Kaizen "leadership"

[Arthur]

You can blame them when they are being hypocritical about "separate politics" for separate shells. But then again, would a decent and mature person expect from asstards like that. Good leadership doesnt let shit like that interfere with their shell. Petty bastards. I'm with Lyall and Rampage on this one.

I really don't understand that <_<. How can a flame, really not intefere with the shell... No different then calling your boss stupid and worthless then expecting it to be ok.

 

[Lyall]

I really don't understand that <_<. How can a flame, really not intefere with the shell... No different then calling your boss stupid and worthless then expecting it to be ok.

S'closer to having a friend call your boss a moron and then getting fired "for the good of the company." Innocent people got the shaft for this, but that's covered in another flame.

 

[Dejavu]

A++++, would read again. I'll say my peace later when I can put together a formal post, but for now: I hate that Gains is killing what used to be a good shell.

Hoolay for innocence.. Since im pretty sure this guy was the one with the most to lose.

 

[Lyall]

Hoolay for innocence.. Since im pretty sure this guy was the one with the most to lose.

You're still talking for some reason. God forbid someone speak up against what turned out to be a tyrannical organization of cockslurpers. Feeling good, Deja? I bet you're hard as a rock over all of this.

 

[jyakotsu]

Just wanted to point a few of these out to everyone.

Bump.
I just wanted to let everyone know that doing dynamis with limitless is a very good way(although not guaranteed, of course) to join the main end game linkshell (Kaizen). We haven't really done a public recruitment yet, so when we usually recruit, one of the ways we do it is by looking for people from dynamis/einherjar/limbus, etc...

Honestly, just so everyone knows. which obviously they should after this flame. Kaizen dips its paws into limitless whenever they want to. They use it as a way to weed out the shitty players. If you never got an invite to kaizen and joined limitless, guess what... they thought you were shitty, and they keep you around to do the grunt work in getting one of their top players a relic.

If any of this Kaizen shit actually affects Limitless operations, that's going directly against what all of us have been told since day 1 about Kaizen / Limitless interactions. That they're separate shells with separate leadership decisions.

If Kaizen leadership feels the need to "get back" at Lyall over this flame by destroying friday Dynamis, I don't know what the fuck. I've got issues with them, but I trust them enough to not do that.

Sorry Ikari, you all got fucked for no reason.

I do not say anywhere in my response that I am representing Kaizen. I am representing myself, so please do not use general terms for one person.

Honestly, you just made yourself look like a fucking hypocrite. You kicked 7 people from einherjar based upon one person's actions on the flameboard. Hypocrite much? You would refer to their group as "them" and glomp them together as one entity, yet you don't like it when Lyall references you as Kaizen? Wow.

You're proving the point, though. You're a part of the same shell I used to be in, you were a part of the same policies I was, you were at the same events I was, yet you won't say anything in one direction or the other. Your silence is exactly what is expected whenever Kaizen gets mentioned in anything dramatic. The fact you HAVE been posting in this thread without commenting on the original topic is testament to Kaizen's refusal to do anything for their public image.

You could represent Kaizen but you have a standing gag order to never comment on anything that might make the shell look bad (worse). Inaction is still an action, every single officer has viewed this thread today, current and pre-existing, and every one of them bit their tongues. If I'm wrong, why didn't anyone come forward to plead their case?

There's a reason most people thought Kaizen didn't exist anymore. Outside of the shell, you don't.

One man representing an organization makes for large assumpations(pretty sure I spelled that wrong)... I do not want that responsibility, that is why I declined the leadership that Kaizen asked me. (I try to stay out of the lime light as much as possible)

Now, for my personal incite into this entire matter, I will say that a huge weight has been lifted from Kaizen's chest. When Rone and I incorporated you into our smn burns, how was that favor repaid? It was not, I made the effort, you had taken the xp and continued to smn burn and did not bother to return the favor. I will agree that your application as a whole was at a moment of weakness in Kaizen's history. Honestly, what does it matter that some of the gear was uncontested? You got the gear, does it make any less useful? You put the work in and were rewarded for that work. Honestly, I am surprised since you being a sponsor of limitless would not want to venture into HNM of Sandworm or DI. They can make money and they are open air claims not a dungeon.

