morrigan's robe on quetz.

[Vilurum]

Ppl keep telling me it's stupid to use 2H at start because it could be used in case of "danger". Why is it it stupid if you don't want to use it in the next 2 hours ..

Because it's very possible to get to DL before 2 hours have passed in the first place. As I acknowledged before (which you seem to have neglected to quote), *if* it takes you that long to get to DL, then you might as well Chainspell at the beginning because there's no harm in it. I'm totally fine with that.

But for *faster* shells which *do* get to DL before 2 hours have passed after that first extension, the soonest you can Chainspell without having to wait for it, is *before* Dynamis. Which is, of course, completely useless to Dynamis.

As for using it in "danger" between the start of the run and DL ... no, you wouldn't want to do that. Better to take the wipe than to *really* make a huge wait for (or entirely screw over) DL himself. (EDIT: Granted, if you wipe along the way you're almost sure to get to DL after the 2 hour mark, but it's not like you should Chainspell at the beginning *expecting* to get the delayed DL due to a wipe ...) But as I *also* mentioned and as you *also* neglected to quote, there do in fact exist times in Dynamis that are *not* "Xarcabard between the start of the run and DL". Such as "Xarcabard after DL", "Xarcabard if you're not going for DL", "any Dynamis area that is not Xarcabard" ... yanno? Chainspell Raise is useful *then*.

Did you follow the discussion ? I'm talking about first extension. Enter, run, chainspell , Nuke. 3 minutes have passed top. As i said earlier, i want to see a shell wiping dynamis lord 1H30 after dynamis start ...

1:30, probably not. 1:45 or 1:50, quite possibly. (And technically the time in question, when Chainspell needs to be up, is when you *start* fighting DL, not the moment he keels over, which is a few minutes later.) And factor in your 3 to 5 minutes to get the RDM a glass and have them run over and actually *do* the Chainspell, and that's adding to the wait. Dynamis time is too valuable to sit on your thumbs for 15+ minutes waiting for a Chainspell just so you can go "yay I got mileage out of this 2-hour at the beginning!". Ya know, cost-benefit?

And, just because it bears repeating in case you didn't get it the last few times I mentioned it:

If your shell gets to DL slowly enough that 2 hours have passed since the first time extension, then there is no harm in using Chainspell for it. But it's possible to get there faster than that.

no comment

I suppose I should've thrown in a or a lol or something for that comment to indicate it was mostly in jest and wasn't remotely a viable strategic option. My apologies that you took it seriously.

 

[pchan]

What confuses me, is Chainspell kills it fast, but it fact not instantly like Barrage or perhaps an AM2 would. Wouldn't this mean the RDM agros and winds up dying? Just curious.

Also, Errant Houppelande gives the same Magic Accuracy overall as a Chasuble, I believe, plus potency from increasing the raw stat. So unless you're interested in the 20mp or not-getting reduced melee stats (...), Errant is entirely better.

Rdm dies because 20 monster are smashing him.

Errant has not "magic accuracy written on it". Some ppl believe it gives some accuracy because it is the case for melee stats and accuracy, for which tests are easlily done. Like 2 dex= 1 acc.

As i said, I use chasuble to nuke stuff that can resist me. I'm rdm, not a BLm, 230 elemental skill is gay. Any accuracy is welcome.


If i am to cast an enfeebling spell i won't use that since if i look for accuracy i would pick AF body, if i look potency i would use ugly errand.

 

[Uzor]

it doesn't take 3-5 min to get the RDM a glass. Trade hourglass, duplicate hourglass one, give to RDM, RDM enters, nukes statue, while the other glasses are being handed out. 5 min is being generous.

 

[Vilurum]

it doesn't take 3-5 min to get the RDM a glass. Trade hourglass, duplicate hourglass one, give to RDM, RDM enters, nukes statue, while the other glasses are being handed out. 5 min is being generous.

Maybe 2 min though, point is that you still have to count from the time the RDM does that, and not from the time the glass was traded initially. If you get to DL at, say, 1:50 into the run, and the RDM used Chainspell at 2 minutes in, you have a 12 minute wait for that (since Chainspell will be up 2:02 into the run), not a 10 minute wait.

