Hypothetical Question

[CmdrFly]

Good point, it'd be an option. Personally I'd go dual axe and profit from max merits + one sea torque for both hands. In current terms, we're basically comparing meater/joytoy to ridill/joytoy with the exception of meater/joytoy having same skill rating in both hands. For reality's sake I believe the parses put ridill/joytoy just marginally ahead of meater/joytoy on VTs.

Mainhand Meater or Woody for the big base and offhand the... man we need a name for this theoretical weapon. Ridill would be a piece for the sexin' gearswap.

Talk about system shock, Ridill used for show only.

 

[Celvantes]

Joyaxe? lol, I like the sound of it.

Does anyone have any parser numbers on Ridill/Joyeuse? I'm curious as to how many times all 5 hits proc.

Imagine if WAR could wear the Homam Corazza (Triple Attack +2.5%). That + Warrior's Cuisses + Fighter's Calligae + Brutal Earring = OMGWTFBBQ. You'd never stop swinging.

 

[Laubibent]

Joyaxe? lol, I like the sound of it.

Does anyone have any parser numbers on Ridill/Joyeuse? I'm curious as to how many times all 5 hits proc.

Imagine if WAR could wear the Homam Corazza (Triple Attack +2.5%). That + Warrior's Cuisses + Fighter's Calligae + Brutal Earring = OMGWTFBBQ. You'd never stop swinging.

would not like to party with that guy on my laptop he would lag me out D:

 

[Rufus_Shinra]

Joyaxe? lol, I like the sound of it.

Does anyone have any parser numbers on Ridill/Joyeuse? I'm curious as to how many times all 5 hits proc.

Imagine if WAR could wear the Homam Corazza (Triple Attack +2.5%). That + Warrior's Cuisses + Fighter's Calligae + Brutal Earring = OMGWTFBBQ. You'd never stop swinging.

O.O
>.<
O.O

Hundred Fists....warrior style......ouch.

 

[Hamlett]

Imagine if WAR could wear the Homam Corazza (Triple Attack +2.5%). That + Warrior's Cuisses + Fighter's Calligae + Brutal Earring = OMGWTFBBQ. You'd never stop swinging.

there's haste gear for legs & feet that far outweigh a small DA boost. he'd swing faster with unicorn boots and byakko's haidate.

 

[Ugotjacked]

Max sword skill of 271 is still better than A- which imo will be plenty of acc for a Sushi Warrior. Well actually I know it is. How many Warriors with ridill parse at near cap Acc on exp mobs? How many Ridill Wars use it on Cerberus, Kirin, whoever the hell you guys TP burn now? How does it do? Only person with Ridill I can think of that posts on this website is Jamal. Maybe he can give us some input.

I dont think Acc would be the issue,but with offhand axe that adds another hit to rampage right? So chances for more Hits might be nice for bigger Rampages.

And I do believe all ridill warriors do Max Sword merits and 4 Axe Merits.

 

[CmdrFly]

What about the 23atk difference? There's no war-equippable piece in the game that will provide that.

I still don't believe the rumour (fact?) that offhanding a sword - or any non-axe weapon - removes a hit from Rampage. I get the same TP return if I offhand sword as I do if I offhand axe, provided their delay is similar (i.e. bastard swords vs tomahawks, I think their delay is almost exactly the same). With meater/company I get full TP for each hand + 4tp for the following hits. Someone (Mai?) suggested it possibly was 2x hits from mainhand + 4 following, which is plausible. Still gives you the same number of strikes though.

I can't answer your Ridill questions, I won't bother trying. The most experience I have with one is a single party where I parsed with a Ridill war, and my parser was broken during that session anyways (wouldn't record WS's at all).

 

[Lavi]

What about the 23atk difference? There's no war-equippable piece in the game that will provide that.

I still don't believe the rumour (fact?) that offhanding a sword - or any non-axe weapon - removes a hit from Rampage. I get the same TP return if I offhand sword as I do if I offhand axe, provided their delay is similar (i.e. bastard swords vs tomahawks, I think their delay is almost exactly the same). With meater/company I get full TP for each hand + 4tp for the following hits. Someone (Mai?) suggested it possibly was 2x hits from mainhand + 4 following, which is plausible. Still gives you the same number of strikes though.

I can't answer your Ridill questions, I won't bother trying. The most experience I have with one is a single party where I parsed with a Ridill war, and my parser was broken during that session anyways (wouldn't record WS's at all).

I think someone mentioned in another post that multihit weapons will not double attack during weapon skill. So if you equip two axes, each hand can double attack versus equipping axe/ridill, only one can. It's not so much you'll lose any consistant damage as much as unable to gain large damage rampages. That's if multihit weapons will not proc a double attack during WS which I cannot confirm nor deny.

