morrigan's robe on quetz.

[Uzor]

Not all experience parties are created equal. Sometimes there drks there but also blus and even on occasion there's a pld tank with melee x3 although obviously with the pld tank the exp tends not to be as good regardless.

The refresh was just an example even if all I had to had to do was refresh myself I don't know about you but I'm still asked to silence imps or mage mamools, dispel evasion boost or cocoon, etc. etc.

Yes, but Jamal was talking about a WAR WAR WAR WAR (replace some WAR with MNK) party, hence why that was what I refered to. You won't get as much exp with a PLD, and no offense to DRK's, but I don't think you'd get the same with them either, unless they're very good and have all gear possible. And I don't know about you, but as a RDM I never cast any enfeebles except for the occasionall dispel and silence, and Dia II. Silence is quite hoenstly not needed either, since spells will almost always get interrupted, or the mob will be dead before he gets it off, but I usually cast it for safety anyway.

I get triple digit chains as a whm healer without touching that abomination known as Regen. I cure them to full and start resting asap, no time for spells that take that long to cast. The difference makers are Cure V, Pro/Shellra IV+, Curaga III+, Divine Veil (if you're having to fight Skoffins and they Paralyga), added Clear Mind (since whms rest more), and especially Conserve MP. People laugh at Conserve MP but it activates on at least 1/4 of your spells and can reduce up to half the spell's cost. rdm/whm doesn't get that boost.

Yes, but personally, I prefer to cast Regen on people and then heal, and only cure them if their HP get low. And I'm not talking about yellow or red low, I mean lower, but not 1-hit-unlucky kind of low. Regen is nice since it usually allows you to heal faster. Basically, Haste, then regen someone during Haste recast time, then haste, then Regen II someone, then haste, then Regen III again. Makes you rarely have to heal people, unless they get unlucly with ability move and double attack or something.

 

[Bajaratt]

Not all experience parties are created equal. Sometimes there drks there but also blus and even on occasion there's a pld tank with melee x3 although obviously with the pld tank the exp tends not to be as good regardless.

The refresh was just an example even if all I had to had to do was refresh myself I don't know about you but I'm still asked to silence imps or mage mamools, dispel evasion boost or cocoon, etc. etc.

If you have a DRK or a BLU, it's not a cannon. It can get good exp, but it's still not a cannon. Unless your melee's are getting the shit kicked out of them(meaning they suck) you don't really need convert either. Ballad 2 + refresh body + sanction refresh works just fine, they could even sub smn if they felt like it for even faster mp recovery. The only time MP becomes an issue is when people are getting hit far more often than they should.

I get triple digit chains as a whm healer without touching that abomination known as Regen. I cure them to full and start resting asap, no time for spells that take that long to cast. The difference makers are Cure V, Pro/Shellra IV+, Curaga III+, Divine Veil (if you're having to fight Skoffins and they Paralyga), added Clear Mind (since whms rest more), and especially Conserve MP. People laugh at Conserve MP but it activates on at least 1/4 of your spells and can reduce up to half the spell's cost. rdm/whm doesn't get that boost.

Regen rocks when your regen 3 heals more than a cure 4 with nobles and light/healing staff. When I'm on my bard and I take the occasional hit, I'd rather get a regen and keep going than a cure. It's worth tossing a regen on them even if they're only 2-300 hp down, because if they take another hit it'll keep going rather than force you to stand back up again.

 

[pchan]

It's funny how this thread has gone to the ever canon tank discussion. Who cares lol, xp is xp. If u guys get 3 digit chains so easily, why bother discuting about what's best setup in merit ? You merit should be done already .. It seems to not be the case lol.

 

[Tomasello]

If you have a DRK or a BLU, it's not a cannon. It can get good exp, but it's still not a cannon. Unless your melee's are getting the shit kicked out of them(meaning they suck) you don't really need convert either. Ballad 2 + refresh body + sanction refresh works just fine, they could even sub smn if they felt like it for even faster mp recovery. The only time MP becomes an issue is when people are getting hit far more often than they should.

I'm not saying mp is an issue for whms in cannons. In my opinion however a rdm should be able to handle the same role, especially over time, as a whm without the dramatic decline of exp per hour Jamal is claiming.