Not saying it's a huge difference, just saying if we're gonna nitpick the numbers, it's important to get the math right.

 

[Mishaela]

2 STR, 2DEX, 2AGI...all have proven to contribute very slightly to the respective things they're based on. Between that and the fact that I can land /37BLM or /37WHM enfeebs/nukes on L60ish stuff would lead me to believe that they MND/INT -must- give some magic accuracy, as there's no way a 37WHM or 37BLM would realistically be landing their spells effectively on L60+ monsters. On their own.

In which case, if MND/INT work like the rest of the stats do, every 2 would = 1 m.acc to their respective spells, in which case Errant would be entirely better...if this isn't how it works, however, then I have no idea how a SMN/WHM lands silence on Thousand Eyes and such.

 

[Uzor]

2 STR, 2DEX, 2AGI...all have proven to contribute very slightly to the respective things they're based on. Between that and the fact that I can land /37BLM or /37WHM enfeebs/nukes on L60ish stuff would lead me to believe that they MND/INT -must- give some magic accuracy, as there's no way a 37WHM or 37BLM would realistically be landing their spells effectively on L60+ monsters. On their own.

In which case, if MND/INT work like the rest of the stats do, every 2 would = 1 m.acc to their respective spells, in which case Errant would be entirely better...if this isn't how it works, however, then I have no idea how a SMN/WHM lands silence on Thousand Eyes and such.

Yes, I agree, personally I believe INT and MND do add to magic accuracy. But others don't.

Besides, its not only the enfeebling magic skill that counts. Your lvl vs. enemy level counts aswell.

 

[Mishaela]

Yes, I agree, personally I believe INT and MND do add to magic accuracy. But others don't.

Besides, its not only the enfeebling magic skill that counts. Your lvl vs. enemy level counts aswell.

I always heard there's penalties for being lower level, but no bonuses for being higher?

 

[pchan]

Yes, I agree, personally I believe INT and MND do add to magic accuracy. But others don't.

Besides, its not only the enfeebling magic skill that counts. Your lvl vs. enemy level counts aswell.

Once again this is an assumption and if you look on wiki for magic accuracy, you'll see they don't have a clue what it is since they basically made a copy-paste from accuracy lol.

Anyway it's nearly impossible to test since either you are BLM and get very few resists on nukes, either you are rdm and get alot. Same for enfeeblings. What i tested for sure is that int doesnt affect sleep, and 1 magic accuracy = +3% magic accuracy (eg total success/total spells).

 

[dehorse]

sick armor

 

[Bajaratt]

So say the guys that claimed that WAR > PUP in salvage (with wpn, ability, gears and DESTROYERS lol).

So you're going to keep going on, making yourself look more like an idiot while continuing to think you're right, ok.

WAR brings a lot more to the table than PUP does for salvage. Initially, PUP is stronger, but once gear starts getting passed out WAR quickly overtakes PUP. People were arguing with you was because of the reason why PUP was stronger at the start, which you continued to ignore and just said it was the relatively unimportant skill difference. If PUP didn't get any martial arts like Warrior then Warrior would be a better option given it's substantially greater use later on in the runs.

You too don't make me say that rdm's 2H > rng's barrage on first extension. Never said that. Hell this is the opposite, i've ben trying to explain why the use of rdm' s 2H is a good thing and yet everyone seem to disagree for stupid stuff like chainspell raise.

You know the fact other shell do in another way that you doesn't mean it's worse. What matters, is that this fucking extension is killed.

You've said repeatedly "why wouldn't you use a 2 hour ability on the monster," and when everyone says what a waste it is you only think we have no idea what the red mage's 2 hour is. No one is saying that you should save it for chain spell raise, moron; only one person suggested that chain spell raise was a viable use for the 2 hour and they were right. You don't save it just so you can raise people fast, but it is a good option if you don't need that 2 hour later on as part of a strategy. You're attributing an offhanded comment from one person to the crux of everyone's position and that makes you an idiot. No shit the 2 hour is a good thing, that's why it takes 2 hours to cool down; but when it's part of your strategy for later on, blowing it just because you can effects the whole run unless you progress very slowly to begin with.

