Let's just be honest with everyone please

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Miros

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Hi there folks :)

Now let me first start of by saying that I have nothing against anyone on this board. Hell, it was me who moved it here so you guys could have more privacy without worrying about the board. It seems therein lies the problem. This board has almost turned into a place to bash the moderation team and almost start telling people that you'll be asking for the banhammer. I won't lie, it is not exactly going to help the site move in the direction that I think we all want it to.

I personally would love to see this board flourish again with people who can come here to post good information on FFXI, while at the same time be able to enjoy some off topic humor and whatnot in the certain forums that are set up.

Anywho, I'm going off topic. I just need some honest answers from some people on certain topics. I've already had one member go crazy posting porno on the boards which led to a perma-ban. I really don't want to have to deal with that again. I have no qualms with keeping the B@W board at all. I like the idea a lot. And I know you all have gotten to know eachother really well. Hell, I talk to half of you a lot as it is now anyways.

It gets really frustrating when I hear that people will intentionally be getting infractions or intentionally doing things to get themselves banned. I would rather hear the truth and if anyone would like to be removed from QCDN, then please tell me now and be the more mature person. I do not want to see anyone banned, however I do not want to sit back and wonder when the day is that someone will think it's a "cool" thing to do to get infractioned.

I know cliques were mentioned and well...this is probably the biggest clique on the board. Dino is certainly not in mine. Makelith? Hell I didn't even know him much before I let him in. Arc was an aquantiance (sp) that had coding background which is why he is here. The only person I'd say that is part of my clique is Myrid.

So just please let me know beforehand. Comments like "A colored name without donating money or gluing my lips to a mod/admins ass" are harsh. Frankly they are also uncalled for.

So talk to me people. :) Let me know what's up. It's obvious people are getting disgruntled but I'm not sure if it's a band wagon thing or if there really is a problem. Let me know. I'll be monitoring this thread.
 
Kotsu just dislikes Audino, that's all it really comes down to lol. I never got the impression from anyone at B@W that people were unhappy and disgruntled with the Mod Squad.
 
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Zephayra said:
Kotsu just hates Audino, that's all it really comes down to lol. I never got the impression from anyone at B@W that people were unhappy and disgruntled with the Mod Squad.
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Well with this current situation and this thread http://www.qcdn.org/ffxi/showthread.php?t=64604 it's something that is awkward for me if you know what I mean. Am I going to have to worry about Dino becoming the next bad guy of QCDN? Those are the kinds of things that are going through my mind. He has a different way of putting things, but they get the job done. Also he's been a huge help in the background. He does a lot of work. Users can't see what he's done though and I think that's held against him.
 
I personally have no intention of posting anything worthy of infractions and I realize that you're probably not talking about me. I personally don't like seeing anyone getting bashed in this section although I have taken part in laughing at some outrageous things and ranted about a few. I have stated in this section before that I don't like it when people delight in the harm of others including when my hubby has done it before.

I personally think that the mod staff has been doing a better job of taking care of the place. A lot of treads used to get derailed the moment that it was posted due to many, many pc+1s and such. I don't like the Flameboard in general and although I thought some of the pc+1 posts were funny, it is a lot easier to follow with all of that. I think the npc members are pretty cool. :) A clever way to post announcements. Maybe for future contests other than the member of the year?

I agree with Zeph that it's probably just the Audino and Kotsu thing. I don't really remember seeing anyone bash a mod other than Lucki's voice of unhappiness a while back. I could be wrong. I know that Tristam likes most of the mods. I can't speak for anyone else. I don't think that Kotsu should let Audino get to him so easily but I still <3 Kotsu. Not everyone is going to like every mod that was chosen to mod. Some people deal with it in different ways both good and bad.

I realize that most of the stuff that I posted sounds like I'm a kissass but that's what I think.
 
