Job Balancing update and details

[Lanien]

massive bump, but mjollnir has 57 damage, that's the highest one handed base damage in the game. company sword in a full party is 56.

About 8 posts above you Cmdr corrected that lol Still though, for a purchaseable weapon, I'd say Company Sword is damn good lol

And I think they should just give loldrg more shit and just rename the new expansion to "WeFeelSorryForTheLoLDrG"

 

[Tiael]

Job balancing is nice and all, but I just want BLU, less than 3 weeks to go! :O

 

[Blaine]

Job balancing is nice and all, but I just want BLU, less than 3 weeks to go! :O

W00T!
its actually 2 weeks and like 4 days. ...then again, that is less then 3 weeks o.o

 

[wolfskymoon]

SE should do something to make all two handed weapons more viable. It seems whenever given the chance, players prefer dualweilding one hand weapons instead of using a twohander. Maybe the delay could be lowered to somewhere between one single hander and dual weild II. I mean, everyone who can dualweild is pretty much doing it, except paladins, so that's the attack speed SE should be balancing great-weapons against. If you compare one great-weapon to one single-hander, things are pretty balanced, but if party trends are any indicator, not being a melee myself, great-weapons in general seem pretty outclassed when dual-weild enters the picture.

They already made 2 handed weapons better but a typical melee who doesn't even know what subtle blow means is bound to go for dual wield.If u hit 3 times and do 80 dmg when a guy who hit once does 75 dmg.. the 75 dmg one is a hell alot better because hes giving very little tp to the mob.

 

[Bigboy]

They already made 2 handed weapons better but a typical melee who doesn't even know what subtle blow means is bound to go for dual wield.If u hit 3 times and do 80 dmg when a guy who hit once does 75 dmg.. the 75 dmg one is a hell alot better because hes giving very little tp to the mob.

hmmm

Now I'm not past 30 with most of my melee jobs, but as I understood it Subtle blow lowered the TP gained by the mob by a pretty flat number. So since each weapon in a dual wield build would individually give a lower TP than the 2 handed weapon, more of the TP given to the mob would be removed. But then I barely know what I'm talking about here and can't even remember where I heard that from.

Reguardless, most people aren't too concerned with TPing the mob at the rates described since it only comes out to 1 more hit per dual wielder but potentially alot more damage and more chances to get TP for the wielder.

 

[Tagrineth]

Bigboy, the mob's TP gain is the same as yours, +2. Since TP is adjusted according to delay, that means Dual Wielders give +2 more TP to the mob every round - assuming equal delay to the two-hander.

 

[Bigboy]

Bigboy, the mob's TP gain is the same as yours, +2. Since TP is adjusted according to delay, that means Dual Wielders give +2 more TP to the mob every round - assuming equal delay to the two-hander.

That aside, it depends on how subtle blow works. Items for THF like Dragon Harness, and Rajas Ring for everyone grant Subtle blow as well.

If I pretend Subtle blow works on a base number (which would be sweet but I doubt it) then I could say the +3 Suble blow on a Rajas ring would reduce the TP given by 3.

Therefor if you had a 2-hander that gave you 10TP and the mob 12TP the ring would make you give it 9TP.

However if you had to axes that each gave you 5TP and the mob 7TP per swing, it would then grant you 10TP and the mob 8TP since you took that -3 off of each weapon swing.

I doubt it works that way because it would be too cool, but thats what I am trying to figure out. Does anyone know the exact effect of subtle blow?

 

[Rones]

Bigboy, the mob's TP gain is the same as yours, +2. Since TP is adjusted according to delay, that means Dual Wielders give +2 more TP to the mob every round - assuming equal delay to the two-hander.

Without subtle blow it is your tp gain + 3. Not 2.

 

[Skaw]

I doubt it works that way because it would be too cool, but thats what I am trying to figure out. Does anyone know the exact effect of subtle blow?

Once you get the trait, mob TP gain off your hits is yours+2%, MNK gets a second trait, which makes it become yours+1%.

For equipment and Ninja merits, it works like Store TP, you need +10 for it to reduce TP gain by a full 1%.