Since you haven't gotten it over the last 3 pages, I'll try explaining it again, but using smaller words this time. Chain spell big wait until use again. Barrage short wait until use again. Barrage better, wait less. Chain spell is waste, need later unless slow group.

I just thought I'd throw out this for fun:

Chainspell is for noobs that have no strategy !

On my dynamis LS we always have a rdm CS nuke the first Xarcabard extension

So you've even called your own linkshell a bunch of noobs.

 

[Tomasello]

2 STR, 2DEX, 2AGI...all have proven to contribute very slightly to the respective things they're based on. Between that and the fact that I can land /37BLM or /37WHM enfeebs/nukes on L60ish stuff would lead me to believe that they MND/INT -must- give some magic accuracy, as there's no way a 37WHM or 37BLM would realistically be landing their spells effectively on L60+ monsters. On their own.

In which case, if MND/INT work like the rest of the stats do, every 2 would = 1 m.acc to their respective spells, in which case Errant would be entirely better...if this isn't how it works, however, then I have no idea how a SMN/WHM lands silence on Thousand Eyes and such.

Here is what I believe:

I don't think INT or MND affect accuracy. I think it might be similar in that:

2 STR = 1 Att
2 VIT = 1 Def
2 MND = 1 Healing Magic Potency
2 INT = 1 Elemental Magic Potency

There's a distinct difference between Potency and Accuracy. Skill is Accuracy on how well you land the spell. Potency is how much dmg you do. I personally have never noticed a difference in how well I land a MND enfeeble with MND build but I easy notice the potency.

If I were to guess +3 Magic Accuracy = +2 Enfeebling, Elemental, Enhancing, Healing, Dark and Divine Skill.

Skill is also spell interuption but I don't think Magic Accuracy affects this aspect.

I get this from the merit table chart. Each Merit Upgrade is +3 Magic Acc or +2 Skill. Seems to me SE would make these even.

Again this is all speculation take it how you want. Personally for Rdms.... If I had to go CS nuke something I'd fill Elemental Skill slots > then INT > then MP if I had left over. With a 230 base, I'd rather get no resists then a 10% increase in dmg on 50% resisted nukes. You can get +45 Elemental Skill easily and it makes you the equivilent of a naked BLM accuracy wise lol.

 

[Tomasello]

Besides, its not only the enfeebling magic skill that counts. Your lvl vs. enemy level counts aswell.

Agreed, a 60 Pld can have more Def and VIT then a 75 War but the 75 War is going to be a better tank. Level is the #1 factor for anything in this game. Stats are secondary.

 

[Necrosis]

Here is what I believe:
2 STR = 1 Att

If this is true, I should have 800 some STR, no? Considering I have around 400 base attack.

 

[Uzor]

If this is true, I should have 800 some STR, no? Considering I have around 400 base attack.

He didn't say 1 attack gives you 2 STR, he said 2 STR gives you 1 attack, which is true.

Besides, 1 weapon skill = 1 attack, so 276 skill would give you 276 attack, and if you have 80 base STR, you'd have 276+40 attack, which is 316. Add some attack gear and some weapon merits etc. and woila.

I have 415 attack as BLU, and I have nowhere near 830 STR :wacko:

 

[Necrosis]

He didn't say 1 attack gives you 2 STR, he said 2 STR gives you 1 attack, which is true.

Besides, 1 weapon skill = 1 attack, so 276 skill would give you 276 attack, and if you have 80 base STR, you'd have 276+40 attack, which is 316. Add some attack gear and some weapon merits etc. and woila.

I have 415 attack as BLU, and I have nowhere near 830 STR :wacko:

He said 2STR = 1attack. If a=b, then b=a.

I was being sarcastic though, anyway.

 

[mdkuser]

Here is what I believe:

I don't think INT or MND affect accuracy. I think it might be similar in that:

2 STR = 1 Att
2 VIT = 1 Def
2 MND = 1 Healing Magic Potency
2 INT = 1 Elemental Magic Potency

There's a distinct difference between Potency and Accuracy. Skill is Accuracy on how well you land the spell. Potency is how much dmg you do. I personally have never noticed a difference in how well I land a MND enfeeble with MND build but I easy notice the potency.