Miros said:
Well with this current situation and this thread http://www.qcdn.org/ffxi/showthread.php?t=64604 it's something that is awkward for me if you know what I mean. Am I going to have to worry about Dino becoming the next bad guy of QCDN? Those are the kinds of things that are going through my mind. He has a different way of putting things, but they get the job done. Also he's been a huge help in the background. He does a lot of work. Users can't see what he's done though and I think that's held against him.
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Well, the Jamal thing was taken care of. People are allowed to express disappointment in leadership when leadership drops the ball. To be a leader is to have everything rest on your shoulders. You bear the burden of failure alone yet share the relief of success with all. That's a true leader. So needless to say, there will always be a bit of a mutinous disappointment when leadership fails. In these regards, Audino fails. Jamal passed the torch of hatred over to his good, thinks-he-makes-a-difference ++++ of a friend. I'm not breaking my back to give him respect. I respect people for who they are, what they do, and how they do it. That respect doesn't stem from a video game, it's a RL thing. He doesn't deserve it, and that shit aint my problem. He just doesn't get it. Besides, I wouldn't have raised a stink over it if he would have simply not called me out as a prick. At least he's better than giant-miss-pur'fect. He'll say it to my face. However, I didn't call his ass out. I said someone was being a petty prick. Not is one. Not he was one. Someone's behavior. So, by our fairly liberal, tissue padding the tears of the weak rule, he should have 4 points for flamebaiting :awesome: And another point for just being him.
 
I believe the "asking for the banhammer." was in reference to a post/thread/whatever I made a while back, and to be completely honest, I don't really remember why I wanted that. I think it was either right before/during/after Kotsu made his hilarious FB post against Jamal, and there was some concern that he'd be perma-banned because of it*. My worry was that Kotsu was going to get perma-banned for just one instance (granted, it had RL info in it, but that isn't/wasn't perma-ban material for 1st time offense), where as Jamal has belittled/flamebaited/threatened people for as long as I can remember coming to this site. If that had happened, I just didn't think that I could justify coming to this site anymore because to me, that would be favoritism in the highest form. Kotsu's perma-ban didn't happen, but was dealt with accordingly, so I didn't have any problems with it. I do think that eventually giving Jamal the boot was the correct decision for this site, even if it was late in coming. QCDN seemed to have calmed down immensely since his departure.

Since the Kotsu/Jamal incident, I don't think I've posted anything on the FB (I browse it alot, but don't remember posting anything) due to not wanting to wade in the shitstorms that usually follow good threads. These days I mostly post here, a select few Job threads, and even less OT/RSI threads, and I'm content with that.

*I was giving an infraction in that thread (wouldn't have surprised me if it was Jamal that reported my post) which did kinda annoy me since it had to do with clearing up some misinformation that didn't have to do with the OP, but was brought up later.
 
Miros said:
Well with this current situation and this thread http://www.qcdn.org/ffxi/showthread.php?t=64604 it's something that is awkward for me if you know what I mean. Am I going to have to worry about Dino becoming the next bad guy of QCDN? Those are the kinds of things that are going through my mind. He has a different way of putting things, but they get the job done. Also he's been a huge help in the background. He does a lot of work. Users can't see what he's done though and I think that's held against him.
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To be fair, that whole thing you posted has blown over since its passed. I believe the issue had to do with Jamal and the mod staff because of a certain thing (which I won't mention because its a sore spot for everyone) which happened. Even after Jamal had been dealt with in his limited posting access, a lot of people felt more satisfied with the mod team for more or less, muzzling the pitbull, who was causing problems for everyone on the board, and not just B@W.

I actually feel that there has no real mentions of the mods and deliberate permabanning since that thread. Occassionaly Dumbass (Kotsu) will butt heads with Audino and I jokingly say "I think you want to be on Read Only Access" again because Kotsu had once been given an infraction for flame baiting, as well as his RO for posting RL stuff, which the Xzerper's thread post MAY have been interpreted as.

I also was joking when I said he loved Read Only Access for calling a mod a prick, to which he didn't know it was Audino who had actually been the one to deliver the punishment. What he said here at B@W I'd take with a grain of salt.

I personally agree with you about Audino. I have some personal issues with him, which is neither here nor there, but I still think he is a good mod and does a lot of work. However, you can see why people get upset when they are told they are no longer able to post how they used to just because the mods feel that its that type of behvaior that keeps people away from the site.

I think people come here not because of information - there are plenty of sites they can go to, and I actually feel that wiki is better to answer general questions. But I do feel that the site is good for event planning, strategies and yes, meeting people or having a way to talk to people in the game without having to use MSN (some of us cant access MSN at work) or be in the game.

I understand where the mods are coming from, but I understand that people don't like being told they have to tone down joking around just because this place needs to have a better image. At the end of the day, new people are going to come and go, but those who have been here for years are always going to be around. It's not a bad idea to cater to bring in newpeople, but the place shouldn't forget its roots.
 
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I'll give my perspective on this matter.

