Makes Sense To Me

[Georgebobbilly]

Yes, driving is a priviledge, but unless you do something wrong, nobody can tell you that you cannot drive, and speaking another language isn't a valid reason. The bigger problem is where does it stop? owning a business isn't a right. working isn't a right. riding a bus isn't a right.

and what did the blind do to lose that right. I am so far unaware of a transgression committed by every blind person.

 

[Dancingweapon]

and what did the blind do to lose that right. I am so far unaware of a transgression committed by every blind person.

Did you really just ask that?

 

[Skaw]

I swear I hope GBB realizes that this movement from Alabama is Facism in its purist form. Bullying nonenglish speakers out of the state.

 

[Raesvelg]

Did you really just ask that?

Within the context of being unable to read road signs, it's a valid question.

I'll counter Skaw's argument with the inverse: At what point do we have to label everything in multiple languages? Every street sign, warning sign, business description, and so on? How many languages do we need before we stop "discriminating"? I mean, sure, some minorities are more minor than others. That doesn't mean that they forfeit this apparent right to move to a different country without having to learn the language, right?

Slippery slope arguments work both ways, you realize.

There's no reason for any driving test to be written in language more complicated than someone who was making a significant effort to learn the language could understand.

Of course, on the flip side, we have to ask the question: What about those people who are, so to speak, fresh of the boat? Should we then deny them a chance to drive, in a country that is most emphatically not primarily designed around public transit?

It's a reasonably complicated issue, and not one you can resolve with "You're a racist" or "You're an idiot", or "You're a hippy".

These are not the things of which a reasonable debate is made.

 

[Georgebobbilly]

I swear I hope GBB realizes that this movement from Alabama is Facism in its purist form. Bullying nonenglish speakers out of the state.

Someone needs a lesson on Fascism.

the ability to drive does not grant one the ability to live... in any sense. No where is it even remotely replied that none English speakers will be removed. All that is being stated is that none English speakers will not be granted the privilege to drive.

 

[Hexx]

As much as I am for immigration reform and immigrants rights, I gotta say that being able to understand street signs is something that all people, regardless of language should know. Should driving tests be SOLELY in english? I think not, for even though english is the primary language, it is not the only one spoken here. Hell, as many of us know, even some people who read, write, and speak english have trouble comprehending what "Speed Limit 60" means on the road. Yes, changing all road signs to multiple languages would be a ludicrous task, and am against it as well. But at the same time, that doesn't mean we as a country cannot assist our fellow man in providing them a driving test in their native language.

 

[Morcheeba]

@ the OP

that is exactly what I've been hearing about the CAB drivers around here.

My other half had to take a cab to work a couple weeks back and told me later after work that the cab driver asked him to read out each street and tell him when they got to *insert random st. name* so he knew when to turn...

Not only does this man have his license (granted it was passed out at the boarder) but he's being PAID to get people to multiple destinations and safely. It's one thing to be fairly new to an area and still learning the cities streets but another thing entirely to not understand what it is you're expected to be reading.

All of this is ridiculous to even be a conversation imo. It should never be a discussion.

What ALSO bugs the living fuck out of me is our ministry of transportation provides our 'written driving tests' in any language you could possibly want. That makes NO sense to me either. People should not have this option available to them. It should be a prerequisite of all immigrants/citizens that want to drive on our streets to speak and read English practically fluently.


tsk tsk

the world goes round, the man keeps pinching his pennies

E - quick add.

If any of us were to pick up and move to any random country and try to obtain our licenses, is that country/government/ministry going to curtail to our demands because we speak an international language? Not likely.

If we move, it's our responsibility to educate ourselves to get along as best as possible in that country. The same should be expected of immigrants coming to our countries.

I can understand maybe Spanish, but that I'm sure would be debated.

We have french signs available for any text road signs. Every other language be damned. Go take a 'English as a first language' class and stfu.

 

[Raesvelg]

As much as I am for immigration reform and immigrants rights, I gotta say that being able to understand street signs is something that all people, regardless of language should know. Should driving tests be SOLELY in english? I think not, for even though english is the primary language, it is not the only one spoken here. Hell, as many of us know, even some people who read, write, and speak english have trouble comprehending what "Speed Limit 60" means on the road. Yes, changing all road signs to multiple languages would be a ludicrous task, and am against it as well. But at the same time, that doesn't mean we as a country cannot assist our fellow man in providing them a driving test in their native language.

Of course, to do so raises the question as to whether or not we are, in fact, giving a bit of a wink-and-nod, and letting someone who is unable to read road signs out onto the road, and as such is incapable of truly passing a written driving test, and as such constitutes a risk to other drivers.

In so doing, we, in effect, create a tyranny of the minority, in which the rights of the majority (safe driving) are suppressed in favor of the privileges of the minority (the ability to drive).

An obvious compromise, then, is to write a hybrid test; one in which all road signs are in English, coupled with a basic English proficiency exam, to drivers who desire to take the test in a language other than English.

In this fashion, we would ensure a basic level of safety, while affording immigrants the privilege of a driver's license without forcing them to fully master a new language, thus allowing them to take full advantage of a society that is largely built around the automobile, most places outside of select urban centers.

 

[Skaw]

I need a lesson in facism? It's political bullying. This is political bullying. Thus... this isn't a facist movement? Why? Because "this is America?"

 

[Georgebobbilly]

I need a lesson in facism? It's political bullying. This is political bullying. Thus... this isn't a facist movement? Why? Because "this is America?"

And it's political bullying because...?

oh wait, the great and mighty skaw said it so it must be true. We don't have to look at safety issues, cost issues anymore people, skaw has shown the way.