I might not have Cure V but I do have convert which at 6 times an hour is about an extra 5500 mp plus refresh which gives me another 2500 mp extra an hour. So thats 8000 per hour more mp then a whm has access too. I can maintain 1k base mp with food and gear and clear mind 3 vs 4 is not gonna make or break anything and I macro in +21 hmp when resting anyway.

Neither would conserve mp. Most whms sub /smn anyway and a rdm with dalmatica and af1 hat = whm/smn with nobles or af2 body in terms of extra mp auto-refresh. Even if they were whm/blm I'd go so far as saying conserve mp is equal to auto-refresh anyway.

So I just don't see how a good rdm could not keep up. I 100% agree a whm is a more efficient healer when it comes to amount healed per spell but not as efficient as a rdm mp wise. I might have to cast more cures but I also have more then enough mp to do so.

That's kinda all I have to say about this. I don't really want to go back and forth about it so whatever.

 

[meastoso]

how about

my merit party and my rdm of choice as healer

vs.

your merit party with your whm of choice jamal?




oh, and we can do it after the update so you can have a suppa

 

[Rappa]

Regen rocks when your regen 3 heals more than a cure 4 with nobles and light/healing staff. When I'm on my bard and I take the occasional hit, I'd rather get a regen and keep going than a cure. It's worth tossing a regen on them even if they're only 2-300 hp down, because if they take another hit it'll keep going rather than force you to stand back up again.

I'm not going to argue Regen vs Curaga because everyone has their own personal opinion and they both work just fine. All I know is I routinely have over 700 mp, no one ever has haste wear off, and I never cast Regen. So yeah. Oh and when I'm on brd I prefer mages do nothing to me so my Minstrel's Ring stays active, unless I'm just really low on hp where a cure while I'm buffing is sufficient.

Most whms sub /smn anyway and a rdm with dalmatica and af1 hat = whm/smn with nobles or af2 body in terms of extra mp auto-refresh. Even if they were whm/blm I'd go so far as saying conserve mp is equal to auto-refresh anyway.

ARE YOU HIGH? No one subs smn, it's stupid. 20 mp per minute is NOT EQUAL TO CONSERVE MP. If conserve mp procs once every 6 spells (which is low), you're still saving more than 20 mp per minute. And how many rdms have dalmatica vs whms with noble's? Mmhmm.

 

[Rappa]

how about

my merit party and my rdm of choice as healer

vs.

your merit party with your whm of choice jamal?




oh, and we can do it after the update so you can have a suppa

This post doesn't even make sense. If you want to test rdm vs whm you have to use the same pt fighting the same shit and... oh wait nvm, this is another "lolsuppa" post.

 

[Tomasello]

ARE YOU HIGH? No one subs smn, it's stupid. 20 mp per minute is NOT EQUAL TO CONSERVE MP. If conserve mp procs once every 6 spells (which is low), you're still saving more than 20 mp per minute. And how many rdms have dalmatica vs whms with noble's? Mmhmm.

Well I suppose it would depend on how many spells your casting per minute and what the cost of those spells are. I still see most whms sub smn so maybe they are all stupid. Conserve MP might be marginally better. So what? It's still not an extra 8k mp an hour.

I thought we were talking about optimal cannons anyway. I see plenty of Dalmaticas in Whitegate. Its not THAT uncommon as it used to be.

 

[Bajaratt]

Well I suppose it would depend on how many spells your casting per minute and what the cost of those spells are. I still see most whms sub smn so maybe they are all stupid. Conserve MP might be marginally better. So what? It's still not an extra 8k mp an hour.

I thought we were talking about optimal cannons anyway. I see plenty of Dalmaticas in Whitegate. Its not THAT uncommon as it used to be.

If conserve MP kicks in on just about any spell that I cast, it's saved at least as much mp(only haste would be as much, everything else saves more) as auto-refresh would give me over a minute. So unless I only cast a single spell a minute, conserve MP vastly outperforms auto-refresh. Those white mages generally are idiots, I know of several skilled white mages who use summoner subjob, but they know how good conserve MP is.

