Illegal Immigrants, support or against?

[Shaidalyn]

I'm not reading all of the replies because Omni, an obvious retard, has infiltrated and most will end up back at him.
[rant]This is America. I am an American. My grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaat grand parents may have just came and settled down, but that's how every nation in all of existance started so shut that crap off now.
"No human is illegal" WTF? If you came here illegally... get the hell out.
I don't pay taxes so you and your fat lazy family can suck off the system, get your OWN country better, get the hell out of ours.
This is NOT 1600's... this is not 1700's.. 1800's.. it's not even 1900's.. this is 2006.. we have laws. If you do not respect those laws you shouldn't become involved and LEAVE.
We don't need more people here, we are comfortable. You want to come? Do it legally.. I don't give a damn about your dying mother, unborn child, or tyrannical leader. I don't care where you come from or why. Your problems are not mine.
I LOVE people who come here to make a TRUE LIVING. Who are a real citizen, who work and pay taxes, and do everything legally.
It's these shit bag immigrant pieces of garbage who think they can just bypass the whole process and drag our nation into the sewers like the shithole they came from. Nah, my parents, aunts, uncles, granparents and so forth did not go out and fight and die so you can bitch about your welfare or the fact our AMERICAN schools speak your fuckin language. You come to America, you do shit OUR way, no one gives a shit about how you did it in Mexico, or wherever. This is no other country, this is the US.
You wanna come here? Learn the laws, learn the language, work for a living, and follow how OUR country is run,
You came here to "escape" your shithole, don't think you can turn it into one too. You come here, you do it our way or no way.
Fuck this "racial sensitivity" shit, I go to work, I speak ENGLISH. You wanna come here? Fuckin learn it. I don't care about your holidays, celebrate them, you don't wanna celebrate ours? Ok! I'm all for you being your own person but don't think you can fuckin "That offends me!" you fuckin came here, you assimilate to OUR way of life.
You can keep your religion/culture/everything,... as long as it doesn't impede mine.
Illegal should be dragged out and tossed back into mexico like old cargo. This is the scum of the nation that makes the whole country sink.
This is America. Founded on a Christian belief with English speaking ancestors.
We don't shove it down your throat and say "Christian or death" we dont FORCE you to celebrate our holidays and we allow you to keep your own. (Yes we ALLOW.. it's a PRIVILEGE) That doesn't mean you and your muslim/athiest/buddhist/whatever friends can come out and demand we take down a Crucifix or Christmas Tree or Easter Bunny cause it "offends" you. You came here, you live here, you follow the way it is here. Don't like it? Get out. That goes for the left too.[/rant]

I feel better. Please pardon the language and the typos. ^^

 

[Rones]

but some of us (american) can be so picky


like:

I don't wanna do that job, is soo dirty ; ;

I don't wanna do this, i'll do it if you pay me $10/hr

and remember, illegal immgrants doesn't go on strike, we do XD

Do you have any idea how our economy works? Did you even read my two posts debunking that exact argument? Strikes are a result of overpowered unions, the race is irrelevent and a seperate problem from illegeal aliens.

 

[Elemmire]

Omniscientx, you are a fool. You only think someone isn't ignorant when they agree with you. I except people coming to this country to follow the laws. If they can't get citicizenship that's prolly their fault. People who get visas CAN get citicizenship still, you idiot. Jesus.. I swear.. oye

 

[Vandoura]

W...T...F... not only are they coming over here, taking jobs from americans, but we're being NICE! because we don't' wanna hurt the feelings of someone who's here illegaly and working, not paying taxes, leeching our public school system? fuck them

lol ok, lets say every "illegal immgrants" are booted out of the country, all 11-13mil of them, Lets see any "Legal" or "American" will do the job "Illegal Immgrant" do, if they always complaing taking job away from american, why not the americans trying to compeit with the "illegal immgrant" lol

Will we do car washing? will we do roofing construction? will we clean the sewer? will we construct house/building? will we do resturant cleaning, take out trash? will you spend 8 hours + carrying heavy boxes? like in china town where mexican have to stock the car with food product? will you farm like mexican do? or Will you do what mexican or other "Illegal immgrant" do? you love chinese food or mexican food don't you? almost all of them came and work illegally, there will be no more chinese/mexican food, what will you eat?, Pizza, hamburger, italian food forever?

