its official, rng was nerfed.

Grieve you hit it on the head awesome post

Like ive said numerous times, sure ranger might need a nerf for end game, but SE went way overboard

Now we cant solo
Are gonna be pushed aside for end game events
get outdamaged by all melee in XP party.. and pay 16-18k a stack of arrows to do so :/

Plus...most of the people here... their whole argument is about XP
They just dismiss the fact that we can no longer solo
They also just ignore the fact that in sky we have been gimped extremeley in the only thing we do (deal damage)

They always focus on the XP, telling us "The good rangers will adjust" and all this bullshit

Maybe Monk needs a nerf? ive seen MNK parties in KRT getting chain 100+.. never seen a ranger party do that
 
Skaw said:
I said I wasn't against the individual Ranger, Grieve, just stacking Rangers to trivialize an encounter. Yes, it's harsh. Square went overboard, but something was needed without a doubt. No one should be sitting on the sidelines because they aren't a Ranger, nor should they have to level Ranger to be of use against things. Like I said to Strid, 15 jobs, all should be equally strong against the same end game encounter.

And the thing about Chi Blast, is the numbers aren't solid, it does have a damage range. As well, it's very time-sensitive. I've gone many times missing out on a potentially great Chi Blast because someone didn't drop from the alliance quick enough.

Square will review this, and make appropraite changes when they realize that things were too strict.
Click to expand...

You wont have to worry about that anymore... most end game shells will be stacking on BLM and MNK(to replace rng)

So now that all the jobs are sitting out for MNK and BLM, time for a nerf for them amirite?

Plus, all the rangers here have said they wouldnt mind a nerf... hell ive said it a million times

BUt like you said, they just went overboard

But please baby please stop with the "it was deserved" bullshit

Because now MNk and BLM deserve one
 
Eladamiri said:
Maybe Monk needs a nerf? ive seen MNK parties in KRT getting chain 100+.. never seen a ranger party do that
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's possible. A) You need a Bard for Lullaby. B) You need to Roam. C) You need every single mob to your PT. D) 4 Monks. E) A White Mage willing to chance it.

The chances of all 5 of those happening are slim. And sorry if I really don't see the appeal of chaining mostly T monsters. I hate Ranperre's.

Eladamiri said:
You wont have to worry about that anymore... most end game shells will be stacking on BLM and MNK(to replace rng)

So now that all the jobs are sitting out for MNK and BLM, time for a nerf for them amirite?

Plus, all the rangers here have said they wouldnt mind a nerf... hell ive said it a million times

BUt like you said, they just went overboard

But please baby please stop with the "it was deserved" bullshit

Because now MNk and BLM deserve one
Click to expand...

You know what? I'm tired of the "Whhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa It happened to me, so it needs to happen to others!" Attitude. You're being no better than the 12 year olds that play World of Warcraft.

No where did I say this nerf of epic proportions was required. I said something was needed, and I'm freaking agreeing with you guys that what happened was rather unnecessary. Why can't you think that SE will fix the situation for the better of your job, and do something so the 10 other jobs that just sit out during the end game encounters to match the usefulness of rng/mnk/blm?

Oh wait, I tried to say Kiting shouldn't be necessary, but got told it was the same ol' "Beat 'er down" tactic by Strid, but he'd rather have things be the same "Nuke/Shoot 'er down" tactic that makes over half the jobs in the game useless in those encounters.
 
Ok, thank you for replying skaw. You Do understand the extent of the nerf, and its effect not just on the rng in HNM/XP, but also how it effects what a ranger can do for real fun (as opposed to [time for work!] in sky).
That is what Syn, and i as well, have been trying to get across in this thread, and sadly it doesnt seem to be understood. It doesnt matter to most because They can still go guillotine or hexa strike or thundaga III whatever they want whenever they want, and to be honest that makes me sad. "Didnt happen to me, quit cryin".

