Is dancer going to be like a brd?

[Bajaratt]

No job is bad if people put the time and effort into it, only narrow-minded thinking makes any job seem bad really.

While they might not be bad, they're not necessarily good either; there's usually other jobs available that offer more benefits with fewer drawbacks that make that job look like crap. So they're a zero on a relative scale, just not an absolute one.

 

[Dowzer]

Fuck Battle Mage, when did I ever say that? Don't ever relate me to such ignorance that could only come from Hellstorm. The ratio of damage dealt : monster's TP gain compared to other melee is common sense.

It should be commonly known about what I posted too.

The only reason RDM should "melee" is when the mob's TP moves are fatal. I'm quite certain I shouldn't need to explain this.

Everyone should understand that RDM can manage to deal finite damage (depending on their skill of absorbing physical damage) without giving the mob any TP.

 

[hellstorm]

No, you wouldn't. Skill would have nothing to do with it. You'd have less attack with a bard then I would without. Your max STR would be 30-40 points lower than mine. You cannot use a majority of the gear fundamental to making a DD character. All you can equip is Dusk gear, which hasting a 10 point attack just makes the next useless attack come slightly quicker.

Actually i'd use most the nashira gear or the palwan gear get less haste but more magic skills and acc that way, plus with justice and/or joyeuse I dont think gaining tp be the problem. Problem come when wsing a rdm has to work alot harder to get a good melee set then a warrior or other melee do because there not many light class armor that support melee which im sure drg has the same problem.

 

[Clocian]

Actually i'd use most the nashira gear or the palwan gear get less haste but more magic skills and acc that way, plus with justice and/or joyeuse I dont think gaining tp be the problem. Problem come when wsing a rdm has to work alot harder to get a good melee set then a warrior or other melee do because there not many light class armor that support melee which im sure drg has the same problem.

Ok, you're using justice, and joy toy. Are you hitting the mob? How hard are you hitting?

 

[Dowzer]

RDM meleeing to do physical damage should be very careful. Not only do they risk their party by loading the mob with TP, they may even call for help on it too.

 

[jamal]

Actually i'd use most the nashira gear or the palwan gear get less haste but more magic skills and acc that way, plus with justice and/or joyeuse I dont think gaining tp be the problem. Problem come when wsing a rdm has to work alot harder to get a good melee set then a warrior or other melee do because there not many light class armor that support melee which im sure drg has the same problem.

Which is why I said your attack would be incredibly weak, and thus make you not a viable DD. Using joyeuse or justice sword is feeding needless tp to the mob even faster than a normal sword. Getting tp to 100 quickly doesn't make a good DD. Getting tp to 100 quickly while inflicting serious damage on the way does. Even if you happen to crack out 500 dmg vorpals occasionally, you will still place right alongside PUP in a DD scenario, and you don't have a puppet to boost you up slightly.

 

[Clocian]

Which is why I said your attack would be incredibly weak, and thus make you not a viable DD. Using joyeuse or justice sword is feeding needless tp to the mob even faster than a normal sword. Getting tp to 100 quickly doesn't make a good DD. Getting tp to 100 quickly while inflicting serious damage on the way does. Even if you happen to crack out 500 dmg vorpals occasionally, you will still place right alongside PUP in a DD scenario, and you don't have a puppet to boost you up slightly.

pwned

 

[hellstorm]

Ok, you're using justice, and joy toy. Are you hitting the mob? How hard are you hitting?

as I said before I don't melee in merit on fact hardly even merit with rdm at all anymore. Also as I already said that as we are now with only a 250 skill and very limited on gear it would be hard to have a str/acc/magic set. Hench the point where I said rdm need higher skill level and vorpal blade. Point I was making i'd be mad if they gave some other hybrid job over 250 skill (other then blu). Which I dont see happening anyway because look what they gave COR and PUP for skill lvls.

 

[hellstorm]

Which is why I said your attack would be incredibly weak, and thus make you not a viable DD. Using joyeuse or justice sword is feeding needless tp to the mob even faster than a normal sword. Getting tp to 100 quickly doesn't make a good DD. Getting tp to 100 quickly while inflicting serious damage on the way does. Even if you happen to crack out 500 dmg vorpals occasionally, you will still place right alongside PUP in a DD scenario, and you don't have a puppet to boost you up slightly.

and I never denied that. Does that mean that we can't melee because there not the best dd? Rdm power is not in there power to do great dmg there power is to do a little bit of everything. If a rdm had some the salvage gear along with selective other gear around a rdm could pull off dd/refresh and back up healer with enfeb and do decent at all. Rdm is Jack of all trades master of none

however now rdm are seen as main heal and refresh we don't even get to enfeb anymore.

