Multiple End-Game Linkshells?

[Sandria]

Is it still considered in bad taste to have multiple end-game linkshells? If so, what harm does it do to the community to have players in multiple shells? This subject came up within a conversation I had with a friend of mine. Ouside of maintaining a level of "privacy" with ToDs, we could not honestly come up with a solid reason having multiple end-game shells was bad. I've noticed during my time in "end-game" that most shells tend to focus on different things. Some place a higher focus on sky, others on land, some a small mix of each, etc. Over time I'd even go as far as to say that the majority of my own social circle is scattered amongst various shells.

Prior to reaching "end-game" I often organized events between several different social shells and it often worked out well. Mainly because those who were involved either needed to do the task or found the task enjoyable. I'd compare limit breaks, missions, and artifact quests to be much like what the majority of end-game content is now. (And, no, I don't mean how AF and limit break is done in the present... but in the past when the majority of players were not level 75 and exceptionally powerful.)

My curiousity has stemmed due to multiple reasons, however the main one is wondering if we holding ourselves back as server community with "Linkshell onry" practices. I've seen where it has worked well, but at the same time.. I've also seen where it has disabled being able to accomplish other things.

 

[Marajade]

It comes from having two shells of the same focus. Social shells work together because thier sole point is to be somewhere to talk with people, rather than game progression. With Endgame, the focus isnt on social, its on the actual events.
The one-shell rule only applys to shells that do the same thing, you can have a Dynamis shell, and a Sky shell. While they're both "endgame" they dont do the same thing, thus dont directly compete with eachother.
However, if you have two Sky shells, what happens if both turn up to Uli at the same time? Or one is doing Hakutaku for newer members, while the other is poping Kirin. How would you make a choice between the two?

 

[Uzor]

Most end-game shells want their members to be loyal. It's not only for strategy/ToD leakage etc. it's also for the members to egt to know eachother and thus work together better as a team.

Also, that events tend to "colide". There's nothing worse then to be CC'd by your own LS member.

 

[Blabj]

Like uzor, said, it's bad to be split between two linkshells, both camping the same monster.

Unlikely situation, but I'm sure it does happen.

 

[Brin]

Yea, you should have one shell for each subject. One social shell, one dynamis, one sky, one sea, one HNM. So on and so forth....

At least, thats how I feel

 

[Tymon]

land only shell + sky only shell = fine
sea only shell + land or sky only shell = fine
sky shell + land shell / land shell + land shell / sea shell + sea shell = bad

 

[Mai Ikari]

Tymon got it.

Multiple end-game shells with different focuses? Sure, have fun.

Multiple end-game shells that do the same things? Baaaad.

For the same reason you shouldn't have 2 dynamis shells. Things will conflict. Not might, will. Just a matter of time before your xxx and yyy shell decide to camp the same HNM / farm the same pop item.

 

[Lavi]

Think of a HNM/Gods LS as a job. You get trained, learn business secrets, get benefits and other various aspects that come with a new job. When you have two LS, it's more than likely you will have to chose between the two at some point and neither end game shell wants that. They spent time, effort and money(gear) to get you where you are and once you leave, all that went to waste. They must then find, train and give the same benefits to your replacement to start the whole cycle all over again.

 

[Shaidalyn]

I agree 100% with the people above, having "divided loyalties" is never ever good.. I go into an arguement with my fiance about it, specifically not me owning two, but us each being in a seperate on. That's just as unacceptable as I see it.
Then again, I am very loyal and wont even pick up a Dynamis shell while I am in my Sky shell.
An endgame shell is about trust and respect. hard to know the people if they spend 80% of their time amongst social and other endgame shells.

 

[hellstorm]

Think of a HNM/Gods LS as a job. You get trained, learn business secrets, get benefits and other various aspects that come with a new job. When you have two LS, it's more than likely you will have to chose between the two at some point and neither end game shell wants that. They spent time, effort and money(gear) to get you where you are and once you leave, all that went to waste. They must then find, train and give the same benefits to your replacement to start the whole cycle all over again.

ya what she said. Plus you would not want two sky shells anyway. The amount time you spend would be utter waste and you will grow to hate sky really fast. Get yourself 1 sky 1 dynamis and 1 land/sea if your sky sell dont do them. sociel shell can have as many as you want but you will find yourself going lesser and lesser to them.

 

[SlizenDize]

I have to disagree with every single one of you.
Sure you have right about there being problem having multiple LSes of the same kind, but that doesn't mean that it have to be like that.
This is not about divided loyaltys, it's not gonna collide with any event at all if you just do this one thing and that thing my friends is called Co-operation.

The reason why you at the moment cannot have two LSes of the same kind is simply because there are power greedy people leading them who refuse to ally up with other shells. If everyone in two Linkshells were friends then they would be able to perform missions with eachother gracefully, help out and throughout communication make sure that events will not cross between the shells. This is something that the Japanese have done since the release, they are all for team-work while we just want to have the most benefits for ourselves. In the end we lose just because of it.

