MMA

Great fights, I was rooting for Alves but GSP dominated the fight, Thiago has one hell of a future though. Alves needs to work on adjusting the game plan, his favorite attack is the leg kicks, and each time he leg kicked, GSP caught him and scored a takedown, 10 takedowns in all, im stunned Alves made it through the entire fight.

Hendo Vs. Bisping, this fight was sick. Hendo stalked bisping who kept backpedaling the whole fight and that knockout was fucking brutal. Silva Vs Henderson Part 2 CAN I HAS IT!?

Paulo Thiago and Fitch was a pretty boring fight, didnt have much to say.

Lesnar Vs. Mir, wow rape. Lesnar is an animal, i just dont like how the heavyweight class alows such a huge buffer between weight, once Lesnar had Mir on the ground there was nothing he could do, he had a good 20-25 pounds on Mir and he just fucked him up.
 
Airou said:
Great fights, I was rooting for Alves but GSP dominated the fight, Thiago has one hell of a future though. Alves needs to work on adjusting the game plan, his favorite attack is the leg kicks, and each time he leg kicked, GSP caught him and scored a takedown, 10 takedowns in all, im stunned Alves made it through the entire fight.
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Yea I am quite proud of GSP. I was worried about Alves dominating and setting the pace for this fight. GSP stepped up and he fully defended that title. Confident he would dominate the ground game, Alves is still a force in stand up and I was thinking.. 3 options, GSP either needs to submit him, Alves will knock him the hell out or it would go to decision. Those were the only 3 options I'm confident would be turn outs.

Airou said:
Hendo Vs. Bisping, this fight was sick. Hendo stalked bisping who kept backpedaling the whole fight and that knockout was fucking brutal.
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I like Bisping, he shit talks a lot by I genuinly think it's all for show. To get into his opponents heads. Needless to say that knock was fucking gorgeous.


Airou said:
Lesnar Vs. Mir, wow rape. Lesnar is an animal, i just dont like how the heavyweight class alows such a huge buffer between weight, once Lesnar had Mir on the ground there was nothing he could do, he had a good 20-25 pounds on Mir and he just fucked him up.
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I think he should be removed from UFC. Had he showed some versatility like most UFC fighters strive for and stood up with Mir the outcome would have probably been much different. Lesnar is still imo a sad fucking excuse for a UFC fighter. Sorry but the man uses his fucking dead weight to blanket his opponents. Yeah, he smothered Mir and Mir was left helpless trapped under Lesnars flab. Sucked for him. It's just not going to be a fair match up until they get Kongo in against him.

I've come to the point where I loathe Lesnar in the UFC. I have no clue how he was in the wrestling industry but until he proves himself (hell they're sending Kimbo through the trials) he'll be no more than a fucking lucky mammoth monster.

Fighters have their strengths and weaknesses. GSP is all around and versatile but certainly a strong wrestler. Alves, obviously his strength being stand up and weakness on the floor.

Lesnar's only strength is his size and power. So he's a brute. This reminds me sadly of Tim Silvia and I was happier than a pig in shit to see him start getting his ass handed to him. Why, his fights were boring and he's sloppy.
 
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Morcheeba said:
I think he should be removed from UFC. Had he showed some versatility like most UFC fighters strive for and stood up with Mir the outcome would have probably been much different. Lesnar is still imo a sad fucking excuse for a UFC fighter. Sorry but the man uses his fucking dead weight to blanket his opponents. Yeah, he smothered Mir and Mir was left helpless trapped under Lesnars flab. Sucked for him. It's just not going to be a fair match up until they get Kongo in against him.

I've come to the point where I loathe Lesnar in the UFC. I have no clue how he was in the wrestling industry but until he proves himself (hell they're sending Kimbo through the trials) he'll be no more than a fucking lucky mammoth monster.

Lesnar's only strength is his size and power. So he's a brute. This reminds me sadly of Tim Silvia and I was happier than a pig in shit to see him start getting his ass handed to him. Why, his fights were boring and he's sloppy.
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i have to say i agree with morch on this. lesnar's size is what gave him that title. its seems to me they are making him big way to fast. just like hey did in the WWE. the guy has only fought about 5 fights before clinching the UFC title. That seem a bit quick to me unless they are just going off his popularity from being a pro wrestler. hell why not have goldberg join the ufc so he can do the same thing? (im not serious about that)

the rest of these guys pay their dues before even getting title shots. it almost seems like they walked brock right up to it.
 
its basically how he got the title from coture. coture was handling lesner easily. coture is still the best fighter, of the two, by a large margin. but, when you have a guy double your weight on top of you giving you the sledgehammer, you have 2 choices. either, cover up and not get hit, or take the heavy hits and try to get out. when lesner is on top of you, its too much of a risk to not cover up for the mostpart.
 
masterorion said:
its basically how he got the title from coture. coture was handling lesner easily. coture is still the best fighter, of the two, by a large margin. but, when you have a guy double your weight on top of you giving you the sledgehammer, you have 2 choices. either, cover up and not get hit, or take the heavy hits and try to get out. when lesner is on top of you, its too much of a risk to not cover up for the mostpart.
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Precisely, he should have never got a shot at the belt.

