Hell Hath No Fury Like a "Woman" Scorned

I mostly feel bad for the members in the shell that didn't know. Crosis, i agree with your post. Why the fuck would you guys?
 
Sabia said:
I'm not getting into this argument, but you're an idiot. Kaizen isn't tanking, we're not botters and this whole thing had nothing to do with the main shell. I'd appreciate it if all you ill-informed vultures would back the hell off and go watch a soap opera or something for your daily dose of drama. Think I'm a cheater? Whatever helps you sleep at night I guess.
Click to expand...

Whoa. Wait a second. At what point did the word "Kaizen" appear in my post? Don't get ahead of yourself. Further, I didn't accuse anyone of cheating that didn't cheat. I never said a word about botting, I never said a thing about Kaizen going down. In fact, if you'd look back a few pages, I AGREED in saying that what's left of Kaizen should reform and make themselves a new shell.

Right now, Kaizen is synonymous with Kisada and Meast, two people who are

1) Banned

2) The subject of a lot of negative attention

Before you go adding to the drama pile, read what's been written. And stop thinking this flame is about Kaizen; its about he people who led it, not the people in it. Everyone here has wished the remainders of the shell well, in fact.

Christ.
 
Lyall said:
Whoa. Wait a second. At what point did the word "Kaizen" appear in my post? Don't get ahead of yourself. Further, I didn't accuse anyone of cheating that didn't cheat. I never said a word about botting, I never said a thing about Kaizen going down. In fact, if you'd look back a few pages, I AGREED in saying that what's left of Kaizen should reform and make themselves a new shell.

Right now, Kaizen is synonymous with Kisada and Meast, two people who are

1) Banned

2) The subject of a lot of negative attention

Before you go adding to the drama pile, read what's been written. And stop thinking this flame is about Kaizen; its about he people who led it, not the people in it. Everyone here has wished the remainders of the shell well, in fact.

Christ.
Click to expand...

You said "Might not have always been that way, but you know what they say about a bad apple."

A bad apple spoils the bunch is the saying, isn't it?

I'm tired of hearing statements like the above mentioned in your previous post. Kaizen is full of good, skilled, honest people. I'm not going to comment on the right/wrong of this situation but will put Meast, Kisada and the rest of the bunch in that good people category anyday.
 
Lyall said:
Laughing at the idiots who got themselves banned has nothing to do with jealousy, mate. Its got to do with the best linkshell in the game getting tanked because at least one of the cocky sons of bitches cheated to prosper.

Might not have always been that way, but you know what they say about a bad apple.
Click to expand...

I really don't understand this concept at all. To me this sentiment is nothing short of delusional to think that duping salvage drops is how Kaizen prospered. Regardless of anything else, its just insane to think that a few pieces of salvage gear changed a damn thing, for the most part gear does not change whether you win or lose (especially gear that has other slightly weaker options, which is true of all the salvage gear).

I don't even like several people in Kaizen considering how they treated some of my own shell mates (im sure the feeling is mutual) so Im definitely not backing my buddies here, but this is just stupid.
 
Sabia said:
I'm not getting into this argument, but you're an idiot. Kaizen isn't tanking, we're not botters and this whole thing had nothing to do with the main shell. I'd appreciate it if all you ill-informed vultures would back the hell off and go watch a soap opera or something for your daily dose of drama. Think I'm a cheater? Whatever helps you sleep at night I guess.
Click to expand...

Are you a cheater? I couldn't say one way or another, but going by this thread, I don't believe so no.


Not sure what Lyall meant, but the whole bad apple thing imo just means their actions tainted the name for the rest of the shell that will continue to work hard at the goals you've all set forth for yourselves.

The people in Kaizen that ARE cheaters have been named, that's as far as it goes. If people want to assume all members were in on it then yeah they ARE idiots. Let them speculate Sabia seriously. Shit let the whole server conjure ridiculous stories now about Kaizen that have no substance. Ultimately if all that are remaining in your shell are honest and hard working you should be more than dedicated now to build the esteem of Kaizen up and beyond what it once was. This time, with the 'Bad Apples' having been filtered out.

Good luck to the rest of the members of Kaizen.
 
