Merit Parties

[Stouter]

all jobs excluding PUP and DRG have some area they are needed or excel in at end game.

All jobs have some area that they are needed or excel at in exp.

One tactic that works in end game doesn't work for all end game. Exp shouldn't be any different.

Really, so you couldn't, let's say, throw a dozen blms at 90% of end game mobs and take them down easy? Or you couldn't set up a tank party for 90% of end game that's Pld Pld Rdm Whm/Smn Whm/Smn Brd?

If everyone excels in different exp mobs, that doesn't make them all the same. But if it did, would it matter?

If drk's excelled at birds, you would have drk cannons vs birds, if sams excelled at imps, you would have sam cannons vs imps. You know what would be the commonality in all the parties? A haster/healer and a bard. So no, it wouldn't matter if each job excelled vs some mobs, even though they already do.

Have you ever seen a ninja tank for a bones party? Have you ever seen a pld tank for a goobue party? Jobs already have weakness and strengths vs certain mobs. Let me repeat what I said earlier, If you don't like your job's strengths, then why the hell are you playing it?

 

[K. Ishitar]

All jobs have some area that they are needed or excel at in exp.

Have you ever seen a ninja tank for a bones party? Have you ever seen a pld tank for a goobue party? Jobs already have weakness and strengths vs certain mobs. Let me repeat what I said earlier, If you don't like your job's strengths, then why the hell are you playing it?

Expanding on nin, there are some mob families nin can't tank because of fast attack speed ie coeurl, raptors, mandies,etc. they attack too fast.

Anyways what are jobs weak against?

Pld- Goobue

Nin-Bones

 

[Blazeoffury]

Expanding on nin, there are some mob families nin can't tank because of fast attack speed ie coeurl, raptors, mandies,etc. they attack too fast.

Anyways what are jobs weak against?

Pld- Goobue

Nin-Bones

Eh.... I seemed to excel on those mobs the best, I think raptors are my favorite mobs to tank as a ninja...

 

[Brin]

Most ptys now a days that i'm in usually go for around 7k - 10k exp per hour. If there is no compatition from other pullers from other ptys, then its usually around 8k - 10k easy. And this is w/o a big majority of pty members from what is known as the 'common merit pty'. Now, if they are able to pull off even more exp per hour than that, then thats find and dandy. I'm just as happy with my 7k - 10k exp per hour.

 

[Stouter]

Ninja rocks tanking mobs that die fast. Raptors and Coeurls have low hp, which means you are a whole lot less likely to find your shadows down with no recasts up. Mandies are a joke to tank in the jungles, they hit so damn light that a ninja can easily tank them without utsu; I tanked them as rng/war with bloody bolts. End game mandies are different, they have extra martial arts traits and hit a whole lot faster.

Sea Puks hit a whole lot faster than anyone realizes too and have pretty good accuracy. If you looked at that alone you would think ninja would make a terrible tank for them.

 

[Blazeoffury]

In the end it realy just comes down to the skill of the player and how much time and work the said person has put into his job.

 

[Brin]

In the end it realy just comes down to the skill of the player and how much time and work the said person has put into his job.

QFT...

 

[Gregedor]

wow... if you cannon and cannot keep both bllads up you need to quit. That statements proves that you fail on the easiest job in the game.

Nice Nugo! lol

 

[Eulore]

Drauge = Sam/War
Ritera = War/Nin
Eulore = Nin/War
Diasthegreat = lolrdmelee
Kanachin = Blm

Drauge has some really good gear though, and (I think) the merits to match.

 

[neophytal]

Drauge = Sam/War
Ritera = War/Nin
Eulore = Nin/War
Diasthegreat = lolrdmelee
Kanachin = Blm

Drauge has some really good gear though, and (I think) the merits to match.

whatcha tryin to say by posting this? lol not sure what ur getting at

 

[Kire]

whatcha tryin to say by posting this? lol not sure what ur getting at

war>sam DD?

 

[Skaw]

If they fixed two handed weapon damage formula, I'd say you'd be about even, as his melee and weaponskill damage figures would be higher. Also, whats with his critical rate? That's pitifully low. Even without gear and merits, he should still be doing more than that.

war>sam DD?

