TiyaKelth said:
Let me start off by saying very good post Syn. That's what I wanted you to do from the start (though I wasn't expecting such detail). Now I understand from your standpoint how it can be seen as relevant to the discussion at hand.
Also, after responding to the first few points I'm going to put a disclaimer here not to expect my usual perfect quoting... this is getting complicated
TiyaKelth said:
You agree with Pompidou, yet you point a finger at Vang and call him a gilbuyer because he has good gear, and you "highly suspect" it? Go go hypocrite!
(#1)first off, let me point out that YOU bring up the change of subject here, and look for a reply to a DIFFERENT topic.
Yes, I bring up something from a different
thread. Something that completely pertained to the topic, and actually helped inspire said topic.
I believe the reason you said it came in the post after this original one - to deflate his ego. More on that later.
Synical said:
(#2)Here, in this thread, with that comment, im simply agreeing with his stance on gil buying, how it affects Me, and how the idea that someone with good gear better have the skill and Honor to back up their shit.
This is what I mean about offtopic. The blame half goes to Pom, yes, but he brought up these points in a way that pertains to his opinion about accusing someone of being a gilbuyer. But at this point you simply said I agree. So you agreed with the slightly offtopic part that was supporting his point that was ontopic, but not with his actual point. Gotcha.
Synical said:
(#4)No you are correct, but i never said vang was a crappy ranger. i pointed my finger at him because hes got a crappy approach.
nothing would have brought his ego down a notch faster than first spouting the crap he spews knocking people for bad gear, poor subs, etc.., then being exposed for buying gil.
Right, now that we see your reason for pointing your finger at him, the quote from me is irrelevant.
A question for you now. Did you think he'd respond, "

You caught me?" and that would bring his ego down? Your point #6 would suggest that you were you hoping that rumor would travel fast that Vang buys gil? So you were spreading a lie to pull his ego down? I don't think that you'll say that was it, and it doesn't sound like you, but that's how #6 makes it sound. I'm just not seeing how else pulling a meaningless accusation out of thin air that is very obviously incorrect was supposed to pull his ego down. If anything I think it turned more people against you (as shown by all the posts agreeing that people who point fingers and say gilbuyer are annoying at best).
"Synical" said:
(#5)this entire argument of yours is Still based on the premice that i accused vang out of some kind of warped jealousy. Sadly, you shoot it down yourself in the same paragraph.
your origional post to this thread was about people being jealous of others gear
No, no it wasn't. My original post in the thread was about people pointing fingers at others accusing them of being gilbuyers. I said I assume that in Yoshindor's case it was jealousy. Then at the end of the post I ask why people can't grasp the fact its possible to make gil in this game without cheating. Keep in mind the post topic, and read that question again. I'm trying to find the reason people point their fingers and say "Gilbuyer".
Synical said:
all i wanted to do was agree with pompidou, you brought up all the other crap that forced me to reply to it....
I brought up that you accused Vang of gilbuying. You seem to think that that meant this thread was now the Vang thread.
Synical said:
everything, nothing. there is a disparaging difference in the way you think compared to me tiya. the world is not black and white, and a gil seller can no more exsist than a gil buyer without the other.
when i consider somthing, i consider all angles of it.
That's nice, I agree with you. But we weren't considering actual gilbuyers here either. We were considering people throwing it around as an insult (which it is). Now I understand what you were getting at about gilbuyers being a pain, and then you followed up with how discrediting being found out to be a gilbuyer would be. Again I agree. But throwing gilsellers into the mix isn't simply considering an angle of something, its considering an angle of an angle of your own thought. However, as you say, it was simply one line in a post, and I blew it out of proportion to show one way in which you trail off topic.
Synical said:
as for this "...people pointing fingers and calling "gilbuyer" whenever someone has good gear. You know, like you did in Vang's thread."
well, its obvious to me that you were still hopped up from the post previous to this one.
so i respond in kind.[/color]
Don't pull my posts out of context and twist the wording. What I actually said was:
"I will gladly continue to view you as a hypocrite, until you stop acting like one.