Sabia said:
I'm not going to comment on the right/wrong of this situation but will put Meast, Kisada and the rest of the bunch in that good people category anyday.
Click to expand...

That's letting the terrorists win.

Zoolander said:
I really don't understand this concept at all. To me this sentiment is nothing short of delusional to think that duping salvage drops is how Kaizen prospered. Regardless of anything else, its just insane to think that a few pieces of salvage gear changed a damn thing, for the most part gear does not change whether you win or lose (especially gear that has other slightly weaker options, which is true of all the salvage gear).

I don't even like several people in Kaizen considering how they treated some of my own shell mates (im sure the feeling is mutual) so Im definitely not backing my buddies here, but this is just stupid.
Click to expand...


Not to be that guy, but

intr.v. pros·pered, pros·per·ing, pros·pers
To be fortunate or successful, especially in terms of one's finances; thrive.

I'm fairly certain duplicating salvage gear falls into those terms.

THAT said, you're playing down the fact that people CHEATED. Don't try to justify this, or make it less than it is.

(I know, boo me for calling in the meaning of a word. Using the actual terminology is cheating in an argument about friends!)
 
Morcheeba said:
Not sure what Lyall meant, but the whole bad apple thing imo just means their actions tainted the name for the rest of the shell that will continue to work hard at the goals you've all set forth for yourselves.
Click to expand...

This, exactly.
 
I have not played since I've retried, but I am a bit curious if SE had amended their banning policies. In three separate threads, we have Meatsoso and Kisada being banned (permanently) and Siresativa only being temp banned for participating in the exact same exploit. So why the discrepancies in the punishment?
 
Sabia said:
I'm not getting into this argument, but you're an idiot. Kaizen isn't tanking, we're not botters and this whole thing had nothing to do with the main shell. I'd appreciate it if all you ill-informed vultures would back the hell off and go watch a soap opera or something for your daily dose of drama. Think I'm a cheater? Whatever helps you sleep at night I guess.
Click to expand...

I can't imagine anyone actually thinking *you* ever cheated. I know that would never cross my mind. I imagine everyone thinks you're one of the game's good people. There are still a few. I actually feel bad that you, and pretty much only you, I don't care about the others, have to be associated with any of this. The whole Kaizen situation is what happens when people put themselves on a pedestal of high moral standing, and are then exposed as undeserving. This scandal won't make the linkshell implode or anything. All it will do, at most, is bring them down to everyone else's level - not necessarily skill wise, but morally. Were the people banned good people? Maybe. I never chatted to all of them daily. Were they good players? Probably better than me even without cheats, but definitely no longer the cream of the crop as once touted.
 
Candia said:
I have not played since I've retried, but I am a bit curious if SE had amended their banning policies. In three separate threads, we have Meatsoso and Kisada being banned (permanently) and Siresativa only being temp banned for participating in the exact same exploit. So why the discrepancies in the punishment?
Click to expand...

Only people with previous marks on their account got perm banned. Meast and Kisada probably had something for MPKing back when the JP's used to steal shit from them all the time. Im pretty sure kaizen's policy around then was something like "If you steal from us we intend to take it back."

This will probably be flamed as most of you qcdn kiddies weren't around when GM's used to let JP's run shit. Want a refresher in history? Look at the first threads in the flameboard and how many were about the JP's racism.

And for those of you who can't understand zoolander's post he's not downplaying the cheating. (I'm sure zoolander wasn't disapointed to see them go) He's just one of the few people smart enough to see that kaizen's ability to kill shit wasn't created because of it. Kaizen and perseverance were the only two shells worth a shit on this game when I quit and I doubt anything will or has changed.
 
Tailss said:
Only people with previous marks on their account got perm banned. Meast and Kisada probably had something for MPKing back when the JP's used to steal shit from them all the time. Im pretty sure kaizen's policy around then was something like "If you steal from us we intend to take it back."
Click to expand...

Yeah that was Kaizen's policy back in the day of JP MPK, but I've been told they had no previous strikes. And from what I read on BG, many people w/o previous strikes got perma'd.
 