 

[Direwolf]

My opinion is this. We need a cheap labor source. End of story. Who is going to mow my lawn? Pick my food? Who is going to wash the dishes at a resteraunt? Not being racist, it needs doing, and white people won't do the work. At least they won't for the prices that are currently being paid. If we had to pay Americans to do the same job, you will see prices jump up ALOT across the board. Making it a Felony will not deter illegal imigration. It will just further clog up the US legal system.

 

[Rones]

lol ok, lets say every "illegal immgrants" are booted out of the country, all 11-13mil of them, Lets see any "Legal" or "American" will do the job "Illegal Immgrant" do, if they always complaing taking job away from american, why not the americans trying to compeit with the "illegal immgrant" lol

Will we do car washing? will we do roofing construction? will we clean the sewer? will we construct house/building? will we do resturant cleaning, take out trash? will you spend 8 hours + carrying heavy boxes? like in china town where mexican have to stock the car with food product? will you farm like mexican do? or Will you do what mexican or other "Illegal immgrant" do? you love chinese food or mexican food don't you? almost all of them came and work illegally, there will be no more chinese/mexican food, what will you eat?, Pizza, hamburger, italian food forever?

I give up making new answers to this argument since you aren't reading:

Economy will fix that naturally as it always does. When a job is under paid, labor goes elsewhere until the wage increases to make the job deseriable again. This is basic economics and not justification for illegeals.

Again, I see the 'we need them for dirty jobs' line. No, we don't. Economy would adjust and life would go on. Possible sequence: Price of those services go up due to labor shortage, those jobs become more deseriable due to higher wages, labor market balances out. End result? We are exactly where we were before, except minus illigeals. Just what do you think would happen without that influx of illegeals to do the work? World explode?

No, we don't need the labor source. Economy would adjust. Same way it adjusts when we had major wars in the past that took millions out of the work force. Prices of those basic services would go up due to a labor shortage, labor market would redistribute people in response to the price shift, economy would balance. Where is everyone getting this silly argument "Whites won't do the work"? All races have done that work for ages, now is no different. It is a matter of opportunity cost. Why do roof work when you can earn double at an office job. It's not a race issue, its a logic issue. However, if the price goes up for those lower education required jobs, people will migrate and fill the need. Economy will go on.

 

[Vandoura]

but if the employeer willing to increase the wages?

 

[Rones]

but if the employeer willing to increase the wages?

Yes. That is a fundamental of a capitlist economy. There would be a supply shortage of labor, thus the employers would raise wages to get the workers and the customers must accept the price increase or not use the service as much. End result is less people will use the service, blue collar workers will get paid more, rich users of the service will pay more. Price differential between upper and lower class shrinks a little.

 

[Vandoura]

Yes. That is a fundamental of a capitlist economy. There would be a supply shortage of labor, thus the employers would raise wages to get the workers and the customers must accept the price increase or not use the service as much. End result is less people will use the service, blue collar workers will get paid more, rich users of the service will pay more. Price differential between upper and lower class shrinks a little.

can't wait til see a car wash service at $15+ XD

 

[Ithenas]

lol ok, lets say every "illegal immgrants" are booted out of the country, all 11-13mil of them, Lets see any "Legal" or "American" will do the job "Illegal Immgrant" do, if they always complaing taking job away from american, why not the americans trying to compeit with the "illegal immgrant" lol

Will we do car washing? will we do roofing construction? will we clean the sewer? will we construct house/building? will we do resturant cleaning, take out trash? will you spend 8 hours + carrying heavy boxes? like in china town where mexican have to stock the car with food product? will you farm like mexican do? or Will you do what mexican or other "Illegal immgrant" do? you love chinese food or mexican food don't you? almost all of them came and work illegally, there will be no more chinese/mexican food, what will you eat?, Pizza, hamburger, italian food forever?