Also 23 attack is meaningless if you are offhanding a sword. The only reason you should off hand a sword is for the multihits which only 3 swords (only 2 are WAR equippable) offer. Using any other sword is a complete waste. At end levels, any sword is overshadowed by the axe options stat wise. The hidden effect of +5 acc/+16 att on the maneater, the +4STR on the woodville or the +3STR/+30att from a Juggernaut (if you can afford it), outwieghs any possible stat boost from any sword available to date besides Joyeuse and Ridill. Prior to that point, anyone equipping a sword is basically equipping an offhanded axe with -att and -acc so they can gain more attack, acc and/or strength. At very low level (~30), it's a decent idea because the difference in skill is minimal and the boosts on the weapons compensates for the lack of skill, but beyond level 30 or so, you're gimping yourself. I'm not suggesting 23 attack is worthless, it's certainly a lot to lose, but if you're using a sword as WAR, then it should be either Ridill or Joyeuse in which case you shouldn't care about attack at all (to a certain extent anyways).

 

[CmdrFly]

I think someone mentioned in another post that multihit weapons will not double attack during weapon skill. So if you equip two axes, each hand can double attack versus equipping axe/ridill, only one can.

Was this in that multihit weapon thread? Sounds like balogna to me but I'm very curious to see some theories/proof behind this.

The only reason you should off hand a sword is for the multihits which only 3 swords (only 2 are WAR equippable) offer.

...or if it has higher base dmg than the relic axe. I've been pretty interested in parsing company vs. woody but I havent purchased the latter yet. 6 base dmg > 4 str, but the skill diff will be the main determinating factor there I think.

Also, hidden latent on meater/dolch is +18atk I believe, not +16.

What's the 3rd 1h multi-hit sword by the way? I only know of 2.

 

[Sneakypants]

Also, hidden latent on meater/dolch is +18atk I believe, not +16.

Blau is 16. I think Maneater is 18. Lucky axe wielders. ^^
2 ATTACK! /jizzm

 

[LadyKiKi]

Blau is 16. I think Maneater is 18. Lucky axe wielders. ^^
2 ATTACK! /jizzm

Stone Splitter is +24!!! Hah!




*KiKi hides away in the corner and sulks ....

 

[Lavi]

Was this in that multihit weapon thread? Sounds like balogna to me but I'm very curious to see some theories/proof behind this.

From my experience, yes, the multiple hits will add up to or exceed a single hit of a higher damage weapon. While the multi-hit will not process on a weapon skill, if you're doing the weapon skill at 100% the damage is comparable to a higher damage weapon.

Baja was setting up a Soboro run and I has asked a few questions about the weapon itself as I was slightly interested. One of the questions was about damage since it has a much lower base damage than any great katana that level and higher. The other was about whether the multihit procs on WS. The above was his answer which I took to mean multihit doesn't proc; therefore double and triple don't either. I could have misunderstood though.

...or if it has higher base dmg than the relic axe. I've been pretty interested in parsing company vs. woody but I havent purchased the latter yet. 6 base dmg > 4 str, but the skill diff will be the main determinating factor there I think.

Also, hidden latent on meater/dolch is +18atk I believe, not +16.

What's the 3rd 1h multi-hit sword by the way? I only know of 2.

Like you said, 6 Base damage at the loss of 4 STR, but you are also neglecting a loss of 23 skill as well. That's 23 acc (or .9*23) and 23 attack. That's a lot to lose and it's very questionable as to whether it produces more damage over time versus the standard axe.

The third is the Justice Sword from Jailer of Justice. It's RDM, PLD and THF only and also piece of junk. With the exception of THF which is extremely questionable why a THF is using a sword anyways, all the remaining jobs can use Joyeue which has higher base damage and lower delay for the same effect plus it doesn't eat up any ranged slot. I don't even think anyone should consider wasting an inventory space on it.

So Blau has +16 and Maneater is +18? That always confused me since I assumed they were exactly the same for both weapons and all the ENM weapons produced the same effect.

 

[Dowzer]

Blau has +15 and Maneater has +18. Both have an arguable +5 acc.

Edit: Nasya claimed Blau doesn't include the hidden effects during WS, could this be the same with the Maneater?

 

[Sneakypants]

16*


/jizzm

 

[CmdrFly]

Baja was setting up a Soboro run and I has asked a few questions about the weapon itself as I was slightly interested. One of the questions was about damage since it has a much lower base damage than any great katana that level and higher. The other was about whether the multihit procs on WS. The above was his answer which I took to mean multihit doesn't proc; therefore double and triple don't either. I could have misunderstood though.

He meant the weapon's inherent multi-hit trait. If you are thf, war or /war, you still have a chance for your job's Double or Triple Attack to proc. When I used to have my Mercurial Sword, it would occassionally proc DA during WS - I would imagine the same rules apply to the 1h weapons as the 2h ones.

