Merit Parties

[Lavi]

To be honest, it's come to the point where I think the only way to get exp anymore is to either level the "in" jobs or make your own parties. Most people in end game have multiple jobs and although I am sure they would prefer playing one job over the other, the need or rather the desire for other more specific jobs that will out perform your preferred job is far greater. This isn't exactly what you want, but if you have an alternative job which is more desireable, then I'd suggest getting merits on that and using the merits for the job you prefer (merits can be earned on one job and used towards another as long as both jobs are 75 or have same skills you plan on meriting).

Although, not everyone has multiple jobs leveled to do the task, maybe you might consider leveling a 2nd job among the desired jobs. I know it's a lot of work just to get some merits, but if you already had the intention to level one of the desired jobs in the future, you might as well make use of the time you have now and do it because getting merits on jobs other than BRD, RDM, MNK, WAR, and NIN is probably going to be slow for invites, almost to the point of insanity.

 

[DarkMagnus]

Its not a exp pt but you can still get an idea of Gregedor overall damage after 4 fights. These mobs do have more hp , but its the only saved log I have with a sam.

jobs were:

Valk - drk
Dillon - pld
DarkM - war
Greg - sam



Oops nvm Just found another log with sam(silversurfer). Mobs were sea puks and imps.

Jobs:

War - Dark
drk - Dj
silver - sam
lyrai - nin

 

[Peregrine]

I'd suggest getting merits on that and using the merits for the job you prefer...maybe you might consider leveling a 2nd job among the desired jobs.

This is the sad reality that SE needs to fix before it's too late. The game has already lost so much diversity already. I agree with the statement, but I hate the statement. I'm leveling warrior because thief meriting thief just does not work. I have to take 4 friends out and screw around for 5-6k an hour in the mire if I want a buffer on thief. Putting the flag up is not realistic.

People shouldn't have to level X job to do X when X is as general as "get experience points." If you want to stun Diabolos, fine. Go dark knights. But "get xp"? We're losing diversity when people give up and just level what's most efficient, and when everyone plays the same thing doing the same thing every time they do it...that's not as fun. The generic scene will work its way from xp to other places that people still consider "fun" like endgame. How many endgamers are leveling summoner for THAT reason now. Tons. Endgame is in danger of what XP has already become. Generic.

 

[K. Ishitar]

Makes you really wonder if the subjob ability is too strong, doesn't it? At least for the specific few

 

[Pompidou]

The only way to get diversity back into XI is to kill utsusemi and dual weild when subbed. Not slightly nerf- but kill. Kill as in a whm casting blm nukes in an exp pt killed.

 

[Stouter]

The only way to get diversity back into XI is to kill utsusemi and dual weild when subbed. Not slightly nerf- but kill. Kill as in a whm casting blm nukes in an exp pt killed.

So you would have 4 ninjas, brd, whm(rdm) parties only for merits, no other melee allowed?

 

[Gregedor]

:shok:

I would challenge virtually ANY DD on this server to out TP a SAM, Gregedor in particular. I partied with him for 75 levels, and I don't think any but the best DDs on Quetz could weaponskill 2-3 times per fight for the amount of damage he lands with Kasha and Gekko. Yes, Dual Wield is brokenly good, but at the same time consider the amout of TP+ items and job traits a SAM has at lv 75, not to mention the added effects each one of their weaponskills deals to the mob.

lol Thanks for the vote of confidence Cel.

 

[Gregedor]

Its not a exp pt but you can still get an idea of Gregedor overall damage after 4 fights. These mobs do have more hp , but its the only saved log I have with a sam.

jobs were:

Valk - drk
Dillon - pld
DarkM - war
Greg - sam

Lol I remember that. That was a while ago now =P

Thanks for making me look good btw.

Edit: You can see what Bajaratt is talking about though in these short logs. Half of my dmg is DoT from meleeing and half is WS dmg. MNK and WAR have higher melee dmg than I do and depending on how many hits land in Asuran/Rampage their WS can be a little higher to a lot lower. I'd never pretend to out DD a MNK, but I can hang pretty decently with the other DD out there. (Unless we're talking Juggernaut/Ridill, Juggernaut/Kraken stacked people, but I have never had a pt with anyone like that) Even on an Imp two WS isn't unreasonable and it's kind of SAM's saving grace that they do get so much TP. Especially since I've gotten Meditate recast merits. Making on the fly chains also give a boost that won't show in the logs. Getting that SC for another 100-1k dmg (depending upon the element) is nothing to scoff at.

While I'm going to be obviously biased, I think the case on the game is more that people think they just CANNOT party without NIN,WAR,MNK in the party. Whereas I think if you did some in depth stats you'll find that the other jobs stack up fairly well. I still remember that party with Limi, Meta, a few others where we had NIN, DRG, DRG, SAM, MNK, WHM and hit a chain 48. And not everyone was 75. I mean DRG is hardly on the "it list" and we racked in my best xp ever. It can be done, I think the mindset people have is just defeatest.

