Health care bill passed in house

[Sirelrohir]

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/66841-healthcare-bill-clears-house

ps: thought this pic was funny

 

[Dejavu]

Well... I currently don't have health insurance nor do i plan on getting it anytime soon... and there is no way in hell i am paying the 1900 dollar a year fine for not having health insurance so i guess... i will be going to jail soon enough seeing as the penalty for refusing to pay the fine is 25000 and 1 year in jail.

Dear Congress... fuck you.

Sincerely... the people your fucking over.

And before someone says oh but you pay for car insurance and that is required to drive a car... i will concede this but explain why it does not apply.

First driving a car is a choice... being alive is not. They are now taxing me for living. Secondly you are not required to have insurance that covers yourself, you are required to have insurance that covers the passengers of your car and the other cars involved.

 

[Halifirien]

Sweet. Here's hoping Stupak-Pitts is removed in conference with the Senate. If the government wants to compete with private insurance, they shouldn't do it by refusing coverage for a basic, legal medical procedure paid for with insurance premiums.

 

[Khajit]

Well should the US government really be forced to pay for something that could have been prevented by not being stupid aka using a condom?
By that same token that means they shouldnt be paying or at least have limited coverage for any condition resulting from tobacco smoking.

Think of it the same way that an insurance company views high risk behaviors. If you do something dangerous without any safety measures constantly they could refuse to give you insurance because you arent taking your safety seriously and will cost them money much sooner. Eg you drive in a shiny metal deathtrap with no seat-belt while constantly getting caught speeding,while you might have slightly poor vision,while texting and drunk. If the insurance company finds out damn skippy they would refuse to cover you after the contract wears off although they'd have to pay for the medical bills until then. Getting an abortion shows that you usually willingly did not engage in simple safety measures that would have preemptively stopped the company from losing so much on your bills in the first place.

 

[Halifirien]

Well should the US government really be forced to pay for something that could have been prevented by not being stupid aka using a condom?

The money to pay for it comes from the health insurance premiums men and women would be paying. It's covered by most private insurance plans. I don't think they should remove from the public insurance plan because religious people don't approve of a perfectly legal medical procedure that's none of their business.

Birth control isn't 100% effective, and even then you have pregnancies that start out planned but go awry or face unforeseen complications. There's another thread about a fertility clinic screwing up and implanting a woman with the wrong embryo; I don't think anyone would've blamed that woman if she'd ended the pregnancy instead of carrying it to term and handing the baby over to the other couple.

Tax money pays for stuff we don't like all the time. I don't remember anyone giving me the option of not having my tax money going to supplement faith-based organizations or to fund idiotic wars that didn't serve our national interest, but there you are. Why should this be any different?

Like I said, I hope that amendment is dropped in conference.

 

[Celvantes]

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/24955.html

The tax burden of the top 1% of this country is greater than the sum total of the bottom 95% of this country.

No matter how you cut it, health care is going to result in increased government expenditures, which, one way or another will require more money from the tax payer.

Bottom line - the top 1% of this country will be paying most of the health care bill for the rest of the nation.

Ayn Rand summarized my opinion on this perfectly:

“If you saw Atlas, the giant who holds the world on his shoulders, if you saw that he stood, blood running down his chest, his knees buckling, his arms trembling but still trying to hold the world aloft with the last of his strength, and the greater his effort the heavier the world bore down on his shoulders—what would you tell him to do?” " To Shrug."

I'm not nearly as eloquent, but I think my meaning is essentially the same:

Spoiler:

Congress - go fuck yourselves.

 

[motley]

it squeeked by in the house, just over 50%

the same margin will not get the bill passed in the senate, sure the senate is almost philabuster proof but the dems are split on this also.

I havent read extensively nor am i well versed in the issue... my union guarantees me health coverage whether i want it or not and thus I never needed to care....

But I dont know how i feel about this, Obama will be officially 2.4 trillion in the hole, but at least that money will be spent here... there are opposers that argue this bill would cripple the healthcare industry that accounts for 1/6th of the countries economy which is ridiculous, guaranteeing everyone healthcare would not only bolster the industry with people that have a means to pay for their healthcare now but will also slash the ledgers of hospitals that take losses on uncovered people that they are forced to treat by law.

As an afterthought, those uncovered people are why hospital care is so expensive, if everyone is covered that cost will come down for everyone.