Again, you agree with Pompidou, who says he wouldn't say anything about someone buying gil even if he knew it was fact, yet you throw out that accusation against someone that's easily proven to not buy gil. Tell me how that isn't hypocritical?"
Self explanatory.
I don't care that you're "probably" equipped as good as a rng can be. Does that mean I should point my finger at you and say, "I have a strong suspicion that he buys gil" inorder to discredit you? I don't think so.
Synical said:
"Why do some Poeple With Elite gear and Mils in gil Forget that there are Individuals behind the Toons, who maybe could bring interesting views to them, but never get the chance because they arent "Elite" enough to play"?
-My answer: Because people with elite gear and mils in gil are obviously dedicated to their job. They've done the research. They've looked into every nook and cranny of their job. What would some n00b in gear half as good as them who obviously doesn't care to be the best they can be have to offer?
A note: I'm not one of said people, I will take criticism in any form, and if I feel that it's good criticism, I will apply what I learnt. I simply understand the mindset.
Synical said:
you brought up the Other post refrencing vangs and my discussion more than once here, i simply replied to those
This, again, is where you're confused. Bringing up one point from another thread isn't the same as bringing up the whole thread. You replied to things going on in the thread, not to the point I brought up.
Synical said:
now for mine.
answer it. you didnt. just like i didnt answer yours.
I didn't answer yours because it was offtopic. You didn't answer mine because you were too busy trying to pull the Vang thread into that one. See the difference?
Synical said:
i do believe that was the first time ive ever "pointed a finger" for such a thing.
I'm guessing it will be the last time also. 8)
(no, ill use whatever i think is useful or appropriate)
Synical said:
now if i walked up to any random person in jueno (perfect stranger) and examined him, saw all of his mils in gear on, and began to accuse him of buying gil, or ask him how much real money he spent on all of it, if i did that Even Once, then yes, you would be correct. As it stands i have not. if you take me accusing vang Out of Context, and Remove Reason, then yes, from that particular standpoint i suppose i would be.
I have a question. What was the basis of your accusation? I now know the purpose, but what did you base it on? His gear and gil? Obviously. Then you accuse him of buying gil. The only difference between what you did and what you described is that one is ingame, and one is out of game. That's it, nothing else.
Synical said:
just to point out your first reply to me contained vangs name 5 times, the second one 3. -_- (me = 1)
nothing from that thread was any less irrelevant to this one, than it was to that one.
That's nice. I wasn't aware that I wasn't supposed to use his name when talking about something that directly involved him. You do realise that bringing up one point involving He Who I Shall Not Name isn't the same as bringing up every point involving him, right?
Synical said:
As for my very last post into That thread, yea, it had nothing to do with anything. but your so much like a child really.
Yeah, it was rather childish for me to break up your post in a logical way. It wasn't childish at all to purposely start posting way off topic (as you admit you did) just because you didn't want to reply. Not at all.
Synical said:
"arguing with people that Don't understand a life affirming mental change will tend to glance right over things."
It wasn't the thought itself that doesn't make sense, its the sentence structure that is illegible. Arguing with people like that (me, apparently) will what? Is what? Did what? Your sentence is incomplete. I understand the insult you're trying to throw at me, which I could easily reverse and throw back at you, but it sounded like you were getting at something else. Guess I was wrong.
I'm sure I missed some things, I tried not to repeat myself too often by responding to the same point multiple times in the post, but I'm pretty sure by cutting stuff out I missed one or two things that I should have responded to. Feel free to bring them to my attention so I can respond. Flame me for missing them, if you wish.
Time to read Grieve's post and respond to it in another post. Stay tuned :wink:
yes tiya you missed a few things.