 

[Pompidou]

So you would have 4 ninjas, brd, whm(rdm) parties only for merits, no other melee allowed?

Not at all - in the event SE killed utsusemi and dual weild when subbed, and noticed that every single melee was a ninja - they'd kill ninja too. I didn't want to propose killing ninja as it'd look bad, but with the way the XI community thinks (exactly as you hypothesized), ninjas would go the way of the ranger. You have to figure ranger was nerfed because it was the only melee job around really - the squeeky wheel gets the grease. If ninja sub got adjusted and people did in fact flock to the only remaining imbalance, SE would crush it in no time, and then we'd have our balance.

 

[Stouter]

Not at all - in the event SE killed utsusemi and dual weild when subbed, and noticed that every single melee was a ninja - they'd kill ninja too. I didn't want to propose killing ninja as it'd look bad, but with the way the XI community thinks (exactly as you hypothesized), ninjas would go the way of the ranger. You have to figure ranger was nerfed because it was the only melee job around really - the squeeky wheel gets the grease. If ninja sub got adjusted and people did in fact flock to the only remaining imbalance, SE would crush it in no time, and then we'd have our balance.

Wtf is this balance everyone talks about? Is it when every job is equal in every task, because that's what all the people that talk like you seem to be after. X job is better at doing Y than other jobs, it needs to be nerfed. Screw jobs specializing in one thing or another. It's not fair that whm has a higher club skill than me, they need to be nerfed. It's not fair that drg gets to summon a wyvern but brd doesn't, they need to be nerfed.

You can say that every job is better at something than any other job, if you want balance you need to take away 17 jobs.

Rng was nerfed because it was too fun. Rangers could put up big numbers fast with a brd in the party. Monks put up big damage in KRT with a brd in the party. Nin/war and War/nin put up heavy DoT against T-VT mobs with a brd in the party. I think the commonality in all of these is obvious, and SE just needs to nerf all physical damage.

 

[Skaw]

Make Utsusemi work like regular Blink. Everyone* wins.

*Not Ninjas.

 

[Stouter]

in the event SE killed utsusemi and dual weild when subbed

Just caught this, Dual Wield is pretty gimp when subbed already. /War Double Attack > Dual Wield II. You get slightly less hits, for a whole lot more TP. DW doesn't start to get powerful til DW3, and it's not overpowered til end game with DW enhancement/haste build, except when offhanding a Ridill or something unbalanced on its own.

 

[K. Ishitar]

Actually nin would win as a main since their evasion and parrying is nice which determines when blink shadows activate.

Only job with it as a sub would win would be thf of course.

But that's me^^;

 

[Hamlett]

Stouter is correct about the DW stuff, especially when you consider the recent tp-floor lowering. On another note, people shouldn't complain about how their job isn't put into merits as often. Every job (Even Drk) has their place. War and Mnk are ridiculously powerful in exp, we know. But throw one of them at a Wyrm, Kirin, or nearly any powerful HNM and they'll get chewed up fast (with the exclusion of wars on Fafnir, which is just beastly). Jobs like Drg, Drk, Sam, and Especially smn are weaker in exp (although the degree of weakness is often overplayed); said jobs are much more powerful on things that -require- one big burst of damage. I've seen a drg do large amounts of completely hateless damage on Jormungand. I'm sure most of you have heard of the drks with kraken clubs that chop off huge amounts of HP in a matter of seconds. And if you don't know what smns are good for, watch anyone fight a greater Wyrm.

Summarized: It all evens out.

Side Note: I do not condone letting drg melee jorm, the tp given to a wyrm by meleeing them is ridiculous, and comes back to bite you in the form of a wing attack to the face.

 

[Tagrineth]

Wtf is this balance everyone talks about? Is it when every job is equal in every task, because that's what all the people that talk like you seem to be after. X job is better at doing Y than other jobs, it needs to be nerfed. Screw jobs specializing in one thing or another. It's not fair that whm has a higher club skill than me, they need to be nerfed. It's not fair that drg gets to summon a wyvern but brd doesn't, they need to be nerfed.

You can say that every job is better at something than any other job, if you want balance you need to take away 17 jobs.

Rng was nerfed because it was too fun. Rangers could put up big numbers fast with a brd in the party. Monks put up big damage in KRT with a brd in the party. Nin/war and War/nin put up heavy DoT against T-VT mobs with a brd in the party. I think the commonality in all of these is obvious, and SE just needs to nerf all physical damage.