 

[Dowzer]

Rdm is Jack of all trades master of none

Seriously.

 

[Redx]

Rdm is Jack of all trades master of none

enfeebling magic.

 

[Bajaratt]

however now rdm are seen as main heal and refresh we don't even get to enfeb anymore.

Obviously you don't do endgame or whoever you run with is retarded.

 

[Xalioniaf]

Put the sword away before you hurt yourself and get back to refreshing all us other mages please.

Only when you start teleporting us whenever we want D<
(late, I know, blame school).

In past iterations of Final Fantasy, Red Mage has always been the "jack of all trades, master of none". However, I'm pretty sure the devs looked at this and decided such a job probably wouldn't fly well. So they gave them enfeebling magic as a strength.
For the most part though, it's the player base who have placed Red Mage in the corner that it's in. If a Red Mage doesn't like doing what he's doing and, god forbid, actually want to melee in a party, you shouldn't slip into that melee gear in the middle of the party and jump in the front lines. At the very least, make your own party and see how long it takes you to get a good party together without people leaving.
I personally will grumble occasionally when I'm set to main heal and not enfeeble or something, but I know my place isn't to melee in a party.

(The above probably wasn't typed out coherently, but I don't give a damn. I've got an essay to write!)

 

[Neisan]

The one saving grace of en- spells I believe is it doesn't feed TP... so you can theoretically deal TP less damage with a low delay low damage dagger and enough ACC+ and maybe even ATK- if you could... but it's still a piddly amount compared to anyone else.

Maybe in a solo/duo/trio/anything short of full pt, and still very situational, as in somehow you're overloaded on support (although why you have a party like this is beyond me)...

 

[Skaw]

I dunno about you guys, but Red Mage has never been "Good" at doing melee damage in any Final Fantasy. Even in 1, unless you gave them Excalibur, they fall way behind. Even with Excalibur, they aren't going to compare to the Black Belt. Not even a blip on the radar there.

The job has, and always will be, simply a meeting point between White and Black magic, with restrictions on both sides of the fence so that they aren't more powerful than the two specialist jobs they take their magic from.

The only reason why meleeing was an option for the job in previous incarnations, is because in all the other games, meleeing doesn't force a mobs abilities.

FFXI's design meets the original design pretty well. All RDM teams in FF1 worked not because of their melee damage, but the ability to use both white and black spells. Seriously, battle times are much, much, MUCH longer doing Red Mage x4 in FF1 than say, Fighter x4. Or even standard party set ups. They just aren't reliant on items as much, since they can use Cure spells and sleep.

That one Red Wizard you gave Excalibur to will do leaps and bounds better than the other three. Ofcourse, if you have a group of RDMs in 11 and have one with Excalibur, he's going to do leaps and bounds better as well because of that wicked additional effect.

 

[Solan]

Problem come when wsing a rdm has to work alot harder to get a good melee set then a warrior or other melee do because there not many light class armor that support melee which im sure drg has the same problem.

Not really considering this is now easily accessible to DRG considering it's only like 800k.

and I never denied that. Does that mean that we can't melee because there not the best dd? Rdm power is not in there power to do great dmg there power is to do a little bit of everything. If a rdm had some the salvage gear along with selective other gear around a rdm could pull off dd/refresh and back up healer with enfeb and do decent at all. Rdm is Jack of all trades master of none

however now rdm are seen as main heal and refresh we don't even get to enfeb anymore.

That's just for merits stupid. Last time I checked Dispel, Dia, Bio, are all enfeebs and are needed for HNM, Dynamis, and other endgame activities.

 

[Kagemusha]

/rerail

Anyone know what DNC would sub? I'm guessing DRG 20-29, WAR 30-59 since it's the best DD sub for now, then /SAM 60-75 because of meditate? DNC seems all about the TP after all.

 

[Solan]

/rerail

Anyone know what DNC would sub? I'm guessing DRG 20-29, WAR 30-59 since it's the best DD sub for now, then /SAM 60-75 because of meditate? DNC seems all about the TP after all.

I dunno if WAR would do much help with DRG you get the attack/accuracy bonus and Jumps. SAM would be a good sub considering meditate. Although it doesn't seem like the kinda job that would have such 'heavy' subs.

 

[Uzor]

I'm sure Dancer will get auto Regain. Besides, SE stated they will get TP restoring moves.

 

[Xalioniaf]

I'm sure Dancer will get auto Regain. Besides, SE stated they will get TP restoring moves.

Think they'll get it <37? :spiteful: