morrigan's robe on quetz.

[Tomasello]

Since my comment as created some what of a stir let me define my rationalization for why I said RDM > BLM > BLU. Its just an opinion although probably biased and I'm certainly not married to it or anything.

For RDMs a Morrigans Robe is equivilent to Dalmatica and Crimson Body or Errant Body roughly only a 2 INT or MND difference too me is not much of a difference in the grand scheme. MAB, STR, Acc or Att are not factors at all for me when I play RDM.

For BLMs a Morrigans Robe is equivilent to Sorcerer's Coat or Dalmatica and Igqira Weskit. The 1% additional nuke damage (2% if you got Genie) from the MAB and +5 additional elemental skill is a fair trade off for the 8 INT.

In both regards, the benefits to both jobs are virtually similar. 2 pieces rolled into one.

Now considering a Damaltica or Morrigans are the only two pieces that give, in combination with RDM AF2 hat, rdms +2 Refresh tick AND a Sorcerer's Coat is much easier to get then a Dalmatica, not to mention the Weskits Conserve MP trait, RDM > BLM in my opinion.

Now as for BLUs being last, in the fairness of full disclosure and if someone can convince me I'm willing to put BLU first if it can be explained to me reasonably. Isn't how the BLU job works is they TP with there sword and then use the TP for their Chain Affinitys, and what not? And correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it better to TP in Attack gear not STR gear?

So wouldn't it make sense that A) They macro in their +15 Blue Magic Skill Body for any Physical or Magical Spell they are going to use and B) when there TPing, instead of using and piece that only gives them +5 Acc and +5 Att (the Robe) they use something like an Assault Jerkin so they get +3 Acc and +18 Att. Too me, -2 acc is worth 13 more Att.

Again I'm a BLU noob but still seems to me RDM > BLM > BLU

 

[Passions]

Elemental skill doesn't nessecarily give you more damage. It downs the resist rate and how high on the scale you can hit.

Personally I don't see why blms are so gogo eyed over this. You want a ref tick wear a black/demon cloak. The elemental skill and mab from weskit gives you as a blm what your job requires.

Can't really comment on blu don't know enough

for rdm I'd have to say itd make a nice piece for cannon parties, but when your doing endgame I'd be out on it except the ref tick is nice. I would have to say that errant would be more benificial with the -enm and +10stats. Getting shit to stick and be strong is crucial while minimizing the hate gained just seems to outweigh the 1mp tick to me.


I still have to say useless for blm without full set and even then I'd have to see results before I made that decision. No -enm sucks when it comes to deciding on blm gear. I mean spike flail? No thanks

 

[Tomasello]

Elemental skill doesn't nessecarily give you more damage.

If I have 1 elemental skill and you have 300 and we both nuke a rabbit in ronafure as level 75 blms will you do more dmg then me all stats being equal? Over time I will experience more resists then you even if you think its slight.

My point was I guess +6 elemental skill increase and 2 MAB more from a genie will give you more dmg on your nukes then 8 INT.

Then again 10 INT and 10 MND will help Enfeebles more then 8 INT and 8 MND so its a comperable downgrade for both jobs.

I will consede IF you somehow managed to get 4/5 Morrigan pieces and all you needed was body, the combined Magic Attack Bonus of the set might put BLMs over. No one really knows what the MAB of the set is so its hard to speculate.


***Edited: To clarify Elemental Skill

 

[Passions]

Elemental skill does not boost your max damage that way. You nuke a lvl 4 rabbit with druid slops on see the damage then repeat without slops (no other gear in the slot) it will do the same damage.


*edit* this thread has shown mostly that people still don't know how the gear for their job properly works. I've seen countless post of people wronly posting info on stats. Stay away from alla people its the devil.

 

[Uzor]

If I have 1 elemental skill and you have 300 and we both nuke a rabbit in ronafure as level 75 blms will you do more dmg then me all stats being equal? If the answer is yes then it does boost nuke dmg, even if you think its slight.

