. Playing BST, I've been saved by Parrying during a Blink or Stoneskin cast often to appreciate having it. Even if it's not constant, it still provides moments of avoiding a severe beating.

Sure, we've got counter. But without Counterstance going, it's completely unreliable. And as much as people bitch about MP Sponging, heaven help you if you manage to get hit. Not to mention the slim chance of parrying while shadows being up vs. the no chance of countering while shadows are up.
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The point is to go into the fight with the proper shadow setup skaw. Anyone can keep ichi ichi Ni up, or ichi ni ichi if you get ws'd. You don't rely on parry's to keep shadows up, just as mnk shouldn't rely on counter.
 
jamal said:
The point is to go into the fight with the proper shadow setup skaw. Anyone can keep ichi ichi Ni up, or ichi ni ichi if you get ws'd. You don't rely on parry's to keep shadows up, just as mnk shouldn't rely on counter.
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I'm not saying it's reliable at all, but to deny that it doesn't help when it does occur is pretty silly.
 
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