But skeptics get paid well, so sell your healthcare related stocks monday at opening bell, they are going to take a HUGE hit

this would go over better for me if there was some sort of plan to reduce the trade deficit, were literally bleeding 1 trillion a year just by buying foreign products.... but at least its not making things worse.

 

[Tagrineth]

Well... I currently don't have health insurance nor do i plan on getting it anytime soon... and there is no way in hell i am paying the 1900 dollar a year fine for not having health insurance so i guess... i will be going to jail soon enough seeing as the penalty for refusing to pay the fine is 25000 and 1 year in jail.

They were saying the bill is also going to reduce costs of health insurance too, if I'm not mistaken... so while yes, you will have an extra expense, it won't be $1900/yr

 

[Zephayra]

Well should the US government really be forced to pay for something that could have been prevented by not being stupid aka using a condom?

I didn't know a condom could prevent me from getting a broken leg, cancer, bronchitus, tb.. etc. It's easy to write off certain illnesses and medical problems with someone's lack of judgement, but there are legit cases of people getting sick or hurt that was beyond their control.

 

[Romper]

it squeeked by in the house, just over 50%

the same margin will not get the bill passed in the senate, sure the senate is almost philabuster proof but the dems are split on this also.

I havent read extensively nor am i well versed in the issue... my union guarantees me health coverage whether i want it or not and thus I never needed to care....

But I dont know how i feel about this, Obama will be officially 2.4 trillion in the hole, but at least that money will be spent here... there are opposers that argue this bill would cripple the healthcare industry that accounts for 1/6th of the countries economy which is ridiculous, guaranteeing everyone healthcare would not only bolster the industry with people that have a means to pay for their healthcare now but will also slash the ledgers of hospitals that take losses on uncovered people that they are forced to treat by law.

As an afterthought, those uncovered people are why hospital care is so expensive, if everyone is covered that cost will come down for everyone.

But skeptics get paid well, so sell your healthcare related stocks monday at opening bell, they are going to take a HUGE hit

this would go over better for me if there was some sort of plan to reduce the trade deficit, were literally bleeding 1 trillion a year just by buying foreign products.... but at least its not making things worse.

It should be noted that barely over 50% passing probably means that had a quorum (iirc a quorum in the house is like 85 members). That quorum had enough to come to a consensus apparently which is a bit surprising. In the last legislative term of the year why wouldn't the opposing side make sure they had EVERYONE there?

It's easier to get things passed in the Senate only needing 51 votes. Hopefully Obama isn't so stupid to sign this in with a rubber stamp. WTB Smart usage of a veto.

 

[Dejavu]

Sweet. Here's hoping Stupak-Pitts is removed in conference with the Senate. If the government wants to compete with private insurance, they shouldn't do it by refusing coverage for a basic, legal medical procedure paid for with insurance premiums.

Absolutely not. If someone wants that done they should have to pay for it out of pocket. It is an elective surgery much like a boob job.

Well should the US government really be forced to pay for something that could have been prevented by not being stupid aka using a condom?
By that same token that means they shouldnt be paying or at least have limited coverage for any condition resulting from tobacco smoking.

Agreed

The money to pay for it comes from the health insurance premiums men and women would be paying. It's covered by most private insurance plans. I don't think they should remove from the public insurance plan because religious people don't approve of a perfectly legal medical procedure that's none of their business.

Birth control isn't 100% effective, and even then you have pregnancies that start out planned but go awry or face unforeseen complications. There's another thread about a fertility clinic screwing up and implanting a woman with the wrong embryo; I don't think anyone would've blamed that woman if she'd ended the pregnancy instead of carrying it to term and handing the baby over to the other couple.

Tax money pays for stuff we don't like all the time. I don't remember anyone giving me the option of not having my tax money going to supplement faith-based organizations or to fund idiotic wars that didn't serve our national interest, but there you are. Why should this be any different?

Like I said, I hope that amendment is dropped in conference.

Insurance shouldn’t be paying for it either unless it threatens the life of the kid the reason they do is strangely enough because they are profit motivated. Having a baby is expensive and it is cheaper to do a little pipe cleaning at 3 months or so.

Ayn Rand summarized my opinion on this perfectly:

I never would have guessed you to be a fan of Atlas Shrugged.