I also agree with you that se will take steps to correct this imbalance, as i cannot allow myself to believe that they truly meant to leave rng incapable of doing so many basic things while solo, especially with all the attention they have paid in the past to ballista, and the emphasis in this update on Improving Soloability for all. It seems like they just didnt think about what other repercussions this would have Outside PT dynamic, and to make this point for the LAST time, THAT is what rngs are upset about. Because their performance in PT of any kind is still (25% accy penalty aside >.<) manageable and most would be willing to adapt, if it werent for the fact that 90% of their "fun" outside the PT environment has just been denied to them.
 
Skaw said:
Eladamiri said:
Maybe Monk needs a nerf? ive seen MNK parties in KRT getting chain 100+.. never seen a ranger party do that
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's possible. A) You need a Bard for Lullaby. B) You need to Roam. C) You need every single mob to your PT. D) 4 Monks. E) A White Mage willing to chance it.

The chances of all 5 of those happening are slim. And sorry if I really don't see the appeal of chaining mostly T monsters. I hate Ranperre's.

Eladamiri said:
You wont have to worry about that anymore... most end game shells will be stacking on BLM and MNK(to replace rng)

So now that all the jobs are sitting out for MNK and BLM, time for a nerf for them amirite?

Plus, all the rangers here have said they wouldnt mind a nerf... hell ive said it a million times

BUt like you said, they just went overboard

But please baby please stop with the "it was deserved" bullshit

Because now MNk and BLM deserve one
Click to expand...

You know what? I'm tired of the "Whhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa It happened to me, so it needs to happen to others!" Attitude. You're being no better than the 12 year olds that play World of Warcraft.

No where did I say this nerf of epic proportions was required. I said something was needed, and I'm freaking agreeing with you guys that what happened was rather unnecessary. Why can't you think that SE will fix the situation for the better of your job, and do something so the 10 other jobs that just sit out during the end game encounters to match the usefulness of rng/mnk/blm?

Oh wait, I tried to say Kiting shouldn't be necessary, but got told it was the same ol' "Beat 'er down" tactic by Strid.
Click to expand...

I know.. if you read my post I siad But like you said, they went overboard"

Regarding MNK cannons..... your reply is shit

1.) RNG cannons need a BRD as well
2.) rng cannons need to roam as well
3.) rng need every mob to themselves (more people XP in Shrine then KRT, so dont give me that shit)

The chance of that happening for a ranger cannon is slim as well.. and all i ever here about is ranger should be gimped for XP.. ranger dont invite the other melee blah blah blah

So if you are a Monk.. and you want to make a bomb cannon party.. are you going to invite another melee? Nope

Most melee understand this.. so they wanted a nerf for rangers so they can be accepted in end game XP parties

So why shouldnt Monk get a nerf? the situation is the same... hell for rangers its worse since most XP parties go to Shrine, not KRT

Regarding the attitude... i dont care weather you guys get one or not.. but it is going to happen.... Like you said.. 1,600 damage (lol) every 3 mins... god shells stacking MNK in place of ranger will take over..and melee will be sitting out and then they will bitch

I like having kited mobs... it brings a kind of variety to the game

If they would of made this patch less severe... ranger could be in on the kited mobs and melee in on the straight up mobs
 
Ya me and Syn talked a lot

We both pretty much agreed that SE should of just straight up lowered our damage on range attacks.. so we are a little bit better then most melee...but not enough to not invite other melees because we are so much better then them

However... You guys need to realize.. even some of you have said it...a MNK and WAR could outdamage us end game XP party wise before the patch... so since they completely gimped us.. we don even come close to them

That is a little overboard since our sole purpase is to do Damage.. and we spend gil to do so :/
 
Elad, hes quite serious about the 1600 chi blasts. I have seen them with my own eyes. But anyway, my final opinion is that SE once again avoided a real problem by giving a popular (most of the posters here are smirking up their sleeve, or openly) and totally overboard solution.