You're acting like you actually need that much mp to be useful for a cannon, when good whm's handle it just fine. When I partied with Jamal the other day, we had a whm in the cannon and still got over 23k an hour. I don't care which is the healer since both are effective, provided they're not an idiot; but I'll always prefer a white mage healer.

 

[Courtney]

Conserve MP on a BLM sub saves you ~8% MP
Autorefresh earns you 200 MP every 10 min

For Conserve MP to equal Autorefresh, you have to use spend 2500MP in that 10 min. The question is, in a Merit situation how do you regenerate 2500MP in that 10min.

Both Balads = 600MP/10min, Refresh Body = 200MP/10min.

By comparison, without a BRD I (as a RDM) get around 2000MP/10min.

 

[jamal]

how about

my merit party and my rdm of choice as healer

vs.

your merit party with your whm of choice jamal?




oh, and we can do it after the update so you can have a suppa

I assume you're not going on your MNK...even with the gjallorhorn I accept this. Gotta try to get deci out of retirement now. Since you took the suppa jab at me...How about I go into the past on you...

I seem to remember someone whining and bitching that there SMN could keep everyone hasted, bitching that we should invite him to merit with us. Finally we let you in, and it was god awful. Never had lost a chain on deco's before that...

It's funny how this thread has gone to the ever canon tank discussion. Who cares lol, xp is xp. If u guys get 3 digit chains so easily, why bother discuting about what's best setup in merit ? You merit should be done already .. It seems to not be the case lol.

I was capped before Job merits were increased. They made the change and I capped it. I was capped STR before they made an increase to attributes. They changed it and I capped it. I was capped merits before they added tier 2 merits. They changed it and I capped it.

I was capped on Merits pre-ToAU release as well...experience isn't just experience. The best setups in merit allow you to not waste time. I get bored meriting as it is, I couldn't imagine how it would be going at a slow pace.

 

[neophytal]

not the nyzul camp, but roaming thickets...

chain 210+ yesterday til pretty much my merits were capped... and i was RDM / only healer.. however.. had the luxury of dual bard in the party (one nin sub one whm)... i was able to keep up with af2 hat, and no dalm.... although i started out LONG time ago doing rdm in merit parties and am kinda used to that kinda thing...

its possible, but i can still see it'd have been a little easier with whm than rdm... but converts very helpful.

 

[pchan]

I assume you're not going on your MNK...even with the gjallorhorn I accept this. Gotta try to get deci out of retirement now. Since you took the suppa jab at me...How about I go into the past on you...

I seem to remember someone whining and bitching that there SMN could keep everyone hasted, bitching that we should invite him to merit with us. Finally we let you in, and it was god awful. Never had lost a chain on deco's before that...



I was capped before Job merits were increased. They made the change and I capped it. I was capped STR before they made an increase to attributes. They changed it and I capped it. I was capped merits before they added tier 2 merits. They changed it and I capped it.

I was capped on Merits pre-ToAU release as well...experience isn't just experience. The best setups in merit allow you to not waste time. I get bored meriting as it is, I couldn't imagine how it would be going at a slow pace.

Ok having chain 300 is cool, but how often does that actually happen ? Everyone goes to the same camps. Cannon are not really reliable, depending at what time you xp of course. If you ask me, what kills xp is random ppl you invite getting afk now and then.

Some ppl don't even have some vital staging points to move around. I stopped doing standard parties for my merits when the ppl i invited said they didnt know what Nyzle stag is and they only had the "needed" staging points ... So i only xp with friends, in 3-4 ppl parties, 7k/H is not bad at all.

 

[Bajaratt]

Ok having chain 300 is cool, but how often does that actually happen ? Everyone goes to the same camps. Cannon are not really reliable, depending at what time you xp of course. If you ask me, what kills xp is random ppl you invite getting afk now and then.

Some ppl don't even have some vital staging points to move around. I stopped doing standard parties for my merits when the ppl i invited said they didnt know what Nyzle stag is and they only had the "needed" staging points ... So i only xp with friends, in 3-4 ppl parties, 7k/H is not bad at all.