 

[Morcheeba]

Within the context of being unable to read road signs, it's a valid question.

I'll counter Skaw's argument with the inverse: At what point do we have to label everything in multiple languages? Every street sign, warning sign, business description, and so on? How many languages do we need before we stop "discriminating"? I mean, sure, some minorities are more minor than others. That doesn't mean that they forfeit this apparent right to move to a different country without having to learn the language, right?

Slippery slope arguments work both ways, you realize.

There's no reason for any driving test to be written in language more complicated than someone who was making a significant effort to learn the language could understand.

Of course, on the flip side, we have to ask the question: What about those people who are, so to speak, fresh of the boat? Should we then deny them a chance to drive, in a country that is most emphatically not primarily designed around public transit?

It's a reasonably complicated issue, and not one you can resolve with "You're a racist" or "You're an idiot", or "You're a hippy".

These are not the things of which a reasonable debate is made.

Your suggestion of an additional but minor English exam for those who opt to take the test in their language is a good one.

I picture this scenario, 'Right Lane MUST exit', and as a happy oblivious elderly indian woman comes to realize she's about to run out of lane she cuts off the driver to her left or slams on her breaks creating havoc and possibly an accident behind her because the other drivers can see that this lane ends... so there is no 'assuming' that the driver in front is turning right... there is no other options.

Yeah I'm not about to back licensed drivers that can barely speak or read a lick of the posted language.

My life is worth a hell of a lot more than the insurance they may pay, and the total $150 to get their license.

 

[Raesvelg]

I picture this scenario, 'Right Lane MUST exit', and as a happy oblivious elderly indian woman comes to realize she's about to run out of lane she cuts off the driver to her left or slams on her breaks creating havoc and possibly an accident behind her because the other drivers can see that this lane ends... so there is no 'assuming' that the driver in front is turning right... there is no other options.

Good point.

As an additional fillip on this test, hereafter referred to as the Raestopia Driving Exam, or RDE, the additional English exam would be administered electronically, with timed exposure to each individual question coupled with a maximum time allowance on each individual answer, thus ensuring that the would-be driver can read, interpret, and respond to written instructions within the necessary timeframe to avoid putting those around them at risk.

 

[Skaw]

safety issues are resolvable without barring immigrants from driving. cost? boohoo. money doesn't have to be spent on me specifically to be justified. And Raes and Morcheeba, do you two even realize how many countries accept english? but that doesn't make it any easier to learn for those that do not grow up hearring it.

 

[Raesvelg]

safety issues are resolvable without barring immigrants from driving. cost? boohoo. money doesn't have to be spent on me specifically to be justified.

They may be, provided that a certain basic level of the language is mastered.

Cost? Here again we approach the tyranny of the minority; affording additional privileges to one group in preference to another, based on what, precisely?

In some instances, insurmountable physical limitations require additional accommodation. For example, handicapped accessible buildings.

Where is the insurmountable physical limitation here? Lack of time to learn English? Hardly insurmountable. Lack of ability? Surely you're not implying that those who would immigrate to this country are somehow incapable of learning the language.

What we're left with is lack of inclination, and that's where the argument in favor of affording excessive privileges to a specific group falls flat.

 

[Valandil]

I think I better comparison for the whole blind vs. non-English speaking would be illiterate Americans who can understand/speak English just fine vs. non-English speaking foreign nationals. Should we give licenses to people who can't read at all?

 

[Georgebobbilly]

safety issues are resolvable without barring immigrants from driving. cost? boohoo. money doesn't have to be spent on me specifically to be justified.

Skaw, the issue isn't about immigrants. it's about people not speaking the language that everything in this country, including it's road signs, are written in.


The rest of your post is irrelevant as it's a logical fallacy.

 

[Skaw]

What additional priviledges? redoing all sign in to universal symbols is beneficial to all people. you'll be able to recognize it as easily as the russian immigrant behind you.

 

[Morcheeba]

Yea Skaw, it's not that we would be banning immigrants of getting their licenses, it's with any earned privilage you may need to meet certain requirements.

And if immigrants want to share the roads with the rest of us, they need to meet certain requirements. If that means learning the language well enough to pass a written exam, then that's too bad.

If they refuse, they're SOL. If we curtail to every whining immigrant demanding different treatment we'll end up very sorry in the end.

Like the indian man who honestly went to court to fight a ticket for his failing to wear a motorcycle helmet. He wanted special treatment because of his religion, he had to wear a turban and whined all the way to court until he lost.

My opinion, he wants the luxury to enjoy his motorcycle ...he can do so, as long as he follows our road rules. Imagine he couldn't read the signs on the road as well as not wanting to wear a helmet. GTFO my roads you spoiled bitch.

In all honestly, anyone with their license should be somewhat educated, knowledgeable of our road rules, as well as their vehicle (enter the people who drive SUVS and think they're 2 cars wide), as well as the road signs.

BTW - there's no way we could introduce a universal signage to replace all text found on the roads. No way. That's unrealistic.

With all the 'risks' on the road as it is, there needs to be more stringent rules in place to weed out and deny the rejects from getting behind the wheel. This is just one way to possibly cut down on a lot of risks.

 

[Duddits]

Should we give licenses to people who can't read at all?

I think the majority of people would say NO. You still have to pass a test that you have to read regardless what language its in.

 

[Miros]

Yes, driving is a priviledge, but unless you do something wrong, nobody can tell you that you cannot drive, and speaking another language isn't a valid reason. The bigger problem is where does it stop? owning a business isn't a right. working isn't a right. riding a bus isn't a right.

Interesting to note, after looking through the IRS website for a little bit they only offer form 1040 in English. If that's the case, how would this knowledge affect an argument?