Level your #*($@#($& subjobs!

Stigmatas said:
3 shadows is enough to get hate pulled off of you, if you need more than three shadows then
1. your tanks sucks
2. your doing too much dmg at once
3. you havent learned your lesson from dying all the times you would have before.
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I constantly need 5 shadows to keep from taking damage and even then I don't succeed at times... and it's not the tanks fault. If I take damage, the WHM spends more MP. With my 6-8 Slug Shots and 2-3 Barrages per chain, I'm looking to pull hate at least 7-12 times. My *job* is DD. My *job* is to find that hate line and cross it just barely enough to take advantage of my shadows. When I pull hate, it means I'm doing my job - and giving a PLD a quick reprieve. If I use all 5 shadows and still take damage, I went to far.

Bottom line, if I had Utsusemi Ni, I would have 9 shadows which means I could go further and pull even more hate which means I'm doing a better job - as long as I'm not taking damage.

Stigmatas said:
Agi now doesnt play that much of a big role as a 75 taru rng..
with all my agi equipment on, standing 5.5 charecters from the mob using a Hellfire.. i still do.. 500-800 dmg.. and miss more than hit.
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Ahem, maybe you need to increase your AGI a bit more? You can get a nice boost by maxing your sub.... In my sweet spot with yellow curry my RACC is about 75% on Slug Shot, 90% with Hunter's Prelude, and I do 700-1100 Slugs and 700-800 dmg Barrages at level 63. With Squid Sushi +1, my RACC is slightly better and damage moderately worse.

Stigmatas said:
my nin sub gives me about 75 hp. to me, 75hp isnt going to help you if you have a tank who is not going to be able to take hate from you, and your getting hit for.. 250 crits and 150 reg. not including if you did one of those moves you probably gave it some TP.. lets take sickle slash for example, you'll die, IMO.
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75 HP will allow you to take 0.5 more hits when taking 150 damage. That means that 50% of the time, you will get another 3 seconds to live for that cure or voke or 2 hour if shit hits the fan. If you had Utususemi Ni , all it would take is a second and your ass is saved.

Things may be different at 75, but where I'm arguing from (60-65 range XP) - underleveled sub is gimp.
 
I don't like this thread. ;.;
/SMN = more MP, more MND. Wether you don't use the actual BPs at Kirin or wherever, more MP = more MP = more MP. Never know when you could use more in case something manages to go weird, same goes for HP.
'If you need a sub to be good at your main you're gimp' - WHAT? OK, go disable your WAR sub and see how far you get on PLD, you don't need that Double Attack or Defense Boost trait, nor extra hp/str/vit.

Argueing that having an underlevelled sub (or no sub at all) doesn't matter is just crap. You miss out on possible job traits as well (nomatter how minor), as well as a few stat boosts which may compliment your current job well. If you say the extra 1str or something of a level doesn't matter but go wearing +stat gear, then I guess it's just another exposed hypocrite..

I'm amazed at how many people settle for "good enough" on subjobs when it's really one of the easiest ways to be good altogether..
 
Mishaela said:
I don't like this thread. ;.;
/SMN = more MP, more MND. Wether you don't use the actual BPs at Kirin or wherever, more MP = more MP = more MP. Never know when you could use more in case something manages to go weird, same goes for HP.
'If you need a sub to be good at your main you're gimp' - WHAT? OK, go disable your WAR sub and see how far you get on PLD, you don't need that Double Attack or Defense Boost trait, nor extra hp/str/vit.

Argueing that having an underlevelled sub (or no sub at all) doesn't matter is just crap. You miss out on possible job traits as well (nomatter how minor), as well as a few stat boosts which may compliment your current job well. If you say the extra 1str or something of a level doesn't matter but go wearing +stat gear, then I guess it's just another exposed hypocrite..

I'm amazed at how many people settle for "good enough" on subjobs when it's really one of the easiest ways to be good altogether..
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Well if a PLD can't hold hate without a sub then he sucks, and NIN is not a tank because without a sub he would never be able to hold hate. As a SAM I did better as a tank between levels 1-30 than any NIN or PLD I partied with. WAR is the only thing that can out tank a low level SAM. Mainly that is because they are the main tanks in the game.
 
No offense but that comes off as pretty one-sided. WAR has provoke, so they should be the only(or 'main') tank? What was PLD made for then, with their superior vit/shield skill? WAR, in the long run, would plain-and-simple get stepped on without a subjob, just like every other job (except maybe three jobs, and even then it'd just be tougher than it needs to ever be).

Their evasion isn't that great, and though their def/vit is good, it's not as good as PLD. They can hold hate with Provoke, but they wouldn't have a real means to negate/remove damage in any way other than parrying and Defender. I know a few awesome WAR tanks, but every single one I've seen hadto dip into their subjob abilities to stay alive without getting cures dumped on them constantly.

And no, there's no point between "using subjob to keep hate" and "using subjob to stay alive", at least not in my opinion.

And finally...up thru Yhoator, most jobs have virtually the same def on gear and all it takes is two vit rings + power sandals or a /NIN sub to qualify as a decent tank. If you and some SAMs have been main tanking in the Yuhtunga area and such, that's probably because you get multihit WSes and PLD/NIN get stuck with that crap they learned at level 5 and tend to be out-DDed on weaponskills pretty easily. =\
 
Shaunessy said:
Well if a PLD can't hold hate without a sub then he sucks, and NIN is not a tank because without a sub he would never be able to hold hate. As a SAM I did better as a tank between levels 1-30 than any NIN or PLD I partied with. WAR is the only thing that can out tank a low level SAM. Mainly that is because they are the main tanks in the game.
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I think anyone who knows anything about this game will tell you War will by far trump all others as tank probably more like pre-37. At 37 NIN gets utsu-ni and PLD gets Flash. Both of those abilities nail down tanking effectively.