If you took the time to read instead of make a stupid post, you'd see the SAM actually outdamaged the WAR slightly.

 

[neophytal]

war>sam DD?

in that parse,

nin > sam > war


so not sure what ur saying lol

 

[Gregedor]

Really, so you couldn't, let's say, throw a dozen blms at 90% of end game mobs and take them down easy?

You can do that anytime, not just endgame.

Or you couldn't set up a tank party for 90% of end game that's Pld Pld Rdm Whm/Smn Whm/Smn Brd?

Yes that's the standard, but if nobody takes that PLD to go xp then what good does it do you since he'll be 73 in no time.

if sams excelled at imps, you would have sam cannons vs imps.

SAM gets no dmg boost or reduction as do most jobs and Imps are intimidated by Demon Killer/Warding Circle. A SAM/THF can also knock off 50% on a Imp with 1 WS. So actually SAM are good on imps, but you still don't find them on the 'it list'.

Have you ever seen a ninja tank for a bones party?

And neither do PLD or even WARs. Basically no actual tank job tanks in those pts, a MNK/NIN does.

Let me repeat what I said earlier, If you don't like your job's strengths, then why the hell are you playing it?

The problem isn't not liking one's job. The problem is that to get more buffer or merits at 75 not every job is wanted. This forces you to spend hours just getting a party or forces you to put weeks and weeks and millions into making a new 75 job just so you can use it to benefit your other job that you actually want to play. Personally, that's a dumb way to design a game especially when, yes I said it, my SAM is actually wanted up in sky.

In the end it realy just comes down to the skill of the player and how much time and work the said person has put into his job.

I wholeheartedly agree. Even with all the advantages that MNK, WAR, NIN have if they can't play well or aren't equipped well they will fail. The problem is when you have 20 people seeking that you don't know, you're going to go with what you know works, and those jobs just always seem to work.

lol, last part. Finally on Eulore's post of the parser results, look at Drauge's crit rate. That suggests to me that he still has the 5% crit merits to go and could get the 6% crit GKT. I'm at around 4% base crit rate which is what he had in those results. That would certainly put him a few percentage points up on Ritera. (No offense to him/her) I certainly like seeing that, yes, you can keep up as a SAM. Change some of those SC to more Lvl2 or Lvl3 chains and yeah, I could see some nice numbers happening. :bb:

 

[DarkMagnus]

2 ninjas and 2 wars. Can you guess which was which. BTW one of the ninjas used blade:metsu several times.

 

[Gregedor]

BTW guys, just wanted to say that this has been a great thread so far. Lot's of good discussion going on here.

 

[Stouter]

SAM gets no dmg boost or reduction as do most jobs and Imps are intimidated by Demon Killer/Warding Circle. A SAM/THF can also knock off 50% on a Imp with 1 WS. So actually SAM are good on imps, but you still don't find them on the 'it list'.


And neither do PLD or even WARs. Basically no actual tank job tanks in those pts, a MNK/NIN does.

The reason you don't see sam on imps is because sam = ws, and amnesia = no ws or ja (meditate) but that's a side note, it was a hypothetical if sam was great vs imps.

Mnk/nin doesn't tank bones for the same reason nin doesn't tank bones. Their Aoe rapes shadows while still doing damage. Pld tanks bones just fine, but aren't cannon material against them.

 

[Kire]

The reason you don't see sam on imps is because sam = ws, and amnesia = no ws or ja (meditate) but that's a side note, it was a hypothetical if sam was great vs imps.

Mnk/nin doesn't tank bones for the same reason nin doesn't tank bones. Their Aoe rapes shadows while still doing damage. Pld tanks bones just fine, but aren't cannon material against them.

pld/war with staff owns bones

 

[Lavi]

All jobs have some area that they are needed or excel at in exp.

Really? So why aren't there all DRG parties? SAM parties? Etc. Or could it be perhaps that monk and warrior will excel even when they have the disadvantage? Even without piercing and only blunt weapons, a decent monk will still outdamage a decent DRG on weak to piercing mobs. Is that fair? Or just stupid?