I. hate. giving. infractions. Don't blame Audino for not banning Jamal -- I honestly would have been justified banning him a very very long time before he actually was. However, as many say, this site isn't meant to be wholly serious and nor is it the ideal execution of justice.

I am as responsible for people receiving more chances than should be given as Audino is for actually following through with the system in place to deal with offenders. I came in stong as a moderator enforcing the rules ... and I didn't change at all from then to now -- the site has improved that much. I am no longer "the banning moderator." That is the progress we have made and I like that the site is a much friendlier place.

If people start posting to get themselves banned, I will be happy to help. I just don't see why. I like almost everyone here. Lets not take this stuff too seriously. We just don't want to see the place become a free-for-all-in-all-places. Time and places do exist for your convenience as well as our goals for the site. That is what we want to enforce.
 
Kotsu said:
Well, the Jamal thing was taken care of. People are allowed to express disappointment in leadership when leadership drops the ball. To be a leader is to have everything rest on your shoulders. You bear the burden of failure alone yet share the relief of success with all. That's a true leader. So needless to say, there will always be a bit of a mutinous disappointment when leadership fails. In these regards, Audino fails. Jamal passed the torch of hatred over to his good, thinks-he-makes-a-difference ++++ of a friend. I'm not breaking my back to give him respect. I respect people for who they are, what they do, and how they do it. That respect doesn't stem from a video game, it's a RL thing. He doesn't deserve it, and that shit aint my problem. He just doesn't get it. Besides, I wouldn't have raised a stink over it if he would have simply not called me out as a prick. At least he's better than giant-miss-pur'fect. He'll say it to my face. However, I didn't call his ass out. I said someone was being a petty prick. Not is one. Not he was one. Someone's behavior. So, by our fairly liberal, tissue padding the tears of the weak rule, he should have 4 points for flamebaiting :awesome: And another point for just being him.
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From my perspective, it just looks like you've taken your hatred for jamal and just automatically put it towards Audino because he doesn't do things the same way you would and that his behavior isn't like yours. The thing is...he does make a difference. Though you may see his attitude as jamal's, he has his own flavor. He calls people out in the appropriate forums, doesn't threaten people, and doesn't beat around the bush with certain items. Frankly, I like the fact that he doesn't baby people around here. To me, it seems that you haven't even bothered giving him a chance and the cyle of the bad guy is happening yet again.

Lucki said:
I believe the "asking for the banhammer." was in reference to a post/thread/whatever I made a while back, and to be completely honest, I don't really remember why I wanted that. I think it was either right before/during/after Kotsu made his hilarious FB post against Jamal, and there was some concern that he'd be perma-banned because of it*. My worry was that Kotsu was going to get perma-banned for just one instance (granted, it had RL info in it, but that isn't/wasn't perma-ban material for 1st time offense), where as Jamal has belittled/flamebaited/threatened people for as long as I can remember coming to this site. If that had happened, I just didn't think that I could justify coming to this site anymore because to me, that would be favoritism in the highest form. Kotsu's perma-ban didn't happen, but was dealt with accordingly, so I didn't have any problems with it. I do think that eventually giving Jamal the boot was the correct decision for this site, even if it was late in coming. QCDN seemed to have calmed down immensely since his departure.

Since the Kotsu/Jamal incident, I don't think I've posted anything on the FB (I browse it alot, but don't remember posting anything) due to not wanting to wade in the shitstorms that usually follow good threads. These days I mostly post here, a select few Job threads, and even less OT/RSI threads, and I'm content with that.

*I was giving an infraction in that thread (wouldn't have surprised me if it was Jamal that reported my post) which did kinda annoy me since it had to do with clearing up some misinformation that didn't have to do with the OP, but was brought up later.
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I can understand your point of view. I at least hope you understand where I am coming from though. :)
 
Miros I think you know I've always tried to praise you and the mods for the job you do. It's a thankless, sometimes grueling job and you all don't get enough credit for the work that you put into this site. That's the large reason why I finally purchased a Senior Membership here.

That said, you know as well as anyone that you are never going to make everyone happy. Someone is always going to be pissy or pick fights or push the line because they can. Doesn't make it right, doesn't make it ok, but it's the way it is.

As for Dino becoming the next bad guy - he's got broad shoulders, that one. He can hold his own. You're not going to have change without conflict, you're not going to clamp down on the fluff that has been a part of QCDN for so long (right, wrong or indifferent) without growing pains and aggravation. You feel there need to be new standards so set them and stick to them and we'll all deal with the consequences, positive or negative.