But all that is besides the point. Your sub in this game is what defines your job in the party alot of the time.
 
hmm... this topic was really about gimp subjobs, not wrong subjobs... so... back to the topic :)

I'm no fan of gimp subjobs in exp. Exp is where you need every bit of performance you can get. If you're not up to par, you need more than just a /sea to get you in parties.

Anywhere else, it's whatever goes. RDM/RNG for farming, THF/WHM for soloing. Should i mention the PLD60/WHM25s i've seen go coffer hunting? What about WHM/WAR DD'ing in skillup? Nothing wrong with those.
 
hmm... this topic was really about gimp subjobs, not wrong subjobs... so... back to the topic

Wrong subs ARE gimp subs, as they "gimp" your performance.
 
if the player is good, you can make anything work

like a nin in party i had about a year ago....nin/blm and he/she was the main tank and did a good job at it.
 
masterorion said:
if the player is good, you can make anything work

like a nin in party i had about a year ago....nin/blm and he/she was the main tank and did a good job at it.
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Thats not a wrong sub, wrong is like, war/whm or drk/blm.
 
That makes me laugh is when I'm called gimp with my WHM sub in a party (as BST), but not five minutes later someone uses an AOE and magically links a nasty ass dhalmel in bibiki bay.

Yeah, my WHM sub was too gimp for the party a few minutes ago, but you're thanking the gods I had that extra charisma to charm that IT++ mob and pull it off your sorry ass.

Poor bastard would have been dead if I subbed WAR.
 
That may be true, but god, "wrong" subs can be effective too.
DRK/WHM in exp isn't that bad at the low levels in exp. They can do things that people forget to do a lot.
RDM/WAR is an okayish melee, provided you have the gear. What else can they do at low levels besides main heal?
WHM/WAR at high levels is a good DD. Nobody really gives them a chance.
PLD/NIN is an awesome tank for dragons.

The list could go on and on...

"Wrong" as in almost completely ineffective (like WHM/MNK for the HP, or BLM/SMN for the Carby Cure) is really gimp. "Wrong" as in unusual (like what NIN/BLM once was) is not. "Wrong" as in a PLD/WHM helping an alliance cure is not either.

I could care less about how gimp someone is, as long as they do a good job regardless. PLD might not have anything else to do besides cure in an alliance, is it wrong? no.

What's "gimp" is entirely based on context. Like I said, exp is where performance belongs. Ineffective subs are worthless there. Effective ones contribute, sometimes in unusual ways.

Of course, a player who knows how to play well can make any unusual combination shine. Svina accidentally went NIN/BLM to tank for exp once, does that make him gimp? No. He played better (and had more fun) with it, he just had to adapt.

If he subbed WHM, yes, that would be gimp.

Now please, performance isn't always what matters, and please stop generalizing that anyone who doesn't follow the norm is gimp.

I've love to see DRK/NIN with Kraken and Ridill in exp somday :)
 
Claxton said:
Thats not a wrong sub, wrong is like, war/whm or drk/blm.
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Let me clarify what you mean. (i think)

You I think were talking EXP.

I will tell you DRK/BLM definately has its place. DRK/BLM with capped elemental magic works wonders in Avatar Prime fights. WAR/WHM is good for soloing and skill ups or hunting coffers.
 
Level your friggin' sub jobs!!!! If you don't you're gimp. Also level all the sub jobs you can for that main. If you don't you're gimp imo. Be versatile for your party. This isn't about "you"!!!! It's about being a part of a team.

I am sick to death of hearing bullshit excuses about why you people don't level your subs. Y'all get on Peregrines back about his idiosyncrocies (sp?). What makes y'all think you're so much better when you go around with gimped subs and then try to make up bs excuses for them.

I hated leveling blm. She was cursed from the day I got on her. I suck at blm. It still didn't stop me from leveling it to 37 and therefore not bein' gimped.

Gimme a break people.
 
Reishu said:
I've love to see DRK/NIN with Kraken and Ridill in exp somday :)
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Souleater >> Rampage FTW
 
It's the raw damage per hit that makes it insane, and don't forget how many hits there are lol.

:)
 
Reishu said:
WHM/WAR at high levels is a good DD. Nobody really gives them a chance.
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I'm sorry, but if I saw a whm meleeing in an exp party, his ass would be D2'd or at the very least booted. Maybe a warning first time, but that's a total waste of a whm.
 
Bajaratt said:
I'm sorry, but if I saw a whm meleeing in an exp party, his ass would be D2'd or at the very least booted. Maybe a warning first time, but that's a total waste of a whm.
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In a pinch, and with the right gear, you can do fine. Ask Pud if you want him to show you; he's had to close the SC because our LS was short for people to camp Ulli, he was sub war for skillup on water, and we got good exp too :)

Waste of a WHM? That was never an issue, he always did more than he needed to do. He was just contributing in an unusual way.

Besides, i'd sooner not invite or boot a hardass faster than someone who was just trying to do his best to help the party.
 
Both my thief and ranger sub are at 36 with 100 TNL , de-lvled them attempting promys, and unless some magical godlike JA/JT comes out in the update for rng or thf sub, i really see no point in re-equipping my thief/ranger and getting 100 exp just for a few more HP.

:P Gimp fo lief!


-Aly
 
Alyssan. said:
Both my thief and ranger sub are at 36 with 100 TNL , de-lvled them attempting promys, and unless some magical godlike JA/JT comes out in the update for rng or thf sub, i really see no point in re-equipping my thief/ranger and getting 100 exp just for a few more HP.

:P Gimp fo lief!


-Aly
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And if you don't like it! Power level me! Because i'm lazy like that.
 
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