Similar to banning 600 gilsellers on all servers (out of probably thousands) while ignoring the daily gilseller mpks at serket. seriously, i was xping there the other day, when creaativs old char runs by training a bunch of vault weapons, so i figured serket must have popped. You can set your watch by it. But who do they ban? Eol, your friendly Poisonhands camper. He was the worst claimer ive ever seen, and one of the friendliest and most courteous countercampers ive ever encountered. He broke the TOS in no way whatsoever to my knowledge, but out he went while the ones who are reported daily continue to play.

SE likes imaginary solutions. And any change that makes any job less, makes people work harder to gain the same. which means we all keep paying our bills for longer. "But what if all the depressed rngs quit?" Lets not forget that Xbox release is soon....plenty of new accounts to make up for it, and all the other jobs are happier now..... +magic attk earrings, No actual nerf to ninja, Sams are getting much love lately, and monk JSE will likely be along next update...... So what do they have to lose?
 
My last response to this thread will be:

Good luck with end-game, there's no such thing as an easy god fight anymore.
 
_Neosquall_ said:
My last response to this thread will be:

Good luck with end-game, there's no such thing as an easy god fight anymore.
Click to expand...

In all honesty, why should there be? Yeah, sorry if I don't find 3 minute Genbu's fun.

Why should NMs that drop game changing equipment take less time than it takes me to make go afk, make a sandwich, and come back? Why should the wait to refight him take Five Times as long as the actual fight itself?

Theres a reason I stopped doing gods. It's not because I don't have anything to gain from sky anymore, because I like all my friends. It's because things have become so trivial, it's just flat out boring.
 
Also on a personal note, to those that have dismissed this as "the whining of a fast track to 75 damage whore": Syn spent more than a year getting from lvl 1 war to lvl 75 ranger, and once he hit 75, it was more than 8 months before he finally accepted (at the urging of several friends) an invite to Valkyrs, mostly because many of his old old friends were there.
He was invited as a guest to the 1st NA takedown of Kirin by DA, and afterwards was invited to join the shell by Slacker, he took the pearl, but basically never put it on because at the time he wasnt really interested in HNM or anything of the sort.

If that sounds to you like a "fast track to 75" in order to get easy invites to god/hnm shells, then there is something seriously wrong with you. If you dont know him, keep personal attacks to the flame board. Because there are many on these boards who Do know him, and know him well, and it undermines any valid point you may have to make.
 
Skaw said:
You know what? I'm tired of the "Whhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa It happened to me, so it needs to happen to others!" Attitude. You're being no better than the 12 year olds that play World of Warcraft.
Click to expand...

Typical comment of someone who has no clue about the game. Don't start this again you don't want that. By most of your comments on how you'd like the game to be it seems you'd find it rather lovely here. You can "beat er down" most everything end game!
 
I do agree with the people that say that Kirin shouldn't need to be kited. Or, maybe they can increase the maximum distance between you and the target of a melee attack if the target is moving? That would make it possible to still whack Kirin with melee attacks while kiting.

As for making sure each job is useful for Gods, here's an idea: make each of the lesser gods weak to a certain kind of damage, and resistant to all other types. Genbu would take double damage from all magic, but half damage from all other attacks. Suzaku would take double damage from slashing attacks, but half damage from other physical and magic attacks. Seiryu would be weak to piercing, and Byakko to blunt. And make sure that all 4 gods are of similar strength and difficulty if you have the "right" jobs.

That way it might be possible to kill Genbu without BLMs, but it would be a lot harder. Similarly, you could kill the other three with almost nothing but BLMs, but it would be a heck of a lot easier to pick the right type of damage instead of just relying on as many of one job as you can get.

As for Kirin... whenever he summons a mini-god, he gains that god's weaknesses and strengths. So get all the BLMs to come join the alliance and nuke when he summons Genbu, then get rid of them and get RNGs, THFs, and DRGs (yes, DRGs) when he summons Seiryu. And so on. Every job will have a purpose then.
 
You usually dont fight Kirin while he summons

He has a summoning stage that starts couple mins after he pops... he pops all 4 gods within 10-20 min from the start.. and he pops then one after another as well
 
Perhaps they'd rework Kirin's entire fight?