 

[Bigboy]

Eww, so pretty much only THFs in Dragon gear with Rajas rings can accumulate enough Subtle Blow to make a difference then? There isn't much gearwise for other people to notice it's effects, aside from MNKs that is.

http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/list-by-affect.php?affect=Subtle Blow

 

[reddogneo]

I acually like the idea of tranfering some dmg to mp more that givin pld auto refresh, and the shield shit will help greatly. Now plds will get tp and keep mp a whle lot easier. As for drk there a number of things they can do to make scythe more desirible, increase tp, lower delay, change SC placment, any mix of these will make scythe more used. I really like al th other changes pretty well though

 

[kisada]

quoted by Nagamaki on theorderls.com, someone who did extensive testing with subtle blow http://www.theorderls.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3761 :

"OK after all my tests here's what I can state as fact :

TP gain and TP given

When you hit a mob, you and the mob will gain a base amount of TP based on your current attack delay (AD). This AD includes Job Trait speed modifiers like Martial Arts and Dual Speed, but not Haste/Slow gear or spells/songs. The TP you gain is proportionnal to AD, faster = less per hit but same amount of TP as a slower weapon over time assuming both always hit and no other modifiers come into play.

This is why a Lv75 MNK gets less TP gain per hit than a Lv1 MNK with the same weapons.

Whatever the amount of TP you gain per hit, the mob will gain the same amount + 3.

Dagger gives you 5%, mob gets 8%. Naked WHM punching gives you 12%, mob gets 15%. Sword hit gives you say 7.2%, mob gets 10.2%. Spells that deal damage directly when cast (Dia, Bio, all nukes, Drain.. But not Choke/Burn/..) give 10%.

WS TP gain is actually quite simple. On your side, TP is based on hits. You get full TP from the first hit (or first 2 hits with HTH or Dual Wield) and 1% TP per extra hit. The mob gets the same amount of TP it would get from a normal melee round regardless of hits. So if you use a staff that gives the mob 13% normally, all staff WS will give 13%. If you use HTH (without subtle blow) that does 2 hits that each give 8% (5+3), all HTH WS will give 16% base. 1 hit or 8 hits, it doesn't matter.

Subtle Blow

Subtle Blow works the same way Store TP does, except its a % of reduction applied to mob's TP instead of an increase to yours. A HTH hit that gives you 5% TP gives the mob a base amount of 8%. With +25 Subtle Blow, the mob will gain 75% of the amount, so 6%. A staff hit that would give 13% will give 9.75%, and so on.

Based on my calculations, MNK75 gets 25 Subtle Blow from Job Traits gained over levels. I don't know the exact spread of upgrades, but MNK gets Subtle Blow at lv5 for the 1st time. I'm *guessing* NIN75 gets 20 Subtle Blow, since their first Subtle Blow is at Lv15 (I tested lv5 and lv15 by subbing them on lv19 and 30 jobs). A NIN75 with BST sub could easily test this, my NIN is only 55 so I can't get the end game numbers myself.

Subtle Blow applies to ALL ways in which you directly give the mob TP, melee WS or spells. Pet actions are not affected (avatar melee, anything BST pets do, wyverns)."

 

[wolfskymoon]

Isn't TP ganed be being hit always the same? no matter how fast or how hard the mob is hitting the person?.Unlike tp gain to char by weapons.I mean i notice i get ws'd every now n then when i used to party with thfs.But on the other hand with a drk or a warrior with gaxe i'd notice that the mob would ws / do moves at a lower rate

 

[Skaw]

Mobs will always give you only 2~. I've personally only been giving 1 TP on a mobs strike, but have heard people claim they've gotten 3.

 

[Bajaratt]

Mobs will always give you only 2~. I've personally only been giving 1 TP on a mobs strike, but have heard people claim they've gotten 3.

I have gained 3 tp by being hit before, but I was wearing Store TP +20 in gear at the time, so I attributed it to that.