My point was I guess +6 elemental skill increase and 2 MAB more from a genie will give you more dmg on your nukes then 8 INT.

Then again 10 INT and 10 MND will help Enfeebles more then 8 INT and 8 MND so its comperable downgrade for both jobs.

This made no sense to me. You seem to be implying that elemental magic skill increases direct damage. This is not the case. It only affects resist rates.

Although I'm not sure if that's what you're implying, as you said "We'd to the same damage all stats being equal, which means it do increase damage". Which honestly made no sense. At all.

Since my comment as created some what of a stir let me define my rationalization for why I said RDM > BLM > BLU. Its just an opinion although probably biased and I'm certainly not married to it or anything.

For RDMs a Morrigans Robe is equivilent to Dalmatica and Crimson Body or Errant Body roughly only a 2 INT or MND difference too me is not much of a difference in the grand scheme. MAB, STR, Acc or Att are not factors at all for me when I play RDM.

For BLMs a Morrigans Robe is equivilent to Sorcerer's Coat or Dalmatica and Igqira Weskit. The 1% additional nuke damage (2% if you got Genie) from the MAB and +5 additional elemental skill is a fair trade off for the 8 INT. Elemental Skill if I'm not mistaken also adds dmg as well as acc.

In both regards, the benefits to both jobs are virtually similar. 2 pieces rolled into one.

Now considering a Damaltica or Morrigans are the only two pieces that give, in combination with RDM AF2 hat, rdms +2 Refresh tick AND a Sorcerer's Coat is much easier to get then a Dalmatica, not to mention the Weskits Conserve MP trait, RDM > BLM in my opinion.

Now as for BLUs being last, in the fairness of full disclosure and if someone can convince me I'm willing to put BLU first if it can be explained to me reasonably. Isn't how the BLU job works is they TP with there sword and then use the TP for their Chain Affinitys, and what not? And correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it better to TP in Attack gear not STR gear?

So wouldn't it make sense that A) They macro in their +15 Blue Magic Skill Body for any Physical or Magical Spell they are going to use and B) when there TPing, instead of using and piece that only gives them +5 Acc and +5 Att (the Robe) they use something like an Assault Jerkin so they get +3 Acc and +18 Att. Too me, -2 acc is worth 13 more Att.

Again I'm a BLU noob but still seems to me RDM > BLM > BLU

It depends on situation. Agaisnt HNM's etc, you'll use your TP on spells with Chain Affinity. However, in merit parties you'll first WS and then SC with Chain Affinity. The most popular one being Savage Blade > Disseverment. Since Morrigan Body gives a boost to both attack, accuracy, MND and STR, it'll increase Savage Blade damage. Additionally, the +8 STR and +5 accuracy on Morrigan Body would also increase the damage of Disseverment.

The difference between this body and assault jerkin would be -2 accuracy +9 attack. However, Assault Jerkin doesn't give Auto Refresh, which makes Morrigan's Robe superiour to Assault Jerkin.

Homam body is the only piece that could potentially be equall or better then Morrigan's body. However, I think Morrigan's Robe would take the cake here, too, due to the Auto Refresh, which would most likely increase your damage (through magic spells) enough to outdamage the 2.5% tripple attack Homam Body gives.

 

[pchan]

You're an idiot.
Why the hell does RDM need to nuke?

I think you are the moron. Rdm need to nuke because they have nukes ... Also, never heard of chaisnpell ?

A lot of people don't know that chainspell+nuke is a lot of damage. This piece of gears makes u nuke even harder. If you get 700 dmg on Blizzard 3 with this gear, and have 900 mps, then if you use Chainspell Blizzard 3 and convert, u can throw 14 spells for a roughly 10k damage. I know ppl would protest that 700 dmg on bli 3 for rdm is unlikely. Consider yourself nuking a dynamis Boss. Assume you can achieve 400 dmg with this gear. Then you can hope to do ... 5,600 dmg.