for the record...roof construction and building houses is my job this summer...i'm working for a contractor. and for the past 2 summers i did spend 8+ hours carrying heavy boxes, i worked in the warehouse of an office supply company. I also unloaded tractor trailors during june in the tennessee heat and humidity, the office supply company i worked at won the bids for furnishing alot of newly built schools in the east tennessee area...guess what? i was the pack mule. and my best friends father worked for KUB until he they forced him to start drawing disability and stop working. Guess what? we are both LEGAL CITIZENS!!! *gasp* so there goes that part of your arguement.

do you know the unemployment figures in america? i'm pretty sure they are over the 11-13 million you say are illegal immigrants working in our country. here's an idea...GET OFF YOUR LAZY ASSES AND WORK FOR A LIVING LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. yea, i know, some people are on unemployment and welfare for legit reasons, i can respect them, but the vast majorty aren't, they're just lazy and arrogant thinking certain jobs are below them. Work or Starve, that's my rule.

*edit* forgot to mention i mowed yards all around my hometown with my grand father from about age 10 to age 17, and yea, he's a legal citizen too

 

[Rones]

can't wait til see a car wash service at $15+ XD

Well everyone complains about minimum wage being too low...well this would raise the pay for those low wage jobs naturally instead of being forced by the government. Would also probably create a larger market for automatic car wash machines in your example. Removing the illegeals would help all those low wage workers who are legal citizens. Last I checked, laws were in place to benefit legal citizens, not illegeal.

do you know the unemployment figures in america?

Latest figure is 4.7% percent I think. 4-5% is full employment under macro economics (explained this in a couple other threads). So to be fair, that's not really an arguent against the illegeals. Unemployment is pretty well right now. If it were below 4%, it would be a sign of an over heating economy, which is actually a bad thing.

 

[Direwolf]

Unemployment is not an issue here. It is at 4.5ish I thought I saw it hit. That is INCREDIBLY low. As low as a healthy economy goes.

A REAL issue with the illegal immigrants is they take alot of money out of the US economy. They come, they work, they hoard the money they make by living in squalid conditions and send as much back to mexico as they can. I agree with Rones the economy can take it, just don't particularily want to spend more money on having my lawn mowed. Why they can't you know, make their economy more productive is beyond me.

 

[Trippyhippy]

No, we don't need the labor source. Economy would adjust. Same way it adjusts when we had major wars in the past that took millions out of the work force. Prices of those basic services would go up due to a labor shortage, labor market would redistribute people in response to the price shift, economy would balance. Where is everyone getting this silly argument "Whites won't do the work"? All races have done that work for ages, now is no different. It is a matter of opportunity cost. Why do roof work when you can earn double at an office job. It's not a race issue, its a logic issue. However, if the price goes up for those lower education required jobs, people will migrate and fill the need. Economy will go on.

If the labor were more expensive, the jobs would go offshore.

The illegals help to keep the money in our system if you ask me. Otherwise the rich corperation would be paying people in mexico/china/wherever to do the labor.

According to rones, that's why the rich need to pay less taxes. So they can put more money into the economy. If they can't find money to spend on cheap labor here, they can find it elsewhere. It won't make wages for bluecollar workers change either way. That guy that hands you your food at McDonalds™ is gonna make the minimum amount of money they can legally pay him no matter what.

Illeagals for the most part work throw away jobs. The ones you get when you are inbetween jobs and haven't found a good one yet. Like Dishwashing, picking Fruit, Landscaping. Those aren't careers. If it is your career, you are probably in management.

Untrained cheap labor keeps prices down and makes the US a more desirable place to produce goods.

I don't like it, but that's how it is.

 

[Kimberely]

I didn't read everyone's post and someone could have mentioned this already but...

Everyone in america is an immigrant anyways. The Native Americans came over during the last ice age... Then the Europeans came over on boats looking for India....So aren't we all here illegal in some way. lol

Seriously though.. there should be some form of "punishment" for being here illegally. I wouldn't expect to be able to just leave the US and go to another country and just live there without doing my part to support their government and stay out of trouble.