As for me, I've got no problems with you or the mod staff. Never have. I'll have some frustrations here or there, and I usually talk to Dino about them when I do, so I certainly don't intend on seeking trouble or trying to be some internet rebel badass. I come here to relax, to have a good time with my friends, and, when I can, provide some helpful information and advice out there in the public forums. And I think that can be said for almost all of us.
 
Zephayra said:
I think people come here not because of information - there are plenty of sites they can go to, and I actually feel that wiki is better to answer general questions. But I do feel that the site is good for event planning, strategies and yes, meeting people or having a way to talk to people in the game without having to use MSN (some of us cant access MSN at work) or be in the game.

I understand where the mods are coming from, but I understand that people don't like being told they have to tone down joking around just because this place needs to have a better image. At the end of the day, new people are going to come and go, but those who have been here for years are always going to be around. It's not a bad idea to cater to bring in newpeople, but the place shouldn't forget its roots.
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I can understand that people don't come here for information, but I think it should be pointed out that we are actually trying to do our best to change that state of mind. I want people from the server to come here and look at the XI area and be like "Oh, so that's how so and so levelled BST" or something like that. At the same time of course they should come here to find some fun off topic banter.

I'm not forgetting the roots at all. If I were to do that, any other board would be gone except for the XI section. I'm just hoping that people will take this site a little more seriously then they have in the past.
 
Zyndara said:
Miros I think you know I've always tried to praise you and the mods for the job you do. It's a thankless, sometimes grueling job and you all don't get enough credit for the work that you put into this site. That's the large reason why I finally purchased a Senior Membership here.

That said, you know as well as anyone that you are never going to make everyone happy. Someone is always going to be pissy or pick fights or push the line because they can. Doesn't make it right, doesn't make it ok, but it's the way it is.

As for Dino becoming the next bad guy - he's got broad shoulders, that one. He can hold his own. You're not going to have change without conflict, you're not going to clamp down on the fluff that has been a part of QCDN for so long (right, wrong or indifferent) without growing pains and aggravation. You feel there need to be new standards so set them and stick to them and we'll all deal with the consequences, positive or negative.

As for me, I've got no problems with you or the mod staff. Never have. I'll have some frustrations here or there, and I usually talk to Dino about them when I do, so I certainly don't intend on seeking trouble or trying to be some internet rebel badass. I come here to relax, to have a good time with my friends, and, when I can, provide some helpful information and advice out there in the public forums. And I think that can be said for almost all of us.
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I do thank you for the kind words. I understand that Dino has the ability to be the bad guy, however, when people are saying that they are going to be making infractionable posts in the future...well...that's where I have to step in. And ultimately that's what this post is about.
 
wait, what? i go to lunch and shit hits the fan.

Mods don't have it easy. That's a no-brainer. Neither do the admins, of course.

Nobody (nooooobody) can keep everyone happy all of the time. It's just the way of things.


I'll just add the following points:

- The jamal/sixpack/Sr. Premium deal-i-o was handled expertly by yourself, Miros. It is a shame it had to come to what it did, and you actually showed a crap-ton more patience than I could have ever hoped to have shown myself. Oftentimes I'd thought you let jamal walk all over you, but in the end I think QCDN is better off without that drama.

- I do not agree with persons saying "it's people like you that keep others away from QCDN". It's not tactful, and although I realize mods aren't given stature for tact alone, I think the position shouldn't demand respect, but rather have respect come naturally and as such, the position demands its holders to have some tact about the way they handle things. It's hard to oftentimes, but saying "behavior such as this is what keeps potential new members away from QCDN" is much better than finger-pointing.

- I like this (B@W) board, I like QCDN (99% of the time), and I am honored to be a part of it to the extent that I am. But don't get me wrong, I'd abandon Bored-At-Work in a heartbeat if I felt that anyone were serious about intentionally getting him or herself banned from QCDN, and that person were a member of Bored-At-Work. I didn't think Lucki was serious, and I was fairly certain Kotsu wasn't serious about it either.