It can be done but our way of thinking is the only thing preventing it. If I would have two shells I would be a traitor while I could just as easy be the communication link which prevents misunderstandings between two linkshells. I have always wanted for end-game linkshells to unite and become allies because I know that I am not the only one who have fought his way up to level 75 gathering tons of friends on the way just to see them dissapear and shatter, distance themselves only because you are not in the same end-game shell. This is wrong, it's very wrong, it's not supposed to be like that we are here to play and to have fun just the way you had fun that first day in Valkurm Dunes when everyone were still trying to figure out what a Skillchain really was and why the best job combination was not just to solo with War/Whm. Exploring with your friends, advance as a person and a linkshell or even alliance of linkshell with your friends. If you ask me, then thats what MMORPGs are all about.

However that might just be me.

 

[Brin]

The reason why you at the moment cannot have two LSes of the same kind is simply because there are power greedy people leading them who refuse to ally up with other shells.

Greed is not the key word here. I'm in a HNM LS who isnt about greed at all. Kill HNMs for fun, not gil. I would also just want to do Dynamis for fun....and eventually get my relic gear, lol.

But the bottom line is.....only a certain number of ppl can participate in these things....as...an alliance can only be so big. Now....if you were to team up with another LS, then you have to leave some of your own personal friends and members out of it......and thats not fair.

Its just best to avoid such drama and have on LS per subject.

 

[Sandria]

Think of a HNM/Gods LS as a job. You get trained, learn business secrets, get benefits and other various aspects that come with a new job. When you have two LS, it's more than likely you will have to chose between the two at some point and neither end game shell wants that. They spent time, effort and money(gear) to get you where you are and once you leave, all that went to waste. They must then find, train and give the same benefits to your replacement to start the whole cycle all over again.

- Well, that's just it. I don't want to consider HNM/Gods as a job. Believe it or not, there is still some fun and excitement left in end-game. Understand that I have put in numerous hours into end-game. I'd even go as far as saying that my characters are very well equipped. So much that there is not much an end-game shell can offer me (as far as gear). Of course until the point where I have HQ in every equipment slot my gear is not perfect by any means, but I would go as far as saying that obtaining gear is not a large concern for me. For a lot've people that I know-- obtaining gear is not a large concern.

- It's minor things like events. You have X amount of people who actually want to do something like Rostrum Pumps (just tossing out an example, however you can honestly imput any type of activity like it)- but you also need Y who has no interest in doing it. Through leadership or other means Y is thus forced to attend such event regardless if they'd rather be doing something entirely different with their game time. In some cases the event does not take place at all. And, sometimes it's not even about interests, but let's just say your Y factor is not online. Now, lets just say that your Y could be found within another end-game shell... wouldn't the event thus be better if both X and Y wanted to do the event? Hopefully that made sense.

- Loyalty issues. This will sound bold, however, should a player remain loyal to a shell if they are no longer enjoying their playing experience? I.e. The shell is progressing slower than their interests and they are getting bored? After all, it is a game and a game should be about having fun. I'd suspect that in issues of CC there would possibly be better diplomacy because there is always going to be a distinct difference between competing with a friend and competing with an ls member. And in friendly competition, at the end of the fight it is simply "Grats man".. rather than "omg that ***** got (insert mob name)". Eh, I'm a tree-hugger.. so that might bring me to this reasoning.

 

[Bajaratt]

I have to disagree with every single one of you.
Sure you have right about there being problem having multiple LSes of the same kind, but that doesn't mean that it have to be like that.
This is not about divided loyaltys, it's not gonna collide with any event at all if you just do this one thing and that thing my friends is called Co-operation.

The reason why you at the moment cannot have two LSes of the same kind is simply because there are power greedy people leading them who refuse to ally up with other shells. If everyone in two Linkshells were friends then they would be able to perform missions with eachother gracefully, help out and throughout communication make sure that events will not cross between the shells. This is something that the Japanese have done since the release, they are all for team-work while we just want to have the most benefits for ourselves. In the end we lose just because of it.

It can be done but our way of thinking is the only thing preventing it. If I would have two shells I would be a traitor while I could just as easy be the communication link which prevents misunderstandings between two linkshells. I have always wanted for end-game linkshells to unite and become allies because I know that I am not the only one who have fought his way up to level 75 gathering tons of friends on the way just to see them dissapear and shatter, distance themselves only because you are not in the same end-game shell. This is wrong, it's very wrong, it's not supposed to be like that we are here to play and to have fun just the way you had fun that first day in Valkurm Dunes when everyone were still trying to figure out what a Skillchain really was and why the best job combination was not just to solo with War/Whm. Exploring with your friends, advance as a person and a linkshell or even alliance of linkshell with your friends. If you ask me, then thats what MMORPGs are all about.

However that might just be me.

I have to disagree with most of this. First off, there have been several instances of linkshells teaming up to do things, so saying it never happens is wrong.