No, the problem isn't that X job is better at doing Y than other jobs, the problem is that the game has 9~10 jobs that "deal damage" and only 2-3 of them are readily accepted for merit parties. The rest are largely ignored/passed up in favour of those 2-3 - even if some members of "the rest" are vastly better equipped and dramatically more skilled than people who just 'happen' to be part of those glorified 2-3 jobs... and don't even get me started on the utter bullshit DRG stigma, which is now doubly meaningless with the preferred merit mobs being almost all weak to piercing damage.

And Ranger was nerfed because its attack and accuracy did not get adjusted according to mob level. Period. A melee can put on an ungodly amount of accuracy, AND use lolsushi, and still have a terrifyingly bad hit rate vs. anything about 4-5 levels into the IT range. A Ranger, prenerf, could get more ranged accuracy, without even needing Sushi because assuming equal evasion, an IT mob wouldn't be any harder to hit than an EM. That is why Arrowburn was so successful - it could pull mighty strong mobs and tear them down far too easily. On top of that, Ranger was the uncontested king of HNM/God DD. No other job could even come close. Even now, RNG is very powerful against HNM/Gods compared to physical melee because /ra doesn't get hurt as badly as regular attacking.

Oh, and 10k/hr is possible without a bard if the party is well equipped. Just a side note.

 

[TheOsyris]

SAM damage per hit is um. . .actually great. to those that say it is not are fools. Cannon pt i use Haste gear, can get like +20%. my GKT does 140-220 per hit, and the crits are high 200's. how is this not great? i am forced to use /NIN because of the fast fast TP and WS spam. . . 3WS per battle is easy when you meditate lol. i get 160TP from med. but those mobs dont live long enough for it. if i can squeeze it in i go /WAR which is just nuts. Ushi ftw 600-800 Gekkos, and some breaking 1200 when DA kicks. SAM is haste gear with BRD in PT looks like a Fawkin 2 handed KC. so 140-220 per hit + 600-1200 Ws is a beast in my opinion.

 

[Kire]

SAM damage per hit is um. . .actually great. to those that say it is not are fools. Cannon pt i use Haste gear, can get like +20%. my GKT does 140-220 per hit, and the crits are high 200's. how is this not great? i am forced to use /NIN because of the fast fast TP and WS spam. . . 3WS per battle is easy when you meditate lol. i get 160TP from med. but those mobs dont live long enough for it. if i can squeeze it in i go /WAR which is just nuts. Ushi ftw 600-800 Gekkos, and some breaking 1200 when DA kicks. SAM is haste gear with BRD in PT looks like a Fawkin 2 handed KC. so 140-220 per hit + 600-1200 Ws is a beast in my opinion.

140 a hit when a WAR/NIN can do 100 a hit and thats only 1 swing they can have 1-6 at that damage or 1-32 at 30 damage
and WS for 1k normaly lol

 

[Stouter]

SAM damage per hit is um. . .actually great. to those that say it is not are fools. Cannon pt i use Haste gear, can get like +20%. my GKT does 140-220 per hit, and the crits are high 200's. how is this not great? i am forced to use /NIN because of the fast fast TP and WS spam.

In the time you get that one 200 damage swing in a ninja gets 2 rounds in, for 4 hits, 40-90 damage each or so, crits around 110 each. Ninja can sub war for the double attack and berserk, while still not taking damage. Fighting imps you'll go a lot of fights without being able to ws, and nin will blow away any job except mnk in DoT because of this on imps.

the problem is that the game has 9~10 jobs that "deal damage" and only 2-3 of them are readily accepted for merit parties.

Merit cannons are a series of 20 second fights, in which you deal damage fast and don't get hit. That's what nin/mnk/war excel at, you take it away, and the job is trash. You're just a bitter loldrg that's angry because you're not being picked for what you want to do because another job can do it better.

If you want to take hits like a pld, level pld.
If you want to heal people like a whm, level whm.
If you want to DD in cannons and tank like a nin, level nin.
If you want to buff people like a brd, level brd.

Don't just bitch about how other jobs are better at something than you, because your job is better than theirs at something. If you don't like your job's strengths, then why the hell are you playing it?

Oh, and 10k/hr is possible without a bard if the party is well equipped. Just a side note.

And a well equipped party with a good bard could approach 20k/hr before ToAU came out.

 

[ceram]

Merit cannons are a series of 20 second fights, in which you deal damage fast and don't get hit. That's what nin/mnk/war excel at, you take it away, and the job is trash. [/B]

I don't speak english that well but are you trying to say that monk war and nin jobs are trash and no use in game?
please light my lantern

 

[Stouter]

I don't speak english that well but are you trying to say that monk war and nin jobs are trash and no use in game?
please light my lantern

I'm saying if you take away their fast damage, then the jobs will become trash, and of little use for anything in game.