I realize that there is no weight class above heavyweight... but perhaps they should start considering adding one if they want to let these absolutely ridiculous massive men into UFC. To continue with fighters like Brock, unseasoned, barely skilled and just over all concrete barriers of men into UFC they can't think the fans are going to enjoy seeing such unevenly matched fights occur for much longer. We saw plain and simple last night what that fight caused with a large number of fans in the crowd. Dean should have stood them up.
 
GSP is the best wrestler in the UFC and after last night I think he showed that. I was happy that he retained his title.

Fuck Lesnar. He went into that fight at around 300 and Mir went in at around 250. How the fuck is that fair at all? He showed no class after that fight and dissed the UFC's biggest contributer(Budweiser).

Also

http://mmajunkie.com/news/15488/dan...ht-in-the-ufc-brock-lesnar-fight-imminent.mma

Holding my breath on this, but if it does come true well the UFC HW division is over.
 
lesnar is a joke imo. he did the only thing he knows how to do... lay on someone. now granted some of those shots were very good. but if i remember right the ref warned him like 4 times to work or he would stand it up but he never stood it up. hendo knocked the fuck outta bisping... that fight made the whole night good for me even with mir losing.
 
I know everyones hating on Lesnar and all that, but lets think about it for a minute. We have to give him the benefit of the doubt, most of us are sounding like haters right now. Hes doing what hes allowed to do within the rules the UFC gave him. We dont know for sure if he can still wrestle, or his MMA training is effective because he hasnt had to use it.

Lets face it, if someone tells you, "Hey, if you put all your weight on this guy you will guarantee a win" Why wouldnt you do that? Why would he try to submit someone or get all technical if he doesnt have to?

Also, no one here is getting on Thiago Alves are they? He goes into fights at or close to 200 lbs, in a 170 Weight class and no one says anything? Its part of the game, so Lesnar being huge and what not is encouraged by the UFC.

Also, saying his win was cheap and what not might be true, but you could also say Mir's first win against him was cheap too, he was getting his ass kicked and caught Lesnar making a rookie mistake and made him tap. Then Mir ran his mouth ever since and Brock fucked him up, I think Lesnar had every right to act like a dick after he won that fight, this time atleast.
 
Airou said:
I know everyones hating on Lesnar and all that, but lets think about it for a minute. We have to give him the benefit of the doubt, most of us are sounding like haters right now. Hes doing what hes allowed to do within the rules the UFC gave him. We dont know for sure if he can still wrestle, or his MMA training is effective because he hasnt had to use it.

Lets face it, if someone tells you, "Hey, if you put all your weight on this guy you will guarantee a win" Why wouldnt you do that? Why would he try to submit someone or get all technical if he doesnt have to?

Also, no one here is getting on Thiago Alves are they? He goes into fights at or close to 200 lbs, in a 170 Weight class and no one says anything? Its part of the game, so Lesnar being huge and what not is encouraged by the UFC.

Also, saying his win was cheap and what not might be true, but you could also say Mir's first win against him was cheap too, he was getting his ass kicked and caught Lesnar making a rookie mistake and made him tap. Then Mir ran his mouth ever since and Brock fucked him up, I think Lesnar had every right to act like a dick after he won that fight, this time atleast.
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Generally I would agree with you. However, Couture can pin someone against the cage with his skills in Greco Roman Wrestling, that's a skill. Alves can out strike someone and knock them out with his stand up, that's a skill. Whether or not they had to work hard to achieve such skills is not the question either... it may be very natural for Alves just like Wrestling seems to be for GSP. But Lesnars size has nothing to do with skill. Like I said I know that there are no weight classes above heavyweight, Alves is still within the weight classes he fights in otherwise he'd either have to cut weight or move to the next weight class.

Mir did talk a lot of shit, so did I about Lesnar, but I still feel I have good reason. I think he's a sad excuse for a UFC Title holder, for a fighter altogether in the UFC. Like I said about Tim Silvia. His size was also what kept him on top for a long time, yeah he could throw a punch, anyone who is taught how to properly throw your weight into a punch can usually execute them well enough and he certainly had the weight behind, much like Lesnar.

I really don't like seeing him holding a belt in the UFC.