 

[Tomasello]

This made no sense to me. You seem to be implying that elemental magic skill increases direct damage. This is not the case. It only affects resist rates.

Although I'm not sure if that's what you're implying, as you said "We'd to the same damage all stats being equal, which means it do increase damage". Which honestly made no sense. At all.

I phrased that badly. I did mean in terms of resist rates. Skill will not add to direct dmg but will help nuking the same thing over time. The person with more skill will get a few less resists translating to more dmg.

If you want, ignore the elemental skill factor. 2% bonus dmg on nukes is still greater then 8 int. The elemental skill is just gravy.

The difference between this body and assault jerkin would be -2 accuracy +9 attack. However, Assault Jerkin doesn't give Auto Refresh, which makes Morrigan's Robe superiour to Assault Jerkin.

Well the auto-refresh is what makes it superior for RDMs and BLMs too however your admit this would be more beneficial for merit partys with the use of Savage Blade... That to me doesn't justify putting it over RDMs or BLMs. On an HNM your more likely to use the +15 Blue Magic Skill so you get the most out of your Chain Affinity.

 

[Tomasello]

I think you are the moron.... blah blah blah... Consider yourself nuking a dynamis Boss.

HA HA HA HA HA... you jack ass, Rdms Chainspell Stun DL. The other bosses meh. 4% MAB is no justification from taking the Robe from a BLM tool. Go back to fairy land noob. Unless I'm fighting Maat or CoP Snoll. Both of which I can't use Morrigan robe anyway, I am RARELY if EVER Chainspell nuking anything. Anything worth Chainspell nuking is better off being Chainspell Stunned and letting the BLMS go to town.

Your a bigger ass then your ninja lotting moron friend.

 

[pchan]

HA HA HA HA HA... you jack ass, Rdms Chainspell Stun DL. Go back to fairy land noob. Unless I'm fighting Maat or CoP Snoll. Both of which I can't use Morrigan robe anyway, I am RARELY if EVER Chainspell nuking anything. Anything worth Chainspell nuking is better off being Chainspell Stunned and letting the BLMS go to town.

Your a bigger ass then your ninja lotting moron friend.

Chainspell is for noobs that have no strategy !

Obviously you don't know much about nuking as rdm.

 

[Tomasello]

Chainspell is for noobs that have no strategy !

Obviously you don't know much about nuking as rdm.

Let me guess.. your a Rdm/Blm with a heavy INT build? 2004 called, the plds with heavy VIT builds and earth staffs want to hang out.

 

[pchan]

Let me guess.. your a Rdm/Blm with a heavy INT build? 2004 called, the plds with heavy VIT builds and earth staffs want to hang out.

Yes i have a heavy int stuff ! My int is 63 like yours.

 

[Uzor]

If you want, ignore the elemental skill factor. 2% bonus dmg on nukes is still greater then 8 int. The elemental skill is just gravy.

2% damage on nukes? ; Igqira only have 1% more, elemental magic skill. Besides, a heavy Magic Attack Bonus build isn't always the way to go. An example of this is on stuff with high base INT. In these cases, your base damage will be low, making Magic Attack Bonus weaker. In some cases, INT is actually better then Magic Attack Bonus.

Well the auto-refresh is what makes it superior for RDMs and BLMs too however your admit this would be more beneficial for merit partys with the use of Savage Blade... That to me doesn't justify putting it over RDMs or BLMs. On an HNM your more likely to use the +15 Blue Magic Skill so you get the most out of your Chain Affinity.

BLM and RDM have other autorefresh body pieces, though. All BLU have is Vermillion (sucks) and Morrigan Body.

And +15 Blue Magic Skill doesn't affect Chain Affinity much at all. As I mentioned earlier, Chain Affinity doubles the stat modifiers of physical spells, which means that during chain affinity, Disseverment would have a STR_100 mod instead of STR_50, most likely making Nemain's superior to AF1 body.