If I were to guess +3 Magic Accuracy = +2 Enfeebling, Elemental, Enhancing, Healing, Dark and Divine Skill.

Skill is also spell interuption but I don't think Magic Accuracy affects this aspect.

I get this from the merit table chart. Each Merit Upgrade is +3 Magic Acc or +2 Skill. Seems to me SE would make these even.

Again this is all speculation take it how you want. Personally for Rdms.... If I had to go CS nuke something I'd fill Elemental Skill slots > then INT > then MP if I had left over. With a 230 base, I'd rather get no resists then a 10% increase in dmg on 50% resisted nukes. You can get +45 Elemental Skill easily and it makes you the equivilent of a naked BLM accuracy wise lol.

yea really speculation but i believe it works like this. yet what mishaella says is true. when i level bst/whm at level 50 i can paralyze tough mobs with like 50% success which is strange.

also about str and atk its easy to check that 2str=1 atck. same when i level pld , by swaping gear you easilly check than 2vit=1def if i recall. I believe here that STR is how high you can hit (potency) and atck how successful you can reach that cap ("acuracy").

 

[Uzor]

STR is the roof, and attack is how high you can jump. If you jump too high you'll hit your head on the roof (cap), so at that point its better to raise the roof so you can jump higher.

 

[Ewok]

Here is what I believe:

I don't think INT or MND affect accuracy. I think it might be similar in that:

2 STR = 1 Att
2 VIT = 1 Def
2 MND = 1 Healing Magic Potency
2 INT = 1 Elemental Magic Potency

There's a distinct difference between Potency and Accuracy. Skill is Accuracy on how well you land the spell. Potency is how much dmg you do. I personally have never noticed a difference in how well I land a MND enfeeble with MND build but I easy notice the potency.

If I were to guess +3 Magic Accuracy = +2 Enfeebling, Elemental, Enhancing, Healing, Dark and Divine Skill.

Skill is also spell interuption but I don't think Magic Accuracy affects this aspect.

I get this from the merit table chart. Each Merit Upgrade is +3 Magic Acc or +2 Skill. Seems to me SE would make these even.

Again this is all speculation take it how you want. Personally for Rdms.... If I had to go CS nuke something I'd fill Elemental Skill slots > then INT > then MP if I had left over. With a 230 base, I'd rather get no resists then a 10% increase in dmg on 50% resisted nukes. You can get +45 Elemental Skill easily and it makes you the equivilent of a naked BLM accuracy wise lol.

Learned along time ago that INT does in fact effect accuracy. As a noob blm, I would never use food (never read up on the job, just played it by ear), and would get ALOT of 1/2 nukes, somtimes 1/4. Someone told me to try a pie (think it was pumpkin, later I went to melon) and my average DMG shot through the roof, rarely landing 1/2 nukes, instead of frequently landing them. From what I gather, isn't potentcy BOTH accuracy and damage? Elemental staves increase both for their corresponding elements, and I always thought that was potentcy. I also was under the assumption that the thunder potentcy merits increased both dmg and accuracy of thunder spells.

And as far as what to equip for CS nuke, you seem to be right on that order. For BLM's going after something with high resist rate, it would be Ele.Magic>>INT>>MAB. You see a BLM nuking Kirin with no ele + gear, and alot of MAB gear, slap him for me, lol.

 

[pchan]

. From what I gather, isn't potentcy BOTH accuracy and damage? Elemental staves increase both for their corresponding elements, and I always thought that was potentcy. I also was under the assumption that the thunder potentcy merits increased both dmg and accuracy of thunder spells.

Potency is more damage, not accuracy. Potency= blm merits, Accuracy= rdm merits. Tier 2 merit are opposite however, as BLM=accuracy and rdm=potency.


Elemental staffs only affect elemental potency, not enfeebling. They also give accuracy to the corresponding spell, 10 Magic acuracy i believe.

 

[Skaw]

pchan - proving he's either rmt, or bought his account; one post at a time.