Like you said, 6 Base damage at the loss of 4 STR, but you are also neglecting a loss of 23 skill as well.

Get your glasses cleaned gramma. Grampa?

...or if it has higher base dmg than the relic axe. I've been pretty interested in parsing company vs. woody but I havent purchased the latter yet. 6 base dmg > 4 str, but the skill diff will be the main determinating factor there I think.

19 skill by default. 14 with Suppanomimi. That's my justification for offhanding Company, when in reality I just can't afford a woody. /opendoorsforpenisjokes

I forgot about the sea toys, thanks. I'm 99.9% sure Meater is 18atk, I can re-confirm tonight.

 

[Mai Ikari]

Blau has +15 and Maneater has +18. Both have an arguable +5 acc.

Edit: Nasya claimed Blau doesn't include the hidden effects during WS, could this be the same with the Maneater?

The whole reason Blau and the like are so good is because the hidden effects, as well as the latent effects, are active during WS. If you're really laggy, you'll see that first TP is consumed, then the WS is performed with 0% TP, then returns whatever TP.

To clarify on Lavi, there's a difference between "Attacks 2-3 times" and [Double Attack]. Multihit weapons cannot proc during WS, multihit traits can. But on an interesting note from Baja's SAM/DRG experiments, multihit weapons can proc during a jump. Also, the effect on ENM latent weapons is +15-18 attack depending on the weapon. The +5 ACC is assumed to be on all weapons, from tests on a few, so that may vary as well.

Just to toss in my 2 gil on this discussion...

Our hypothetical Joyaxe would bring an Axe/Joyaxe WAR up near the level of Axe/Ridill WAR... But people with Ridill would do the new Joyaxe/Ridill combo for even -more- damage than they were previously capable of.

On meleeburn HNM fights, and to a lesser extent Mamook/Bhaflau, chances are an Axe/Joyaxe WAR would do -better- than an Axe/Ridill or maybe even Joyaxe/Ridill WAR, due to the massive 23 acc/att difference. On Caederva Mire fare, Joyaxe/Ridill would do better, due to the mob's low level.

Would such a weapon being available to WARs give other jobs a shot at Ridill?

Sadly, no. Ridill can be equipped by WAR / THF / DRK / BST / RNG / SAM. Their sword skills are:
WAR: B
THF: D
DRK: B-
BST: E
RNG: D
SAM: C+

THF, RNG, and BST sword skill sucks beyond repair. SAM only uses GKTs. DRK has B- in Sword and Axe, so an Axe/Ridill DRK is still rather lackluster, even if their huge mob-raping Souleater Rampage looks good in screenshots. WAR is the only job on the list that is really compatable with Ridill usage.

 

[CmdrFly]

Our hypothetical Joyaxe would bring an Axe/Joyaxe WAR up near the level of Axe/Ridill WAR... But people with Ridill would do the new Joyaxe/Ridill combo for even -more- damage than they were previously capable of.

I gotta continue fighting the current here. I still say that, if this axe existed, any war who had it should go dual axe for anything - HNM, exp, whatever they fight that cons above EP.


Stats }=========================

Joyaxe: 45 dmg, 236 delay, occasionally attacks twice
Ridill: 40 dmg, 236 delay, occasionally attacks 2-3 times


Skillz }========================

Setup 1: Max Axe
Axe skill - 292 (base 269, 8 merits 285, sea torque 292)
Sword skill - 263 (base 250, 4 merits 258, suppanomimi 263)

Setup 2: Max Sword
Axe skill - 277 (base 269, 4 merits 277)
Sword skill - 278 (base 250, 8 merits 266, suppanomimi 271, sea torque 278)

Setup 3: Median
Axe skill - 285 (base 269, 8 merits 285)
Sword skill - 270 (base 250, 4 merits 258, suppanomimi 263, sea torque 270)


Ups & downs }===================

Joyaxe/meater (or any other axe) - 3 hits max per round (excluding DA)
Pros: 292 skill in both hands, 4 merits available in combat skills
Cons: Waste of +5 sword skill from suppa

Joyaxe/Ridill - 5 hits max per round
Pros: multi-hit in both hands
Cons: cannot use one sea torque to mod both hands, occupies all combat merits (detrimental to other jobs)


My wang }=======================

I don't personally know any Ridill wars, keep this in mind. I've never had a heartfelt conversation with a Ridill war either.

Meater@49/Joyaxe@45: 292 skill in both hands, 4 hits max per round including DA. Benefit from the hidden stats of Meater.

Joyaxe@45/Ridill@40: which setup from above? Setup3, 285/270? Sacrificing 22 skill in the offhand for an occasional extra hit or 2. Is it worth it?