And btw, who exactly is Pchan's "ninja lotting moron friend"? Or did you make that up all by yourself in an attempt to prove a point? ; 'cause I'm surprised you didn't mention all of my hacking friends in that case. I don't see how mentioning his ninja lotting friend is relevant to the topic and discussion.

 

[Vilurum]

I would dearly love to see a Dynamis Lord strategy that involved eating his AoEs and living to tell the tale ... because apparently there's no strategy to chainstunning to prevent attacks that one-shot (two-shot if they're lucky) anyone remotely nearby ...

About the Morrigan's Robe, my view of when and why it would likely be used in approximate order of prioritizing what the jobs would *want* it for (please correct, add, remove, or re-prioritize situations as y'all see fit, I ain't 75 in any of these jobs):

RDM: body-only Auto-Refresh, Auto-Refresh you can effectively debuff/Stoneskin with if you don't want to inv-1 for Errant/Crimson, nuking gear (situational since RDMs often don't nuke), lolmeleeRDM (situational; move up in the list if you solo a lot)

BLM: 8 INT and 5 MAB for nuking non-resistant things (Weskit > this for resistant things, so situational nuking piece), Stoneskin macro if you'd rather lug this around than Errant, Auto-Refresh itself if you happen to be standing and not casting at the time (Black Cloak, or even Sorcerer's Coat, is a rather more easily obtained thing to suit this goal), lolmeleeBLM (*very* situational)

BLU: ability to get Auto-Refresh and reasonably good melee stats at the same time, melee stats themselves (particularly nice for WS, reasonable for TP, situational vs. AF for spells), Auto-Refresh itself, INT and MAB for lol magical blue magic (very situational).

 

[Tomasello]

2% damage on nukes? ; Igqira only have 1% more, elemental magic skill.

Genie Weskit... and please don't give me the I can't afford it excuse. I wish I could buy a good Auto-Refresh body piece.

In some cases, INT is actually better then Magic Attack Bonus.

If the BLM feels he needs INT that badly more he can always use Errant. Even comes with some -Enmity.

BLM and RDM have other autorefresh body pieces, though. All BLU have is Vermillion (sucks) and Morrigan Body.

All RDM has is Vermillion, which negates our AF2 hat, and Dalmatica. BLU can give themselves the Auto-Refresh Trait if they need it with their spells.

And +15 Blue Magic Skill doesn't affect Chain Affinity much at all. As I mentioned earlier, Chain Affinity doubles the stat modifiers of physical spells, which means that during chain affinity, Disseverment would have a STR_100 mod instead of STR_50, most likely making Nemain's superior to AF1 body.

I assume even BLU's get resisted from time to time... Using Chain Affinity to Double your stats is pointless if you catch a 50% resist. Unless your telling me CA is a guareented unresisted hit or something. This I don't know.

And btw, who exactly is Pchan's "ninja lotting moron friend"? Or did you make that up all by yourself in an attempt to prove a point? ; 'cause I'm surprised you didn't mention all of my hacking friends in that case. I don't see how mentioning his ninja lotting friend is relevant to the topic and discussion.

I was talking about Tec ninja lotting not Pchan... I don't really care if you associated with OH in the past or not Uzor. Like you said its not relevant to the topic and discussion.

 

[Vilurum]

All RDM has is Vermillion, which negates our AF2 hat, and Dalmatica.

I think Uzor's point was that BLU doesn't even have Dalmatica. And just because Salvage may well be a more reasonable option than Nidhogg/Aspido abjuration drops for a body-only Refresh piece for a RDM, Salvage is the *only* option for a body-only Refresh piece for a BLU. RDM still has Dalmatica as an alternative (an annoying alternative to be sure, but Morrigan's is annoying too).

And Vermy's lack of other useful stats and the fact that it takes up the head slot is a kick in the face to BLU just like it is to RDM. (Not gonna get into a debate about which job is giving up more stuff when wearing Vermy, i.e. which job is being kicked in the face *harder*. The point is, it's painful in an absolute sense for both of them.)