How hard is it to wear a pearl that could do event potentially do an event at the drop of a hat (Not HNM) we used to do random sea and sky farming. The fact that we did them and do not do them at the moment should make no difference, the movement will wane like everything else. Like most shells there are ups and downs, if there is no drive we do not do it. Even when I first joined the shell we were doing Fafnir and Tiamat, that is not as time consuming. Fafnir you sit in the Aery for a little while go afk, and earn points. All I ever did was watch movies and play my ps3. Tiamat, leave a mule and if it is up see who is on and try to claim.

Bottom line Kaizen will go it's own and you will go yours. I look forward to the next week to see how your reactions will play out in a shell you could not get along and want to do Einherjar with these same group of people.

TG I want to ask you, were lyall and the rest of the NB's accepted with the indication that having a social shell was ok? Were they accepted based upon the fact that you all weren't doing HNM's at the time? If you kicked them based upon the same reasons that they were allowed to join in the first place... is that right? Just checking.

Honestly, TG and Deja you two cited the same stupid arguments that have huge flaws in them. Deja basically told Lyall, that because of his actions he blackballed Ramp out of an E body, which seems as if this is exactly what happened. Honestly, if the four shells are supposed to be seperate entities which you all keep saying they are. Why were Ikari and Ramp kicked from Einherjar?

Also Deja just so that you know. You removing those people from Limitless without a warning to the rest of the shell on friday makes it very confusing for the rest of the shell. You say that you want them to do their own thing? You fucked them worse than anything they could have done to TG.

 

[Tristam Green]

I am sad that the phrase "TG" keeps popping up in this thread in a negative light. I reserve rights to seek defamation damages on the grounds that I, too, am a TG

 

[Xalioniaf]

Someone change it to "T to the G".

This flame is bonkers. Quit being bonkers.

 

[Arthur]

Just wanted to point a few of these out to everyone.


Honestly, just so everyone knows. which obviously they should after this flame. Kaizen dips its paws into limitless whenever they want to. They use it as a way to weed out the shitty players. If you never got an invite to kaizen and joined limitless, guess what... they thought you were shitty, and they keep you around to do the grunt work in getting one of their top players a relic.


Sorry Ikari, you all got fucked for no reason.

Honestly, you just made yourself look like a fucking hypocrite. You kicked 7 people from einherjar based upon one person's actions on the flameboard. Hypocrite much? You would refer to their group as "them" and glomp them together as one entity, yet you don't like it when Lyall references you as Kaizen? Wow.



TG I want to ask you, were lyall and the rest of the NB's accepted with the indication that having a social shell was ok? Were they accepted based upon the fact that you all weren't doing HNM's at the time? If you kicked them based upon the same reasons that they were allowed to join in the first place... is that right? Just checking.

Honestly, TG and Deja you two cited the same stupid arguments that have huge flaws in them. Deja basically told Lyall, that because of his actions he blackballed Ramp out of an E body, which seems as if this is exactly what happened. Honestly, if the four shells are supposed to be seperate entities which you all keep saying they are. Why were Ikari and Ramp kicked from Einherjar?

Also Deja just so that you know. You removing those people from Limitless without a warning to the rest of the shell on friday makes it very confusing for the rest of the shell. You say that you want them to do their own thing? You fucked them worse than anything they could have done to TG.

To the kaizen invitation thing. Not really no, they were not recuriting the entire time. But yes as said before Limitless is trial groud for Kaizen. Was Alberic even a Kaizen member when she because the sponser at first? Its really messed up to even say that because for example Courtney has been leading/co leading dynamis for yeaars. Do they have a relic? No. Does Court even lot/bid equipment much? No.

Thats the thing, it never was seperate. Just because its different people for each group minus a few people like me and Jeska who do Monday, Friday dynamis and Einherjar doesn't mean Kaizen isn't still under control. It a bit more then Truegrave leading monday, Ilana leading Einherjar and Courtney co-leading Friday. They are also Kaizen leads/sacs/members so to me its obvious that you shouldn't be flaming them or there co-leads and hope nothing to go wrong. Like I said in the other thread, it does suck all of them got into the mess when people like seik and tsiife did really nothing. =/ But correct me if im wrong, all 7 of the NB members joined kaizen together, all 7 refused to do the pearl policy, all 7 left and was forced out together.