Now Dana is finally giving Kimbo a shot but he has to prove himself. And to be quite honest he has more right to have gotten a free pass into UFC than Lesnar has. Least it was fighting that got him the attention he has. If they were to take the Belt from Lesnar and make him go through the same rigorous training and beatings that all the other UFC competitors have to go through perhaps my tone would change. But until that time comes and he continues to merely blanket his opponents using his weight as his major 'strength' I personally won't support his being a legit part of the UFC.
 
His point with Alves was that the weight limit for Welterweight is 170 and he fights at around 200ish so 30lbs above. The weight limit for Heavyweight is 265 and lesnar was about 300ish so 35lbs above. If you're gonna knock someone for being bigger than they should be allowed to because of the weight, then you might as well knock just about every fighter cause i doubt hardly any of them actually fight at the weight cap specified.

The heavyweight class is just a little different because fighters can fight at a much wider range of weights, but is it brocks fault that hes a giant guy? He makes weight for weight-ins, he doesnt go against any of the UFC rules, so he is fine. Mir got knocked the fuck out, plain and simple. Now I like Mir, I like him alot, and would have loved to see him win especially after his comeback from his accident and everything, but he lost and it doesnt mean Brock is any less of a fighter. Yeah so he laid on top of mir and picked him apart. What the fuck did GSP do to alves? Oh yeah he used his skill and strength to take him down, lay on him, hold him down and out wrestle him. Not much different if you ask me.

Also I've said it before and I'll say it again, sure maybe brock got handed a nice deal walkin up to the UFC title fight quick, but he now has also beat two of pretty much the best heavyweights in the world, he won the belt, and has now defended it, I dont know why you knock the guy. Shit Anderson Silva only had one fight before his title shot, but you're not knockin him.
 
Alves made weight for this fight.?

If you're talking about past fights you are probably/possibly right but not that I'm aware of.

I stand by what I said.

GSP did more than lay on him, he tried stand up and when he knew he was wearing him down with the take downs he stuck to it, yes it's a strength, one he trains hard to maintain.

Lesnar probably does train hard to lay dead weight over his opponents smothering them and rendering them helpless under his mass.
 
Well all im asking people is to look at both sides, Lesnar was a D1 Champion Caliber Wrestler, the problem is he has not had to result to any of that for his fights, so we cant say for sure if he is a Skill fighter or not. While were mentioning skill, Lesnar has an 86% Takedown rate, thats higher than GSP's takedown rate (Granted GSP has alot more fights in him) but 86% is pretty damn effective, and i wrestled and takedowns are all skill and NOT brute force, IE GSP taking down Alves 10 times.

We should not be knocking Lesnar because he isnt doing anything dirty or cheap, if anything knock the UFC but dont call him a joke because hes had a whole 5 fights where he hasnt had to result to anything in his arsenal except his size and strength.

And yes Alves made weight for this fight, or else he wouldnt be allowed, you get like 1-2lb buffer.

Another example of this is the Belcher Vs. Akiyama (sp) fight, the first live one of the night. You cant possibly tell me those guys weigh the same during that fight, they say the same thing, they make weight and then gain it back in the time between weigh-in and fights. Thats how all martial arts/wrestling matches go. Look up lesnar's matches in Amateur Wrestling, the man has a ton of talent, and lets not forget, you arent just BORN that massive. It takes alot of discipline and work to get to that size.

Another reason that Massive Size DOES NOT equal a winning UFC fighter. Back when there werent much weightclasses, and the UFC was more brutal and barabaric, in the time of the GREAT Royce Gracie. Look at the fight between him and Ken Shamrock.

Graycie was wearing a Gi, and Ken Shamrock was a beast of a man, ripped from head to toe and Graycie looked like your average joe. Graycie took Shamrock out even being outweighted maybe 100Lbs so its no excuse. Graycie did things like that day in and day out.
 
Don't bring up the old days of the UFC those really can't be compared to todays UFC. In the old days barely anyone knew B.J.J. so those who knew it had a huge advantage over everyone else. People treated the UFC more like a kickboxing match. Nowadays everyone is more versatile in their training.
 
i also dont think anderson should have got a title fight that fast but the difference is he had more then 4 fights. gps takin down alves and keepin him there is a skill that he has. holding someone down cuz you out weigh them buy 50 pounds is a tad different. id like too se brock in there with someone his size and see how he does.
 
Auron X said:
Don't bring up the old days of the UFC those really can't be compared to todays UFC. In the old days barely anyone knew B.J.J. so those who knew it had a huge advantage over everyone else. People treated the UFC more like a kickboxing match. Nowadays everyone is more versatile in their training.
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Exactly, Frank Mir is a BJJ master, and he couldnt use it on Brock so what does that mean? Are you saying Lesnar knows BJJ? Because i dont think he does, and im pretty sure you dont think he does either, so then mir has the advantage?