I assume even BLU's get resisted from time to time... Using Chain Affinity to Double your stats is pointless if you catch a 50% resist. Unless your telling me CA is a guareented unresisted hit or something. This I don't know.

Physical blue magic is more akin to a WS (which costs MP instead of using up TP, though you can opt to CA and use up TP as well to boost it further) than it is to a magic spell, really. It's not really like spells which either land (unresisted or partially resisted) or are fully resisted. It's more like a 1+ hit attack where anywhere from none to all of the hits can land. (If you miss entirely, you do get a message that *resembles* a magic resist, something to the tune of "uses ____ but the spell fails to take effect", but gameplay mechanics-wise, this basically just means you whiffed.)

Blue magic skill *does* apply to physical blue magic, but only in the same way that Attack applies to WS. The accuracy of physical blue magic is based mostly (if not entirely?) on weapon accuracy. (Which is to say, it's nice and all, but accuracy and mods make a much bigger deal. Think of it as comparing a melee body with 5 acc and 8 STR - Morrigan's - to a melee body piece with 15 att and 3 STR - AF - when deciding which to use for a WS. Any melee worth their salt would tell you that the former is better.)

For *magical* blue magic, that works like normal spells and the blue magic skill will determine resist rate, so yeah, you'd almost certainly be better off with AF for that, unless the mob was wimpy enough that you wouldn't be concerned about an extra 15 skill for resists.

 

[Uzor]

I think Uzor's point was that BLU doesn't even have Dalmatica. And just because Salvage may well be a more reasonable option than Nidhogg/Aspido abjuration drops for a body-only Refresh piece for a RDM, Salvage is the *only* option for a body-only Refresh piece for a BLU. RDM still has Dalmatica as an alternative (an annoying alternative to be sure, but Morrigan's is annoying too).

And Vermy's lack of other useful stats and the fact that it takes up the head slot is a kick in the face to BLU just like it is to RDM. (Not gonna get into a debate about which job is giving up more stuff when wearing Vermy, i.e. which job is being kicked in the face *harder*. The point is, it's painful in an absolute sense for both of them.)



Physical blue magic is more akin to a WS (which costs MP instead of using up TP, though you can opt to CA and use up TP as well to boost it further) than it is to a magic spell, really. It's not really like spells which either land (unresisted or partially resisted) or are fully resisted. It's more like a 1+ hit attack where anywhere from none to all of the hits can land. (If you miss entirely, you do get a message that *resembles* a magic resist, something to the tune of "uses ____ but the spell fails to take effect", but gameplay mechanics-wise, this basically just means you whiffed.)

Blue magic skill *does* apply to physical blue magic, but only in the same way that Attack applies to WS. The accuracy of physical blue magic is based mostly (if not entirely?) on weapon accuracy. (Which is to say, it's nice and all, but accuracy and mods make a much bigger deal. Think of it as comparing a melee body with 5 acc and 8 STR - Morrigan's - to a melee body piece with 15 att and 3 STR - AF - when deciding which to use for a WS. Any melee worth their salt would tell you that the former is better.)

For *magical* blue magic, that works like normal spells and the blue magic skill will determine resist rate, so yeah, you'd almost certainly be better off with AF for that, unless the mob was wimpy enough that you wouldn't be concerned about an extra 15 skill for resists.

Bingo. Although Blue Magic skill isn't really like attack, its more like the main hand weapon, in that Blue Magic Skill raises the base "weapon" damage, not attack itself.

And in case you didn't know, Tomasello, Auto Refresh stacks with Auto Refresh job trait. Hence the Auto Refresh is just as usefull as it'd be otherwise. Stacked with Refresh, it means you'll have enough to do a Disseverment every 50 sec, assuming you don't have Conserve MP set as a job trait. And this is without having to worry about ever running out of MP.

 

[Tomasello]

And in case you didn't know, Tomasello, Auto Refresh stacks with Auto Refresh job trait. Hence the Auto Refresh is just as usefull as it'd be otherwise. Stacked with Refresh, it means you'll have enough to do a Disseverment every 50 sec, assuming you don't have Conserve MP set as a job trait. And this is without having to worry about ever running out of MP.