With a decent group, it's not hard to get. When I partied with Jamal we had chain 192 I think and only stopped because people had to go eat/sleep. If everyone had been able to stay longer, we could have kept the chain going almost indefinitely.

If you don't have the staging points for exp(mamool, Azouph and Nyzul) then stop looking for a party and go fucking get them. They're not hard to get, there's tons of guides/maps out there, get off your ass and do them. That's almost as bad as not bothering to farm for some essential gear or food, except that it's even faster and easier.

7k an hour in ToAU zones is pathetic for a level 75 party.

 

[jamal]

Ok having chain 300 is cool, but how often does that actually happen ? Everyone goes to the same camps. Cannon are not really reliable, depending at what time you xp of course. If you ask me, what kills xp is random ppl you invite getting afk now and then.

Some ppl don't even have some vital staging points to move around. I stopped doing standard parties for my merits when the ppl i invited said they didnt know what Nyzle stag is and they only had the "needed" staging points ... So i only xp with friends, in 3-4 ppl parties, 7k/H is not bad at all.

How often does it happen? Everytime we're not overcrowded. I've merited or exp'd three times since coming back two months ago, and recapped exp and maxed merits in those parties. Cannons should be planned ahead, just as all exp parties should.

7k/h is 1/3 of the low-end of my output. Your standards are much lower then mine.

 

[Mai Ikari]

Ok having chain 300 is cool, but how often does that actually happen ? Everyone goes to the same camps. Cannon are not really reliable, depending at what time you xp of course. If you ask me, what kills xp is random ppl you invite getting afk now and then.

Some ppl don't even have some vital staging points to move around. I stopped doing standard parties for my merits when the ppl i invited said they didnt know what Nyzle stag is and they only had the "needed" staging points ... So i only xp with friends, in 3-4 ppl parties, 7k/H is not bad at all.

Highlighted the three problems in that.

1. Cannons are quite reliable... once you get going, steal everybody's mobs, and generally chase any other parties out of the area. Which is quite easy to do with a good BRD.

2: Inviting people you don't know and expecting huge chains. Doesn't (usually) happen, but sometimes you land that BB MNK or Ridill WAR you didn't know about.

3: 4 people, 7k an hour? That's... not bad at all? I went and duo'd Caederva Mire, MNK and PLD (this was his first time ever playing PLD, new account owner), and got 8.5k an hour. And that's taking into account AFKs and getting myself killed.




Baja, you guys need to invite me sometime. D:

 

[Bajaratt]

Highlighted the three problems in that.

1. Cannons are quite reliable... once you get going, steal everybody's mobs, and generally chase any other parties out of the area. Which is quite easy to do with a good BRD.

2: Inviting people you don't know and expecting huge chains. Doesn't (usually) happen, but sometimes you land that BB MNK or Ridill WAR you didn't know about.

3: 4 people, 7k an hour? That's... not bad at all? I went and duo'd Caederva Mire, MNK and PLD (this was his first time ever playing PLD, new account owner), and got 8.5k an hour. And that's taking into account AFKs and getting myself killed.




Baja, you guys need to invite me sometime. D:

Hell, trio'ing with you and mistra on my 67 bard got me 9k an hour even with the exp loss from me being 8 levels lower. We were doing 12k an hour trio'ing with Meaghan too.

 

[Mai Ikari]

Hell, trio'ing with you and mistra on my 67 bard got me 9k an hour even with the exp loss from me being 8 levels lower. We were doing 12k an hour trio'ing with Meaghan too.

And of course it should be noted that you don't need an empty (nonexistant) mire to do this, as in good merit parties, you make it empty. A MNK & NIN duo tearing through mire and chasing out entire parties of 75's is endlessly amusing. I do wonder if NIN & NIN will do better, once we hit 75... >.>

 

[Bajaratt]

I'm already 75, just waiting on you.

 

[pchan]

Dont make me laugh with your ridill war our bb monks .. seriously .. You talk like you can have those in every party. You talk like ... oh ok today imma do merit !

So who seeks .. oh great .. a ridill war ! 2 bb monks ! a rdm with duelist chapeau and morrigan body. I'll xp one our and get 3 merits !

This doesnt exist.