But I dont know how i feel about this, Obama will be officially 2.4 trillion in the hole, but at least that money will be spent here... there are opposers that argue this bill would cripple the healthcare industry that accounts for 1/6th of the countries economy which is ridiculous, guaranteeing everyone healthcare would not only bolster the industry with people that have a means to pay for their healthcare now but will also slash the ledgers of hospitals that take losses on uncovered people that they are forced to treat by law.

As an afterthought, those uncovered people are why hospital care is so expensive, if everyone is covered that cost will come down for everyone.

But skeptics get paid well, so sell your healthcare related stocks monday at opening bell, they are going to take a HUGE hit

this would go over better for me if there was some sort of plan to reduce the trade deficit, were literally bleeding 1 trillion a year just by buying foreign products.... but at least its not making things worse.

I am going to have to disagree it is government intervention in the past which has made the problem what it is today not the uninsured. Because of mandates I am not able to get the health insurance that I want because it is not acceptable coverage in my state and is therefore not offered. I want a policy that covers almost nothing… I want it to have a 5000 dollar deductible and only cover some kind of catastrophic event but because of people who think like Hali coverage that doesn’t cover everything is unacceptable. Because I am not allowed to get what I want for the last … 2.5 years I have gone completely without insurance because it is cheaper and I don’t exactly have a risky lifestyle. Yes I am taking a risk and no I don’t necessarily want to take this risk but what I do not feel like budgeting for or having the kind of insurance that is offered here and I decided I will take my chances.

Beyond this the reason costs are so high in the first place is due to the regulation that a while ago the government decided that an emergency room is not allowed to turn away anyone regardless of their ability to pay or insurance status. Because of this the costs to those who are able to pay skyrocket to cover those who are not and the uninsured use the emergency room for general care because for all intents and purposes … it is free. Beyond that the 2.4 trillion was the estimate for this year before anything healthcare related which is supposed to be another trillion. And as the past has shown us any estimate for costs are always grossly understated.

Medicare (hospital insurance). In 1965, as Congress considered legislation to establish a national Medicare program, the House Ways and Means Committee estimated that the hospital insurance portion of the program, Part A, would cost about $9 billion annually by 1990.v Actual Part A spending in 1990 was $67 billion. The actuary who provided the original cost estimates acknowledged in 1994 that, even after conservatively discounting for the unexpectedly high inflation rates of the early ‘70s and other factors, “the actual [Part A] experience was 165% higher than the estimate.”
Medicare (entire program). In 1967, the House Ways and Means Committee predicted that the new Medicare program, launched the previous year, would cost about $12 billion in 1990. Actual Medicare spending in 1990 was $110 billion—off by nearly a factor of 10.
Medicaid DSH program. In 1987, Congress estimated that Medicaid’s disproportionate share hospital (DSH) payments—which states use to provide relief to hospitals that serve especially large numbers of Medicaid and uninsured patients—would cost less than $1 billion in 1992. The actual cost that year was a staggering $17 billion. Among other things, federal lawmakers had failed to detect loopholes in the legislation that enabled states to draw significantly more money from the federal treasury than they would otherwise have been entitled to claim under the program’s traditional 50-50 funding scheme.
Medicare home care benefit. When Congress debated changes to Medicare’s home care benefit in 1988, the projected 1993 cost of the benefit was $4 billion. The actual 1993 cost was more than twice that amount, $10 billion.
Medicare catastrophic coverage benefit. In 1988, Congress added a catastrophic coverage benefit to Medicare, to take effect in 1990. In July 1989, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) doubled its cost estimate for the program, for the four-year period 1990-1993, from $5.7 billion to $11.8 billion. CBO explained that it had received newer data showing it had significantly under-estimated prescription drug cost growth, and it warned Congress that even this revised estimate might be too low. This was a principal reason Congress repealed the program before it could take effect.
SCHIP. In 1997, Congress established the State Children’s Health Insurance Program as a capped grant program to states, and appropriated $40 billion to be doled out to states over 10 years at a rate of roughly $5 billion per year, once implemented. In each year, some states exceeded their allotments, requiring shifts of funds from other states that had not done so. By 2006, unspent reserves from prior years were nearly exhausted. To avert mass disenrollments, Congress decided to appropriate an additional $283 million in FY 2006 and an additional $650 million in FY 2007.

http://jec.senate.gov/republicans/p...orm_Cost_Estimates_Reliable__July_31_2009.pdf

They were saying the bill is also going to reduce costs of health insurance too, if I'm not mistaken... so while yes, you will have an extra expense, it won't be $1900/yr

That 1900 a year is not a tax out of my pay check that is an additional fine that I would receive for choosing not to have health insurance. Therefore my cost would go from 0 to 1900 and I would receive no benefits from it.