"I brought up that you accused Vang of gilbuying. You seem to think that that meant this thread was now the Vang thread. "
"This, again, is where you're confused. Bringing up one point from another thread isn't the same as bringing up the whole thread. You replied to things going on in the thread, not to the point I brought up."
Incorrect.
the point you brought up in your intial reply was:
#1
"You agree with Pompidou, yet you point a finger at Vang and call him a gilbuyer because he has good gear, and you "highly suspect" it? Go go hypocrite!"
#2
You are the exact kind of person that this is thread is about Synical. Vang and you were arguing, and it became apparent that Vang had better gear than you. What do you do? You say: "I highly suspect he buys gil", and then flame him for the next few paragraphs of that post, based on your (false) suspicion. GJ Syn, I was hoping you'd show up in here so that you could shed light on the other side of the argument.
the tone here is personal. the innuendo, personal. what did you expect me to do, say "yes tiya im a fucking hypocrite, im so jealous of vang, i want to Be him?"
instead, following natural progression, and pulling into mind the Reasons your reply to my quite simple post were loaded with malice, we get this:
"you in fact Infer the entire past thread into this one. its simpe law, you present a piece of evidence, yet the manner in which it is presented takes it out of context and makes it look worse than it is. that opens the door to me, for bringing forth the situation behind the evidence."
heres a visual summary to help you see it a bit better:
old post <---New post--->i reply to pom--->you accuse me of being a hyppocrite and indirectly mention old post--->you force me to Defend with the idea that im a hypocrite, which requires Background to disprove.
in disproving, using the old post in that post, i bring up only a very few points that directly relate to you saying #1, & #2 above.
you opened the door, all i did was walk through.
as for this:
I'm trying to find the reason people point their fingers and say "Gilbuyer".
people or me?
you would like to know what my basis was then? let me see if i can remember, because astoundingly, you are reading far more into this than there ever was...you should do that for some other more interesting ideas.
but i said somthing along the lines of "thats what a guess is a shot in the dark." as in totally Not based On Shit.
what did i hope to gain?
a reaction.
Any reaction.
Of Course i never expected him to Admit to it, jesus. I never accused vang of being a fucking Nitwit, as one would have to be to say YES, I BUY GIL!
christ, the reaction didnt even matter, i just wanted to study his habits a bit more. just one more piece in the puzzle so to speak.
he doesnt need to admit to such things to aid me or others in pointing out his ego problems. hes adding enough to the fire on his own.
and providing enough material to accurately profile him, which was all i was doing at the time.
and you left out the last part of my reply. for simplicity sake i will not repost it here, they are already long enough, its easy enough to scroll up.
Vang sort of hints understanding, but continues to wrap himself up in his blankey on this page and the next in replies to grieve.
you say you dont quite see what i was getting at here:
"Arguing with people that don't understand a life affirming mental change will tend to glance right over things."
"It wasn't the thought itself that doesn't make sense, its the sentence structure that is illegible. Arguing with people like that (me, apparently) will what? Is what? Did what? Your sentence is incomplete. I understand the insult you're trying to throw at me, which I could easily reverse and throw back at you, but it sounded like you were getting at something else. Guess I was wrong.
insult? no, no insult.
i see three questions in your reply to this. thats GREAT! how is it incomplete? Reverse away!
heres the great thing about statements like this, and their sole purpose.
seriously, a statement such as that one is intentionally, and on a gigantic scale, one that has so many implications to a persons thoughts that its quite simply amazing how such a small twelve inch string of words can contain such unfathomably large ideas.
theres nothing incomplete about it.
its the reader that makes sense of statements like that by bringing their own considerations into the field.
it does apply to you and vang though, if you cant tell me How, then your eyes arent open enough to see yet.
(if the sentence structure is incorrect, please feel free to correct it and show me how? all ive done is added the correct punctuation above, fix away.)
im going to go eat my (now cold) bk burger now.
remember to retain Context if you quote back to me about anything in here. You Didnt, in this post, but im not interested in being picky.
~Syn