 

[Bret]

Expecting people who come to America to obey American laws makes me ignorant how? You love to toss around personal insults...yet you fail horribly at supporting your view and providing a solid argument. Just calling us stupid Americans isn't an automatic win in a discussion. Come up with some valid arguments instead of spamming insults Omni. Quickest way to admit defeat in a discussion is to personally insult your oppenent.

Maybe it is hard to get in for a reason? Did you ever stop to consider maybe America doesn't want completly open borders for everyone to enter as they pleased? American government is there to work for American citizens...that does not include foreigners who want in. The US government works for us, not the foreigners.

If we went with 100% open borders we would get flooded with the poor. Social service would bankrupt the government trying to pay for all these new people on a form of welfare or social aid. Then our country would become as big of rat hole as they just ran away from.

Again, I see the 'we need them for dirty jobs' line. No, we don't. Economy would adjust and life would go on. Possible sequence: Price of those services go up due to labor shortage, those jobs become more deseriable due to higher wages, labor market balances out. End result? We are exactly where we were before, except minus illigeals. Just what do you think would happen without that influx of illegeals to do the work? World explode? :wacko:

Whole concept is rediculous. If anything you should be supporting more legalized immigrants, not encouraging legalized "illegeal immigration". :banghead3: Visas does not equal citizenship. They knew that they couldn't stay when they got it, there is no reason to be upset about being expected to leave. They knew it before they came. If that concept is too difficult, maybe we should just remove the temptation and not allow long term visas. :roll:

I agree with rones on this people that come to america illegaly in my opinion should be treated with no respect whatsoever there is a right way to do things and there is a wrong way to do things.

 

[Brin]

This is America, this is the home of americans. We have rules for a reason. the thing about illegal immigrants is that...hmmm.....ITS ILLEGAL. Meaning...agaisnt the law.....meaning that if you break the rule's of my country, you should get f'd up (so to speak).

Thats like waiting in traffic to get on the freeway and some jack ass rides all the way up on the other lane and then at the last minute, tries to cut over to get ahead of everyone else. Well, I sure as hell never let ppl cut in front of me. You want the easy route? Well then boo f'ing hoo, go wait in the line like everybody else.

So many ppl say "Well, then nobody will do the labor for the price that these ppl are willing to do it for". To that I say, take a peek out of that f'ing box called your life that you've bunkered yourself in. Look around at the country for once in your life. You think that illegial immigrants make up the brunt of the cheap workforce in america? Are you serious? I know cities where there might be like......2% illegial immigrants living there. Do you think the car washes, resteruants, etc, there are more expensive cause its americans doing the work? Uhhhh.....NO. There are still legal citizans here who suck at making money and will do whatever they can to earn a buck. There will ALWAYS.....let me say that again....AAAALLLLWWWAAAAYYYSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS be somebody to do the job of an illegal immigrant, usually for the same price. I say this all with not only full confidence, but with the experiance of living in areas where there are many illegal immigrants and places where there are next to none.

If it was up to me, I would make Illegal Immigrant Bounty Hunters to track down those pieces of crap that dont have the respect to come into my country illegally and in most cases, not even trying to conform (ex. Not bothering to learn any english). You are a drain on sociaty and should be dealt with accordingly.

But of course, a discussion such as this one will always have ppl on both sides of the fence. Hopefully, the ppl that are on the ignorant side dont get their way in this country. Would really be a sad day then.

Now, this all my opinion. I'm not trying to call anybody out by no means. As we all know, this isnt the flameboard, so my purpose isnt to flame. All i'm doing is letting ppl know where I stand and how I feel about it. If you dont like my opinion, then you dont have to read this post. This is just one of those things I feel really strongly about and would feel like I was "copping out" if I didnt post.

 

[meeze]

I wish the Ingins had immigration laws and sent all you fucking peckerwoods packing back to whatever country you were fleeing from.