 

[Lavi]

I think the TP a PC gets per hit varies on the mob. I know I usually recieve 2 TP per hit I take and 5 TP every magic attack, but there have been times where I thought I only got one and maybe it was a MNK or NIN mob with Subtle Blow.

And you are party correct WSM. When you use a GA instead of dual wielding two axes you are essentially giving it less TP. Let's take the perfect example of having two axes with ~296 delay each versus a great axe with delay of 504 for a level 75 WAR/NIN.

Two Axes Delay: 592
+ Dual Wield II (-15%): 503.2
Great Axe Delay: 504

Now each hit of the Axes gets the comparable TP of an Axe with half the delay or 252 delay; however, the mob gets the same TP you recieve plus 2 (75 WAR/NIN should recieve Subtle Blow I, reducing TP from 3 to 2) per hit, do for the dual wield an additional 4 TP is given to the mob. With a Great Axe you recieve the amount of TP for 504 delay which is equal to the TP of dual wield axes in our example and the mob recieves 2 TP extra. So dual wielding will give the mob 2 more TP every time you attack which in reality may or may not be negligeable depending on the speed at which you kill the mob. A Great Axe with delay 504 gets about 12.3 TP per swing and lets guess you make exactly 10 swings per kill and 1 WS.

PC: 10 x 12.3 = 123 (TP should be the same for DW Axe or Great Axe regarldless with the same overall delay)
Mob vs GA: 10 x (12.3 + 2) = 143
Mob vs DW Axe: 10 x (12.3 + 4) = 163

TP from GA WS: 12.3
TP to Mob: 14.3
TP from Axe WS: 6.2
TP to Mob: 8.2

Basically the mob should recieve about 14 extra TP (20 more from melee attacks and 6 less from WS) per melee everytime dual wield is introduced by a player per fight. If your party is all melee, the extra TP should add up and fast, but considering most times this becomes an issue is NM/HNMs, you shouldn't be worried too much about TP gain from mobs. Most times this is an issue, you can just build TP on surrounding mobs and engage for WS on the HNM.

I think most of that is right or atleast it sounds correct to me.

 

[Marajade]

Mobs will always give you only 2~. I've personally only been giving 1 TP on a mobs strike, but have heard people claim they've gotten 3.

Its two from nomal mobs, 1 from mobs with subtle blow

 

[Eulore]

massive bump, but mjollnir has 57 damage, that's the highest one handed base damage in the game. company sword in a full party is 56.

And who has a mjollnir? It's whm-onry also so it can only be used on a job with a B+ rating in club and with piss-poor STR. Company sword is still better. From what I heard pld is the only job with an A+ in 1-handed weapons, and we get the one with the best damage (realistically attainable... how many people are running around with relics) if they gave us another hit on vorpal blade (effectively making it like rampage) and the shield block rate was high enough to give us enough tp, then we'd be able to spam vorpal blade for huge dmg and pts would love us.

 

[CmdrFly]

if they gave us another hit on vorpal blade (effectively making it like rampage) and the shield block rate was high enough to give us enough tp, then we'd be able to spam vorpal blade for huge dmg and pts would love us.

I hate to hate, but that typically aint right. Just because you get a 5-hit WS and a bit of TP from shield blocks, doesnt mean you'll be some bitchin DD that will rain Jesus almighty down on your party.

 

[Raesvelg]

I hate to hate, but that typically aint right. Just because you get a 5-hit WS and a bit of TP from shield blocks, doesnt mean you'll be some bitchin DD that will rain Jesus almighty down on your party.

Partially true at least.

STR and DEX wise, there ain't a whole lot of difference between PLD and WAR, for example. In fact, a Galka PLD/WAR is (assuming the stat calculator I've got is correct, and given that it matches up pretty well with my stats, I suspect it is) stronger than a Hume WAR/NIN, and only a little behind on DEX, a difference which, in theory, is more than offset by the PLD's superior weapon skill.
(For the record, if they're both Galka, the STR is tied.)

But.

If we're tanking, we don't have the same leeway on gear as DD do, sadly. Though I suppose improved shield skill might be enough to let us run around with DD gear and hope for the best.