Don't wanna look it up again but someone posted some GM convo that stated the alliance leaders got perma'd regardless of past record (since they were required to do the actual glitch), the people in the alliance that openly discussed what was happening got temp bans, and the people in the alliance who "innocently" said or did nothing just got a warning put on their account. So assuming this is true, that'd mean only kisada or meas ever actually lead any of these alliances and sire at some point was discussing what was happening at the time. Don't know if this is true but seems to be a reasonable explanation.
 
meastoso said:
Speaking of Homam items, let’s discuss limbus a bit. When limbus was released, barely anyone was doing it frequently and barely anyone could regularly kill ultima. Yes, some things in this game were challenging when they came out, who would have thought things in FFXI at one point required skill. When Kaizen began doing limbus as a linkshell, just like any other linkshell event, it was done for the betterment of the linkshell, and so the job that made the most use out of Homam Legs, Hands and Feet at the time was by far PLD. Nobody gives a fuck if a THF hits Nidhogg for 1 dmg 9% faster, but it allowed for better tanking and more efficient killing.
Click to expand...

I'm just gonna toss this out here. You have a huge attitude problem when making leadership decisions and the mostly stem from a horrible bias against people. In this case Phraust. Since you assumed when he argued that PLD shouldn't have been top priority on every piece that he wanted it for himself, you were temporarily blinded to the reality you later discovered; which was that other jobs could better use the gear... If you didn't agree you wouldn't have ever changed it. You guys were just so blinded with hate you couldn't see logic. Nothing new there though.

It's such a straw man argument too. You are making it sound like you don't know how to play the game and the general mechanics of each of the jobs elude you. Gearing a THF is just as important as gearing a PLD which is as important as gearing a NIN. They are all deeply involved in tanking. If the only thing you look at when you decide what gear to give a THF is the damage from the regular melee hits you're doing it wrong. Clearly getting the hits in faster leads to faster TP return which leaders to larger WS which are huge from a THF on HNMS because of the dual purpose of their skills. They get a guaranteed crit and they get to place hate wherever it is needed while doing so. A THF is the best peice of gear that a tank can get.

To further define how strongly you hate THF, you routinely used it as a punishment job for Phraust. This is how fucking stupid and self sabotaging Kaizen's leadership was. Phraust has a completely decked out Rydil WAR, Kraken DRK, Relic SAM, and there were other THFs in the LS who wanted to play THF and they would make Phraust come THF instead. That is the level at which you helped the LS and cared about their successes. To top that all off they put a Gjallahorn in your hands and you were a shitty BRD. If your lack of skill weren't the issue, your continued vendetta against Phraust would be.

If a normal linkshell had a relic wielding SAM and they noticed his damage wasn't high, and he had the best gear he could equip, the response wouldn't be "This guy sucks". It would be, "That WS seems to suck" and they would buff him up more if they wanted him to keep using it. In Kaizen, maybe it was because Meas was a shitty BRD, or maybe it was the fact that they valued criticizing people over actually supporting someone with a support job, either way, that support would never come. Honestly, there was really nothing more Phraust could do for his stats as these were the pinnacle of DPS job/weapon/gear options in the game. Common sense would say, "even a retard on auto-attack would deal more damage than Meast claims!" If course, that is correct because Meast is clearly exaggerating every point he attempts to make, only to show that had the LS not been directed away from helping one of their top melee, per his and Kis' instruction that there would have been nothing to complain about. Meast caused everything he criticizes.

meastoso said:
Dynamis: Friday dynamis could give a fuck about your relic/sponsoring, I HAD to lead it because had we left you in a major role the runs would have gone to complete shit, and 99% of the people were there for reasons other than your relic and we just couldn’t let someone like Phraust fuck up runs for everyone else. You single-handedly ruined runs with your terrible pulling tactics, and it forced me to either pull myself or teach someone who was capable of doing it. Anyone who regularly attended dynamis on Fridays while you were sponsoring can attest to how efficient the runs were when I or Kisada led them.
Click to expand...

This is actually a really simple one to argue against. As it is really just wishful thinking. I mean, if you wanted to clear a Dynamis zone Phraust was the one to get it done. Most of the times when he was pulling and we all wiped, it was because you decided to jump in and pull something while he was pulling. The quoted paragraph above is perhaps one of the funniest things you could have said about Dynamis as everything you blame Phraust for was actually you. But the reason they say ignorance is bliss is because the ignorant are too stupid to know they are. Go ahead and enjoy that warm feeling calling someone else out for your own short comings must give you.
 