Also, I have no idea why you keep going after Truegrave, just becauce him and Dejavu mentioned it doesn't mean they made that happen. I auto-assumed it right after the flame personally for Einherjar, Friday dynamis I wasn't sure because Kaizen didn't/doesn't seem to be controlling it at all other then Courtney who is MIA.

 

[Arthur]

S'closer to having a friend call your boss a moron and then getting fired "for the good of the company." Innocent people got the shaft for this, but that's covered in another flame.

More specifically its if the boss hired 7 friends for a job, and after boss being called moron by 1 person 2~3 others agree and then all 7 getting fired. Yes still unfair but -.-.

 

[Inunabe]

More specifically its if the boss hired 7 friends for a job, and after boss being called moron by 1 person 2~3 others agree and then all 7 getting fired. Yes still unfair but -.-.

Normally I stay off the FB, aside from reading it, I don't post. I've been following this conversation very closely as the NBs are friends of mine.

When you put it this simply, it makes perfect sense imo. If I hired a group of 7 close friends, and it came to my attention that a decent number of them agree with someone calling me an idiot, there's a good chance I may consider firing all of them. If 1 person calls me an idiot, and 3 agree, out of a group of 7 that's the majority that think thusly. If I just fired one, or even the ones that agreed, there still may be some hostile feelings that build up with the ones remain. This may make the work place incredibly tense for everyone, not just that group of friends. If a work place is that tense, productivity my grind to a screeching halt as there will be constant failures in communication, slower response times, and just a general decrease in work ethics. If I need to oust that to increase productivity, then so be it, because as terrible as it sounds, it's a necessary action in order for the goals of that work environment to be accomplished.

All of that being said, this situation is NOT as simple as the afore mentioned one. There are a few obvious facts, or at least statements that do make Kaizen appear obviously brazen, and full of some over all douchebaggery. It's been repeatedly mentioned that, while apparently the shells are run by kaizen members, the shell's politics were supposed to be separate. That's my biggest issue with this whole thing. While I can sort of understand the kicking everyone from Kaizen specifically, not that I'm condoning it, I think kicking them from the other shells was a poor move.

Bad form Peter, errr...I mean Kaizen. Bad Form

Inunabe

 

[Liefe]

I didn't read the entire thread, but I actually think for serious endgame you kind of need to be in one shell almost all the time...most games don't even let you choose. In the context of Kaizen though? What do I know if it was appropriate or not?

I hope you're able to find something else that you like though. That's really the key to enjoying this game. If you stay in an LS regardless of the reward you get but you aren't happy it does negatively impact your desire to play.

 

[Mattaru]

I like to think I am a pretty reasonable person. I think most people in NB would agree. I remember seeing Gains post in the forum, and honestly thinking it was pretty diplomatic.

I think NB people are right to be angry that when they originally joined the shell Kaizen was not doing endgame heavily nor was there much of a desire. When NB came up in the recruitment thread we basically decided although it was without precedent, we were willing to compromise and be lax on long-standing policies to be accommodating. This had caused a problem before the most recent incident, but we worked it out. Still I was not too surprised to see it come up again. What I garnered from Gains post was that there was interest in a new direction and really required full-time commitment to the shell when you play. Thems the breaks, you simply can't allow people to sit out of the shell when they feel like it if people want to do HNMs.

Some resentment being reasonable? Sure. Burning bridges and going all rage? Probably not worth it.

I herd Voltaire got to sponsor a worthless relic because he was Mea's bro.

^Inside joke.

 

[Courtney]

For those Limitless Friday people that have been following this, there will be the normal scheduled combined run with lolD this Friday. It's seriously in the interests of both shells that the combined runs continue after that (hopefully the results from the last couple of months combined runs show that), but that will require agreement between the people running both shells (and certainly the members of both shells as well). At the moment, I don't see any reason the current Friday situation shouldn't continue, but obviously there's been a lot going on.