If your answer to these questions are No, then you must say lesnar can defend against getting caught by BJJ moves, which i would consider skilled.
 
Lesnar is a charging brick wall. Even the most skilled could be easily overwhelmed by brute force. They can be the most technically skilled all-around fighters but with a man his size barrelling towards them intent on taking them down using all his weight then just pinning them down, what possible skill can they use (other than evasiveness at the take down attempt) to avoid his overwhelming them?

Granted they can STILL beat him with their skills. Mir could have taken Lesnar had he not been given the chance to just maul Mir before starting to work on the floor. His size DOES make the match ups ridiculous. It's because of his size and weight GRW BJJ MT and other arts would be difficult to execute on him once he's got you down.

It's fair to say when GSP gets you down you're in trouble and can be dominated but you still have a chance! Alves getting full guard on you, you better pray cause you'll likely be brutalized but you still have a chance. Lesnar on top of you.. . ugh.. just.. wait for the inevitable, because eventually his punches will do damage.
 
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Morch is right about the idea of a new weight class. I know about brock's amateur wrestling career. i know he was exceptional and he is an outstanding athlete, not not taking that away from him. UFC is not amateur wrestling, its mixed martial arts. these men train for years the their respective martial discipline and work their way up the ladder. brock hasnt been in the UFC a quarter of the time of anyone he has fought. but he got a title shot far earlier then i think he should have. brock is a great amature wrestler and those guys can brawl, no question about that. but if he were the same weight as the fighters he's gone up against instead of 15-20 lbs overthem i dont beleive he'd be doing as well as he is.

im not hating on brock because he wins. i just do not feel he is a better fighter then the men he has been pitted against and i think that he is in the wrong weight class. the weight classes exists for a reason. to pit men of equal size and skill against each other to ensure a fair fighting environment. skill is what should win you a match, not your size. brock is winning matches because of his size. once his big ass pins you on the ground he just lays there and punches you in the head. and as powerful as he is it wont take much for him to come out on top.

and there is a big difference then a 200 lbs guy VS. a 175 lbs guy then say a 255 lbs guy VS. a 300 lbs guy. if frank mir fought a welterweight would you consider that a fair fight? 300lbs, or any weight close to it, does take a shitload of work & disipline to reach. that tells me brock knows what he's doing in the weight room. yes there are some smaller guys that can take bigger guys, those guys are prodigies so to speak. but do you think gracie could take brock if size doesnt matter? brock has excelent wresling skills, but i still see his sheer size being the winning edge for him.
 
Airou said:
Exactly, Frank Mir is a BJJ master, and he couldnt use it on Brock so what does that mean? Are you saying Lesnar knows BJJ? Because i dont think he does, and im pretty sure you dont think he does either, so then mir has the advantage?

If your answer to these questions are No, then you must say lesnar can defend against getting caught by BJJ moves, which i would consider skilled.
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I'm sure that lesnar has training in submission defenses after his last encounter with Mir. If it he didn't then he is even more retarded than I previously thought. If you watch the fight Lesnar just pins him down and traps his hips, head, and arms very effectively. I have never agreed that Lesnar knows proper pinning techniques from his wrestling career. I just want to see him try it on some opponents his size.

Oh and I feel the UFC HW division in a whole is mostly a joke and it needs to sign some better fighters.
 
Aye the division is very weak, hopefully they bring in that Russian to give it some spice.

Btw Alves fighting at 200 is 30 lbs over the 170 weight class, thats a 30 lb difference. I dont think lesnar fought at 300 since hes never really weighed that much, not even when he was on the Vikings Practice Squad, he was probably 285 which creates the similar difference that Alves had. Size does not always equal strength.

And if you put lesnar in UFC 1 with having no knowledge of BJJ, yes i believe Graycie beats him like he did ken shamrock who outweighed him FAR more then Lesnar > Mir or Alves > GSP
 
Airou said:
Aye the division is very weak, hopefully they bring in that Russian to give it some spice.

Btw Alves fighting at 200 is 30 lbs over the 170 weight class, thats a 30 lb difference. I dont think lesnar fought at 300 since hes never really weighed that much, not even when he was on the Vikings Practice Squad, he was probably 285 which creates the similar difference that Alves had. Size does not always equal strength.

And if you put lesnar in UFC 1 with having no knowledge of BJJ, yes i believe Graycie beats him like he did ken shamrock who outweighed him FAR more then Lesnar > Mir or Alves > GSP
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I also don't find Graycie fair because well its Graycie...his family created BJJ and he is one of the best BJJ practitioners in the world. I think that the UFC needs to expand its markets into Asia. But I do agree with you that size does not always equal strength.
 
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