First off, tone down his offense a bit so he won't have to be kited. Same with all the other gods. Maybe make them harder by increasing HP to compensate. Also lower defense and level a bit, so people can actually deal damage instead of hit for 0's...

When he first pops, he spawns all 4 other gods, and gains the half-damage resistance for all 4 damage types. Then during the fight, he randomly spawns a god and becomes weak to that god's weakness. Maybe when he summons a god, he only picks one that's not currently dead - that way, you could sort of control what gods he can summon. Don't want him to become weak to only blunt weapons? Then don't kill the god that's weak to blunt weapons. Want him to be only weak to magic? Only kill the magic-weak god. Yes, it'll be insanely hard to keep those three other gods alive, but on the bright side you'll know what he's weak to all the time, and can plan accordingly. If you simply kill the other gods as soon as they spawn, you won't have to worry about keeping them asleep or anything, but you'll need to either be ready for any weakness he can switch to, or be prepared to have everyone deal crappy damage if he switches to a "bad" weakness.

I don't know, just thinking up odd ways for SE to balance Kirin. Make him a very difficult challenge, but make sure every job can be useful in the fight, since there's nothing else that can compare to fighting him, but also make sure that you don't "need" all the different jobs just to win (hence the idea of being able to control his weakness).
 
Kirin's the only one that actually needs to be kited. The others can be straight tanked. Shadowbind Suzaku and Seiryu when they 2 hour, just keep fighting Genbu and Byakko since Ranged Attacks, Magic, and Chi Blast go through invincible and perfect dodge.
 
I partied with a Rng last night in EXP. I thought coming into this party, good I can finally see first hand how much dmg they were actually gimped. The dmg was noticably lower but still good just not godly. My quams with the nerf now is the Accuracy of WS's. It seems that the nerf has made a ranger not a reliable SC partner. The rng I partied with had decent gear and hit WS "Maybe" 60% of the time. The inability to SC on a regular basis seriously gimped the amount of exp we should have been getting.

I question my stance that Rangers will find a way to be top tier DD's after this. There are several ways to deal with dmg gimps, but accuracy gimps can only be dealt with by stacking acc+ equipment and food, which most rangers do as of now anyways. I can only imagine what WS accuracy is on Gods if the accuracy was this bad on EXP mobs.
 
Skaw said:
_Neosquall_ said:
My last response to this thread will be:

Good luck with end-game, there's no such thing as an easy god fight anymore.
Click to expand...

In all honesty, why should there be? Yeah, sorry if I don't find 3 minute Genbu's fun.

Why should NMs that drop game changing equipment take less time than it takes me to make go afk, make a sandwich, and come back? Why should the wait to refight him take Five Times as long as the actual fight itself?

Theres a reason I stopped doing gods. It's not because I don't have anything to gain from sky anymore, because I like all my friends. It's because things have become so trivial, it's just flat out boring.
Click to expand...

All things in MMO's become boring & easy with time.
 
A good quote from a post on Alla:

As far as max DOT goes: No, it's not over. The reason? there are 5 or 10 decent RNG's that have already learned what those whiny losers in the RNG forums have missed:

RNG hasn't really been nerfed.

Go dig through and find the 2 or 3 intelligent threads. you'll find the differences in damage output is being significantly overstated by people who would rather whine than learn. You'll hear them complaining about pulling hate . . . guess it's time they got a REAL tank [ROTFLMAO]. In short, They lost their "free ride" and are crying over it.


When it comes down to it, what your looking at is a whole bunch of ppl who were told they had to finish their dinner before they got dessert, and they're all throwing temper tantrums over it. The rangers that remain over the next month or so will have my complete respect.
Click to expand...
 
Yup, many RNGs on other boards have posted their results with WAR sub, and they were not bad at all. In fact a few claimed they outperformed what they did pre-update. It just take a lot of manual work now.
 
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