Bigboy said:
To top that all off they put a Gjallahorn in your hands and you were a shitty BRD. If your lack of skill weren't the issue, your continued vendetta against Phraust would be.
Click to expand...

Meastoso was by far the best bard I've ever merited with. Meriting is obviously not everything but the rest of the game for bard is a joke. Meast can hit two macros with the best of them and I guarantee he had better gear then any of the other bards. To say meastoso was a poorly skilled bard is hilarious, bard in end game events literally involves no skill.
 
Tailss said:
Meastoso was by far the best bard I've ever merited with. Meriting is obviously not everything but the rest of the game for bard is a joke. Meast can hit two macros with the best of them and I guarantee he had better gear then any of the other bards. To say meastoso was a poorly skilled bard is hilarious, bard in end game events literally involves no skill.
Click to expand...

AND YET... as simple as you make it sound, the fact still remains BRDs like Trump and yourself were far better at not hitting melee's with ballads and keeping BRD debuffs on mobs. As you said though, merit BRD is not the same. A merit BRD is responsible for 1 never changing PT that follows a set cycle of behavior. Often only having to ballad one person who may not move an inch the whole time. Hardly comparable, and generally irrelevant.

I do like how you say BRD in end game involves no skill though. Completing things without a skilled BRD doesn't mean that an endgame BRD doesn't involve skill, it means everyone else was able to make up for the lack-there-of.

Of course, if your argument is correct, then that leaves the alternative I provided above:

Bigboy said:
If your lack of skill weren't the issue, your continued vendetta against Phraust would be.
Click to expand...

If you are right then he was just such an ass that he purposefully sabotaged LS events. Either way, good riddance.
 
Bigboy you really have no idea what you're talking about. Meriting on bard in a roaming melee burn party while pulling and keeping ballad and melee buffs on the appropriate people is the only thing that takes any skill. Meast was literally amazing at this.

Honestly with his relic meast was forced into almost always playing one of if not the most boring and repetitive jobs in the entire game. If he ever had trouble keeping melees with decent buffs it was probably because he was bored out of his mind and only paying half attention during some boring event that you had no change of failing. I'm surprised he was still playing honestly, and make no mistake the only reason he was still around since becoming a full time bard was to help the members of kaizen.
 
Tailss said:
Bigboy you really have no idea what you're talking about. Meriting on bard in a roaming melee burn party while pulling and keeping ballad and melee buffs on the appropriate people is the only thing that takes any skill. Meast was literally amazing at this.

Honestly with his relic meast was forced into almost always playing one of if not the most boring and repetitive jobs in the entire game. If he ever had trouble keeping melees with decent buffs it was probably because he was bored out of his mind and only paying half attention during some boring event that you had no change of failing. I'm surprised he was still playing honestly, and make no mistake the only reason he was still around since becoming a full time bard was to help the members of kaizen.
Click to expand...

Just because you don't like what I say doesn't mean I don't know what I am talking about...

I'll let the fact that you said he was too bored to do his job right shoot holes in the argument of how good a BRD he was.

Meast wasn't forced to go BRD as often as you would expect, probably because he was a leader. He would instead insist on coming NIN when there were already enough tanks, or would come MNK for adds on Vrtra, which again could have easily been handled by many of the other members in the LS that weren't holding precious items like a relic horn. His dedication to helping the LS was only as strong as his daily whims.

I can see what you mean though when you say helping. He helped 4 other LS members get banned and lost the guild bank. If I had help like him in RL, I'd probably be dead.
 
Bigboy said:
Meast wasn't forced to go BRD as often as you would expect, probably because he was a leader. He would instead insist on coming NIN when there were already enough tanks, or would come MNK for adds on Vrtra, which again could have easily been handled by many of the other members in the LS that weren't holding precious items like a relic horn. His dedication to helping the LS was only as strong as his daily whims.
Click to expand...

haha~
 
Again you really have no idea what you're talking about. Monks are far more important during vrtra then having a relic bard running around trying to spam ballad on people chasing a kited mob.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top