You keep using Disseverment as an excuse and you stated it had a STR_50?

According to this: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Disseverment

It's STR_20 and DEX_20 and since your AF body gives you 3 STR and 3 DEX as well as +15 Blue Skill its seems pretty much the same difference. You could even macro in a Flora Cotehardie for 4 STR and 3 DEX... if you don't care about Blue Skill and want to come even closer.

The bottom line is this has basically become a what job needs Auto-Refresh more arguement.... All of the other stats on this piece have virtually identical stats (give or take 1-2 at most) found in other much easily obtainable pieces. This is especially true for BLMs who can even get a Sorcerer's Coat for Auto-Refresh relatively easily with any good Dynamis Linkshell.

 

[Vilurum]

Well limiting it to auto-refresh actually tips the scales more in favor of BLU than RDM, since Morrigan's is auto-refresh with melee stats, which is useful to BLU far more than it is to RDM. (And the fact remains that RDM has an alternative body-only auto-refresh option, while BLU does not.)

Mage stats *can* just be macro'd in for spells (inventory clutter may make this annoying, but it's very doable), while melee stats you more or less have to leave on all the time you're meleeing.

RDM's ability to enfeeble (assuming macro swaps) isn't hurt by standing around in a Dalmatica all the time, and RDM's regeneration of MP is only very slightly hurt by macroing out Dalmatica for a second.

Whereas BLU's melee ability drops if meleeing in a Vermy (again reiterating that they *have* to lose the head slot with anything besides Morrigan's), and if they want melee stats then they can't wear an auto-refresh piece.

Basically, both jobs can have their cake and eat it too with Morrigan's, but RDM can also have their cake and eat it too *without* Morrigan's, while BLU cannot.

EDIT: You're right about Disseverment's stats, but I think that was more just a case of getting his wires crossed on an example. Cannonball is STR_50 VIT_50, Dimensional Death is STR_50, Death Scissors is STR_60, Vertical Cleave is STR_50 - point being there do exist spells with big honking STR mods, even if the one he mentioned - Disseverment - isn't one of them.

 

[jamal]

You keep using Disseverment as an excuse and you stated it had a STR_50?

According to this: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Disseverment

It's STR_20 and DEX_20 and since your AF body gives you 3 STR and 3 DEX as well as +15 Blue Skill its seems pretty much the same difference. You could even macro in a Flora Cotehardie for 4 STR and 3 DEX... if you don't care about Blue Skill and want to come even closer.

The bottom line is this has basically become a what job needs Auto-Refresh more arguement.... All of the other stats on this piece have virtually identical stats (give or take 1-2 at most) found in other much easily obtainable pieces. This is especially true for BLMs who can even get a Sorcerer's Coat for Auto-Refresh relatively easily with any good Dynamis Linkshell.

And thus why I push for Dalmy's to be RDM#1. You can't use Salvage as the end-all be-all source of all gear, just like you can't from any other facet of this game. The shell that will benefit the MOST from this is one who assigns it appropriately to people who have the best alternate gear available. Saying RDM should have priority because of the option of Camping Nid/Aspid repeatedly to get the dalmy is piss poor. This is another option, but for a shell to benefit the most from it, you apply it to who does not have other options and who receives the greatest benefit from it.
Just because a rdm hasn't spent the countless hours to obtain a dalmy does not mean they should jump up the order for a refresh piece thats marginally, if at all better then current gear available to them.

 

[pchan]

I would dearly love to see a Dynamis Lord strategy that involved eating his AoEs and living to tell the tale ... because apparently there's no strategy to chainstunning to prevent attacks that one-shot (two-shot if they're lucky) anyone remotely nearby ...

I hope you use rdm 2H for other stuff than stunning Dynamis Lord. Even with CS stun, few LS can can kill it. I mean, i don't see many people with shadow mantles ...