Really, so you couldn't, let's say, throw a dozen blms at 90% of end game mobs and take them down easy? Or you couldn't set up a tank party for 90% of end game that's Pld Pld Rdm Whm/Smn Whm/Smn Brd?

Show me a LS that does everything as all BLMs besides the gil sellers. You don't find many if any at all. See, what normally happens is shells work around the player base they have to include everyone. Key word: Include. For experience we have the opposite word or antonym: exclude. There are some shells which will only include certain jobs, but even without those shells, there will be others that do include all jobs. They accept your job. In experience party, certain jobs are excluded more than they should be to the point of absurdity. Why? Because they have no worth, no defining strength that makes them superior at 75. It all comes down the maximum damage and when a couple particular jobs are outdamaging all other jobs in every single exp scenario, it's a little one-sided.

If drk's excelled at birds, you would have drk cannons vs birds, if sams excelled at imps, you would have sam cannons vs imps. You know what would be the commonality in all the parties? A haster/healer and a bard. So no, it wouldn't matter if each job excelled vs some mobs, even though they already do.

The idea is to give the player base options, something to compete against the cannons. If it continues at this rate, the way it is now, I guarantee a majority of people will level 1 of those "in" jobs. Where is the diversity in that? Suddenly we have a server full of monks, warriors and bards all looking to merit, then the game will be "perfect". We can all have the perfect parties with superior experience. Or we can try something, anything even if it means nerfing the jobs to diversify the game. And if it does continue on this trend, I don't see how SE can ignore it unless the job fixes in the near future do something exceptional for two-handed weapons enough to bring them back into style.

Have you ever seen a ninja tank for a bones party? Have you ever seen a pld tank for a goobue party? Jobs already have weakness and strengths vs certain mobs. Let me repeat what I said earlier, If you don't like your job's strengths, then why the hell are you playing it?

Have you ever seen a MNK ever be deficient in any party situation? A warrior maybe on bones, but even then that's one case. Same with NIN. And for the most part, I have never seen a good NIN not be able to tank anything a PLD could (the times they don't, no one experiences on those particular mobs anyways). Not that all this matters, the less in demand jobs still don't perform any better in 99% of those situations than the in demand counterparts (Bones party can be done too).

The only reason it has become such a problem is because of their attack speed. MNK, WAR, and NIN have the fastest melee attack speeds in the game because of DW and MA. The one handed weapons do more damage per round than a double handed weapon with double the base damage and that's without considering the delay shortening traits. If all jobs had a similar ability on double handed weapons, they would be able to compete fairly, but they don't. Or it might be possible to compete if they were to sub NIN, but none of the other jobs have a decent skill rating in any single handed weapons (C or less).

You argue about diversity and giving the jobs some advancement will make the jobs all the same. But I want to know how you think the game is any different now? Most parties out there are cannon. When I level warrior, a majority of the time, I am in a cannon. No one invites me for a SC. They see me, another WAR or maybe a MNK and go wild. Where is the diversity in that? You say, changing the game will take away the diversity, I say it's already gone. The moment people realized MNK, WAR and NIN will produce the huge numbers is the moment parties stopped being unique and became some arbitrary formula.

 

[Stouter]

Really? So why aren't there all DRG parties? SAM parties? Etc. Or could it be perhaps that monk and warrior will excel even when they have the disadvantage? Even without piercing and only blunt weapons, a decent monk will still outdamage a decent DRG on weak to piercing mobs. Is that fair? Or just stupid?

On T-VT cannon mobs yes, in lufaise DRG >>> Mnk.

Yes the damage difference is imbalanced, and 2H weapons get the short end of the stick. But the answer isn't nerfing 1H weapons. If one job is being overplayed, it typically means it's fun, meaning people are enjoying the game, and will continue to pay their 12.95 each month. Nerfing makes the job less fun, people less likely to pay their 12.95 each month. Why not just say that 2H weapons need a fix, especially on ws's?