Anyone who's ever been to the flameboard would know how rarely you get any accurate information out of it. It surprises me a bit how inaccurate the info is this time, having been in the middle of most of this, even down to the point of Dejavu kicking people from Einherjar. He isn't in Kaizen, he doesn't do Einherjar (with us at least), and he doesn't get to kick anyone, lol. I guess thats what happens when you try to get involved in one of these "discussions" though...

You may now return to your regularly scheduled flame.

 

[somedude]

from a lold stand point i see firday's joint runs as notihing but busness as usual. i do not, nor have i had any issues with anyone in limitless. they have all been fair and willing to work together with us. this issue has nothing to do with lold, and we would be more than happy to contnue working with limitless. we feel EVERYONE is more than welcome.

hope to see you all firday!!

 

[Arthur]

For those Limitless Friday people that have been following this, there will be the normal scheduled combined run with lolD this Friday. It's seriously in the interests of both shells that the combined runs continue after that (hopefully the results from the last couple of months combined runs show that), but that will require agreement between the people running both shells (and certainly the members of both shells as well). At the moment, I don't see any reason the current Friday situation shouldn't continue, but obviously there's been a lot going on.

Anyone who's ever been to the flameboard would know how rarely you get any accurate information out of it. It surprises me a bit how inaccurate the info is this time, having been in the middle of most of this, even down to the point of Dejavu kicking people from Einherjar. He isn't in Kaizen, he doesn't do Einherjar (with us at least), and he doesn't get to kick anyone, lol. I guess thats what happens when you try to get involved in one of these "discussions" though...

You may now return to your regularly scheduled flame.

Been waiting for this, ty!

 

[toqabowl]

your gonna have to convince me more than that reply courtney to stay w/ ya :nono:

but to be fair I will be there on Friday's run(if im around, since it is a friday)

I can sponsor, but I cant sponsor as many runs as i said in the PM awhile ago since i spent my gil on a KC :rtfm:

also: WTF is with jeuno + northland x3 this month....we supposed todo 1 xarc 1 beauc 1 city and 1 dreamland :/

I always though of fridays limitless as totally seperate from kaizen from when Creamygoodness got me in the shell 3 years ago. We were good back in the day, cant we be as good nowadays as we were back then??

 

[Lyall]

I just posted something similar in another thread, but I think it's worth mentioning here.

160~ replies, 4000~ views and no post from Kaizen defending their side of things, as expected. While this has been an enlightening journey, and all the horses have been beaten to death, and all of the off-topics have been exhausted, I think it's time to put this ugly thing to rest. There's not really anything else to discuss or reveal here, and given the stats of this page, I highly doubt Gains or any Kaizen "leader" is going to refute anything that's been posted.

Fun fight, though. I love a good knock-down, drag-out brawl, even if the people who deserved the punches left the party early. =/

 

[Hexx]

I really don't understand that <_<. How can a flame, really not intefere with the shell... No different then calling your boss stupid and worthless then expecting it to be ok.

as others before me have said, its ok if they threw lyall out because of it, but its a douchebag move because A) they had stated each shell had separate politics, B) just cuz ramp and lyall agree that Kaizen's leadership is stupid, didnt mean they had to kick the rest of the NB's for that. I mean hell, its like you being out somewhere, you call your dads boss an asshole for cutting you off, and then the boss goes and fires your dad, as well as anyone else related to you even though they had nothing to do with the insult.

 

[Miros]

I just posted something similar in another thread, but I think it's worth mentioning here.

160~ replies, 4000~ views and no post from Kaizen defending their side of things, as expected. While this has been an enlightening journey, and all the horses have been beaten to death, and all of the off-topics have been exhausted, I think it's time to put this ugly thing to rest. There's not really anything else to discuss or reveal here, and given the stats of this page, I highly doubt Gains or any Kaizen "leader" is going to refute anything that's been posted.

Fun fight, though. I love a good knock-down, drag-out brawl, even if the people who deserved the punches left the party early. =/

/salutes