I didn't know a condom could prevent me from getting a broken leg, cancer, bronchitus, tb.. etc. It's easy to write off certain illnesses and medical problems with someone's lack of judgement, but there are legit cases of people getting sick or hurt that was beyond their control.

He was referring to the amendment that Hali thinks should be removed that would make it so that government run healthcare couldn’t ever pay for abortions. Therefore a condom is the answer for the most part.

It should be noted that barely over 50% passing probably means that had a quorum (iirc a quorum in the house is like 85 members). That quorum had enough to come to a consensus apparently which is a bit surprising. In the last legislative term of the year why wouldn't the opposing side make sure they had EVERYONE there?

It's easier to get things passed in the Senate only needing 51 votes. Hopefully Obama isn't so stupid to sign this in with a rubber stamp. WTB Smart usage of a veto.

Actually every single member of the House was present and voted. If given the chance Obama will stamp this without a second thought.

 

[Dancingweapon]

American health care confuses the shit out of me.

 

[Eilistrae]

me too DW lol What needs fixed with insurance is, if you need a procedure or a medicine, you shouldn't have to jump through hoops in order to get it. I haven't read this bill, but I really hope that is going to be addressed as well and not just coverage.

 

[Elemmire]

I think making ANY insurance forced on a person to pay is bullshit.. to some regards I can accept car since driving isn't a right, it's a privilege.. but still.. it's bullshit -_- it's the same bullshit as making a seatbelt legal.. if I don't care to pay for my own safety WHY SHOULD I?! :|

though maybe I'm confusing something.. gonna go reread this article >.>

 

[Morcheeba]

Probably because they are legally binded to help save you if you end up fucking yourself up.

 

[Celvantes]

One of the biggest, Deja. What's frightening to me is when the caricature of bad government she illustrates in that book sounds almost exactly like the government we have now.

 

[Dejavu]

I have a 24 inch sculpture of Atlas in my room because of that book.

Also i found this video about the bill fairly interesting.

 

[Mattaru]

I have work today, maybe afterwords. I don't really know if I want to deal with Libertarians though, I'll just get bombarded by links to a bunch of websites and youtube videos.

 

[alanon]

The money to pay for it comes from the health insurance premiums men and women would be paying. It's covered by most private insurance plans. I don't think they should remove from the public insurance plan because religious people don't approve of a perfectly legal medical procedure that's none of their business.

Elective procedures SHOULD NOT be covered. Period. I do not care if it's an abortion or a tummy tuck. Whatever your religious views, (except in extreme cases) abortion is an elective preocedure.

Those premiums you speak of? Great, mine are higher because someone else wants an abortion and that's bad enough. I don't want my tax money going to it as well.

 

[motley]

I agree with alanon... elective procedures should not be covered....


I want people to think about the ripple effect this could have on prices though.... we are ALREADY paying for the cost of uncovered people, everytime we step in the emergency room we are paying an inflated cost to cover the care of uninsured people that must be treated BY LAW....

Even people like dejavu who chooses to be uninsured by choice are still hit with this inflated cost if he ever needs to see a doctor or go to a hospital.... this plan will END those red spots on the ledger, bringing down the price for everyone.

Sure it benefits some people more than others, and of course the money will come from taxes, but I think people fail to realize that this is money they are already shelling out regardless of your current coverage status.

So the benefit comes in the form of price regulation, reform, budget balancing that could lead to better care and better staff at public hospitals..... toppling of price gauging and monopolized private medicine....

The main opponents to this often fail to see beyond the immediate impact, and, i could be dead wrong....

Ultimately Ill say this, if the american tax pool and economy was a swimming pool and you filled up one bucket from one side and poured it into the other you wouldnt lose any water.

This is something that we can all benefit from, every single one of us, you just have to look beyond the immediate costs, because money always comes full circle.