- Audino as a Moderator is a weird case in my eyes. Half the time, he's this...hard-ass in-your-face jackhole that I cannot stand to be on the same server as, and the other times he's intelligent, well-spoken, and generally a cordial guy. I will give him props for the warning infraction he gave me in the old "WHM Melee" thread, for saying something to Pchan about "this thread isn't about salvage, get the fuck out". I deserved it, and after the initial shock of "OH MY GOD, I GOT AN INFRACTION!? HOW DARE HE!?", I found that there was consistency in the application of the "don't you dare flamebait outside the Flameboard" rule, for the most part. I can understand how what he said in "Warnings. . ." could be taken a flamebait, though. That's part of that duality of his person, I suppose.

- I have zero problem with the other Moderators. At first I kept thinking "man, Miros is picking some real nobodies for the mod slots" (Aud, Morwen, and Iso notwithstanding), but honestly, I prefer it that way. The less the community knows them personally, and the less they know the community by extension, makes them more apt to be objective in their judgements.

- Give me a "Darkest of the Dark Knights" user banner; a GM even called me that very title during a Dynamis-Windurst run last week, when I fell off of the bridge by the Auction House. :awesome:
 
Miros said:
I can understand your point of view. I at least hope you understand where I am coming from though. :)
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To be honest, no, not really.

What I mean by that is, I'm confused on what brought this up (other then the thread going on in Feedback).
 
Lucki said:
To be honest, no, not really.

What I mean by that is, I'm confused on what brought this up (other then the thread going on in Feedback).
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It's a combination of a couple of things. First I have a user intentionally banned that visits this board for two weeks, then I get your post regarding asking for the banhammer, and now there's a post in the SAF saying that a user is going to be posting infractionable material. Lumping these together is enough for me to bring this topic up.
 
Glad I can still view here.

YOU'RE MY BOY BLUE. OR, RED. Miros, you're the man, pal. I honestly feel bad bringing up my problem with Audino because it gives you more to worry about. I just think he needs to relax and not be such a dick about "doing his job." Making a snide remark in a warning, which is a part of his job, not like posting in a controversial thread, is totally uncalled for. Just because he seems to dislike the B@W crew, because we "don't add value" to the site, doesn't mean he should be ostricizing us.

That being said, you're a dirty manwhore Miros, that's why all the guys in here love you.
 
Miros said:
It's a combination of a couple of things. First I have a user intentionally banned that visits this board for two weeks, then I get your post regarding asking for the banhammer, and now there's a post in the SAF saying that a user is going to be posting infractionable material. Lumping these together is enough for me to bring this topic up.
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Ok, gotcha.

I can't comment on the first or last concern (since I don't know who they are), but as for me... my comment was an (incorrect) anticipation for something that I thought might happen. And since that incident is long since past, I honestly haven't given it much thought, and reversed my feelings on what I said.

That was the only time that I have ever had any real doubts/concerns/misgivings/etc. with any modmins. Up until that was resolved, it really looked like some members had free reign of QCDN, where as others who were less popular were dealt with unfairly if they crossed similar lines. I honestly think that that incident was a major turning point (read: positive) in how a lot of people perceive this site.
 
I admit that Audino could have posted a more professional comment in Shyrra's infraction. No one is perfect but being a mod opens you up to criticism of your actions. He might do a great job behind the scenes and make good decisions most of the time (I don't know his activity so I can't say what he does or doesn't do) but most people will notice something when it's directed at them. Audino seems to have a blunt attitude and is probably why him and Jamal get along so well. Not everyone can stand that attitude and when it's used by a person of leadership it can cause some uneasiness and/or frustration for those who deal with him. It's not always a bad thing since it lets you know where you stand with him. I personally don't know Audino too well so I can't say what he really is like and what all he does around here. I know everyone has their personal reasons for disliking/liking a person and some of them can't help that due to things that he has done as a mod and not as a mod. A lot of the time it is easy to forget that mods are normal people too.
 
Stine said:
I don't really remember seeing anyone bash a mod other than Lucki's voice of unhappiness a while back. I could be wrong. I know that Tristam likes most of the mods. I can't speak for anyone else.
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This

Audino knows where he stands with me. We've talked in game a few times about it, and even had a few chats about Dragoon in between the more serious matters. People will always agree/disagree with each others' decision making skills on their in and out of game activities, but you can't always help that. I can assure you I've kept the promise I made to you Miros, and still intend to do so.

I'm not really going to look too far into this thread since as far as I can tell this really doesn't have much to do with me, but as Stine has already stated. No one has said a thing about the staff or about the job they've been doing for months now to my knowledge. Unless directly referred to, or asked to reply. This is my last post in this thread.
 
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