Second, the issue for the most part isn't the leaders, it's the individual members of the linkshell. There are plenty of people who have jumped from linkshell to linkshell, only staying long enough to get an item or two and then jumping ship to get more items. Saying you can only camp hnm's with one linkshell is trying to instill some form of loyalty to your linkshell. If you had multiple linkshells, you could leak out the ToD's which would mean less items for the linkshell that was actually putting effort into camping the hnm. You're basically screwing your "friends" out of gear/gil they have worked for, which isn't right.

Then as has been mentioned before, what if both of your linkshells camp the same hnm, who will you camp with? Camping with one linkshell, then immediately joining the other if they claim shows nothing but greed on your part, not the linkshell's.

None of that is saying that you can't have friends in other endgame shells, or that you can't get along or work together with other endgame shells. They're just saying that your loyalties should lie with your endgame shell, not whoever has the best chance of giving you money at the moment; otherwise you're nothing but a whore, who are generally looked down upon.

 

[Brin]

lol, I know what you mean Baja. I always hate that one member (and you see them all the time) who log's onto the shell and the first thing he/she does is ask for help on something. If this person doesnt get help....then he/she logs out of the shell.

 

[Bajaratt]

- It's minor things like events. You have X amount of people who actually want to do something like Rostrum Pumps (just tossing out an example, however you can honestly imput any type of activity like it)- but you also need Y who has no interest in doing it. Through leadership or other means Y is thus forced to attend such event regardless if they'd rather be doing something entirely different with their game time. In some cases the event does not take place at all. And, in sometimes it's not even about interests, but let's just say your Y factor is not online. Now, lets just say that your Y could be found within another end-game shell... wouldn't the event thus be better if both X and Y wanted to do the event? Hopefully that made sense.

I'm not sure I follow, so I'll try to rephrase it, tell me if I'm wrong. You want to get some event done, let's go with rostrums, and member A doesn't want to go. So instead of forcing member A to go, you just get people from another linkshell to do the event?

Assuming I got that correct, I don't think I've ever heard "don't get friends outside of the linkshell to help out because we're missing a few people," and I can't imagine that I ever would. Popped events aren't a big deal, and if your linkshell doesn't have enough, that's what your friends are for. There's no reason to actually have a pearl to a competing shell, you can just ask a friend in the linkshell to ask if anyone would like to help. It's been done before and will happen again. Another alternative is to make the event public, post it on qcdn and get more people to help out.

The things people have problems with you having competing shells are when the 2 linkshells would come into conflict on something. Both shells are camping the same hnm, the shells want to do different dynamis runs, the shells are doing different events in sky/sea, whatever. Things that would actually cause you to choose between the two linkshells, that's where people have problems.

Oh, and this isn't a concept that's unique to the game, companies do this all the time, non-disclosure agreements and contracts that prevent you from working for a competing company at the same time you're working for them. It's supposed to stop you from divulging company secrets, or in the case of the game: ToD's for hnms, and to help insure that you're actually trying to help the linkshell.

 

[Sandria]

If you had multiple linkshells, you could leak out the ToD's which would mean less items for the linkshell that was actually putting effort into camping the hnm. You're basically screwing your "friends" out of gear/gil they have worked for, which isn't right.

Leaks are always present. They are in every single end-game shell. Some not so much as others-- to deny their presense is ignorance. And I know you're not an ignorant person. You can always shield it to some degree-- but it's always going to be there when people have friends in other linkshells. And sometimes it's not even intentional leaks. Sometimes it is just a matter of a slip in a conversation or a simple /sea. A person doesn't have to be a greedy person to go to the aid of the group who has the claim. It's just a matter of perception-- it could be that the person is just going to assist a friend. And where the conflict is too great there is always the option to bow out.

 

[Sandria]

Ack, replying too slow! Actually there are shells that stronly push "LS Onry". Members are not allowed to do events with other end-game shells-- and bringing someone outside of the shell to the event (who might need the item or simply want to participate) is strongely looked down upon for fear of slowing the "team" down. As for making things public.. a lot've events that were once "LS onry" are now going public... and that brings me to this thread. Why not remove all barriers? The only time this seems to be a major conflict is in smaller NMs that money drops are clearly an issue. Things such as Wyrms and other kings could be clearly accomplished better and smoother with linkshells forming alliances with one another.

Hope that clears that part up. x.x

 

[Shaunessy]

Because LSs are greater than life themselves you should only need one.

 

[xKronox]

I still don't understand the logic of this discussion. Many disagree, few agree.
However, there is an alternitive; a collaberation of force, or simply put, a merge of the same type of LS. Unfourntaley is too natural for any player, NA or JP, to have a issues with another player, or hell another group in general. I know alot of us, yes even I am guilty of it, talk shit about some people, or a group of players.

Basicly, this game is actually designed to be competive, so we must get over, and become the best to acheive our goals. Besides shit would be too boring without competion. Though there needs to be some minor adjustments. No one likeds 200ppl at KB or Ulli, I know that.