 

[Sculli]

I came to the Staates as an immigrant, I went through all the hoops for 13 months, and after that I received my Green Card. Yes, I do know that people from less "desirable" countries have to wait forever to get their work authorization or permanent residence permit.

However, illegal is illegal, no two ways about it. Giving an amnesty to those who came here illegally will imho sent the wrong message to all the other poor places in the world: "It's ok to come to America illegally, you will get citizenship no matter what!"

Screw that.

I could maybe agree to that those who have been here for a decade, hold steady jobs, will have to pay a fine, will have to pay back income tax for the past 10 years, will have their employer fined, and then will have a chance to apply for citizenship years down the road.

The rest really needs to go, and America needs to stop relying on illegal labor.

 

[Dejavu]

I came to the Staates as an immigrant, I went through all the hoops for 13 months, and after that I received my Green Card. Yes, I do know that people from less "desirable" countries have to wait forever to get their work authorization or permanent residence permit.

However, illegal is illegal, no two ways about it. Giving an amnesty to those who came here illegally will imho sent the wrong message to all the other poor places in the world: "It's ok to come to America illegally, you will get citizenship no matter what!"

Screw that.

I could maybe agree to that those who have been here for a decade, hold steady jobs, will have to pay a fine, will have to pay back income tax for the past 10 years, will have their employer fined, and then will have a chance to apply for citizenship years down the road.

The rest really needs to go, and America needs to stop relying on illegal labor.

See Sculli is the kind of immigrant we want the rest... not so much

 

[Excim]

I wish the Ingins had immigration laws and sent all you fucking peckerwoods packing back to whatever country you were fleeing from.

Oh goddammit... *Heads back to Canada*


To set the record straight... Our government is based on the citizens contribution to make it work. Taxes help keep us healthy when we are sick and cannot afford to cure ourselves, keep us clothed when we cannot afford our own clothes, and keep us fed when we cannot afford to feed ourselves. Taxes help keep our roads maintained, our prisons locked tight, and our policemen on the job. That is how our government works. Now, for the most part, (like 90%+) the whole reason these cats that are crossing over to work here are staying illegal, is because they don't want to live in the US. They are exploiting our way of life to better themselves only. Once they make thier quick cash, if they haven't been booted across already they head back to Mexico and live it up for a few years. Once thier cash is depleted, they come back, and do it all over again.

Sure, there are some families that literally have nothing to thier name, and come across illegally because they cannot wait for the legal process of immigration to begin. But to be honest, those are only a small faction of the hordes of people coming over each year.

And lets not forget, what happens to this poor illegal who gets sick while he's here? Damn straight, goes to the hospital and gets better, and sends you and I the bill with his middle finger pointing to heaven. What happens to him? Well, he gets better, and gets a nice trip back to a border town, and crosses back over within a month. This is not speculation, oh no. This is reality, as told right from the mouthes of the illegals themselves!

As it stands, our immigration policy is a joke. And not because "OMG WE GOTTA KEEP THE FOREIGNERS OUT!!!" No. If someone moves to this country, then they gotta contribute just like the rest of us. That's all. Illegals don't contribute. Period. Take your Minimum Wage arguements and stuff it.

Supply and demand dictates priceing, kids. If flipping burgers and frying hot dogs could pay my mortgage and keep me at my current lifestyle, you think I's have any hangs ups doing it? Hell naw. If the majority of AMERICANS had to "buck up" and take all the jobs that these illigals "so graciously" take up for us, is American life going to become so ragged that people won't be able to afford anything? Nope. The prices on those shoes that NIKE has to sell 1.5 million units of, they'll drop. So will the price of car tires, and milk and eggs, and treadmills.

Will America become the outsourcing capital of the world? I doubt it. America is America's best customer as it stands today. So American business will adapt to any new average standard of living. Prices will drop so that things will sell, and the world will keep on spinning. And in the right light, everyone will have earned thier pay equally, without having some cheap ass ride along and not pay the fucking tab. So yeah, cut the bullshit low wages arguement. It's empty.