Either way, having 20% Cure Potency will save you oodles of MP if you use higher level Cures.
It could be +150%, it doesn't matter. You are multipling all cures by the same percentage.
Yup. And 150% of 600 is a hell of a lot more than 150% of 100.Rones said:
Since you're almost the exact HP:MP ratio for the Cures, the percentage increase of Cure IV is much higher than the percentage increase of Cure. THEREFORE, you're saving MP using higher level Cures.
I thought you would see it from my previous post, but I see I will have to go into more detail. You are not saving more mp because of the +cure potency. This is so simple, I'm having trouble deciding how to explain it.
Cure 1 is 8 mp for 30 hp.
Cure 2 is 24 mp for 90 hp.
90/30 = 3
24/8 = 3 Equal hp/mp ratios, means equal efficieny.
Now with +50% cure potency
Cure 1 is 8 mp for 45 hp
Cure 2 is 24 for 135 hp
135/45 = 3
24/8 = 3 Still equal hp/mp ratios, which means equal efficieny.
You can use any percentage, it is not changing the ratios. This has to do with basic algebra.
X = hp/mp ratio for cure a
Y = hp/mp ratio for cure b
Z = +cure potency percentage
X * Z = Y * Z
The Z cancels out leaving you with X = Y The efficieny is not changed because all cures are getting multiplied by the same percent.
Cure 1 is 8 mp for 30 hp.
Cure 2 is 24 mp for 90 hp.
90/30 = 3
24/8 = 3 Equal hp/mp ratios, means equal efficieny.
Now with +50% cure potency
Cure 1 is 8 mp for 45 hp
Cure 2 is 24 for 135 hp
135/45 = 3
24/8 = 3 Still equal hp/mp ratios, which means equal efficieny.
You can use any percentage, it is not changing the ratios. This has to do with basic algebra.
X = hp/mp ratio for cure a
Y = hp/mp ratio for cure b
Z = +cure potency percentage
X * Z = Y * Z
The Z cancels out leaving you with X = Y The efficieny is not changed because all cures are getting multiplied by the same percent.
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You're saving mp because your cures are recovering more of the target's hp. So when you use Cure IV and get that extra 36 hp each time, that's 36 more hp the target has that you don't have to cure. So say you've tossed out 3 Cure IVs in the given fight, you've gotten an extra 108 hp from those, which is the same as a Cure II so you've effectively saved 27 mp.
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And by "the same" I meant "better than", heh.
Again, what matters is the hp/mp ratio (hp cured per mp spent). I just don't get why people don't understand percents. The extra hp from +cure potency is irrelevent to the hp/mp ratio. Look at my previous post and you will see that the ratio remains unchanged because all cures are getting multiplied by the same percent. I don't think I can make this any easier.Rappa said:
I'll try this again another way since my previous was slightly confusing.
Cure 1 is 8 mp for 30 hp.
Cure 2 is 24 mp for 90 hp.
30hp / 8 mp = 3.75 hp cured per mp (this is the hp/mp ratio).
90/24 = 3.75 hp/mp ratio
Now with +50% cure potency
Cure 1 is 8 mp for 45 hp
Cure 2 is 24 for 135 hp
45/8 = 5.625 hp/mp
135/24 = 5.625 hp/mp
Still equal hp/mp ratios, which means equal efficieny.
They all increase the same because you are multiplying by the same percentage. The only thing making higher cures more efficient is the mp costs are exactly doubled, but cure potency does not factor into that.
Cure 1 is 8 mp for 30 hp.
Cure 2 is 24 mp for 90 hp.
30hp / 8 mp = 3.75 hp cured per mp (this is the hp/mp ratio).
90/24 = 3.75 hp/mp ratio
Now with +50% cure potency
Cure 1 is 8 mp for 45 hp
Cure 2 is 24 for 135 hp
45/8 = 5.625 hp/mp
135/24 = 5.625 hp/mp
Still equal hp/mp ratios, which means equal efficieny.
They all increase the same because you are multiplying by the same percentage. The only thing making higher cures more efficient is the mp costs are exactly doubled, but cure potency does not factor into that.
Further explanation using the higher lvl cures who don't have equal hp/mp ratios. These are more complicated, but I'm attempting to show that the difference in efficieny between the curesis not on account of the +potency affect.
Cure 3 is 46 mp for 180 hp.
Cure 4 is 88 mp for 360 hp.
180hp / 46 mp = 3.913 hp cured per mp (this is the hp/mp ratio).
360/88 = 4.091 hp/mp <- This is how higher cures are more efficient.
.177 difference in ratios.
Let's spend 100 mp on cures using the two different cures (ignore the fact they don't come out even).
100 mp x 3.913 hp/mp = 391.3 hp cured
100 mp x 4.091 hp/mp = 409.1 hp cured
Difference of 17.8 hp cured.
Now with +50% cure potency
Cure 3 is 46 mp for 270 hp.
Cure 4 is 88 mp for 540 hp.
270hp / 46 mp = 5.870 hp/mp
540/88 = 6.136 hp/mp
.266 difference in ratios.
.177 * 1.5 (50% cure potency) = .266 (see they are the same). This signifies that multiplying the same % on each cure is not causing a difference in efficieny. If they were different, that would signify an exponential growth.
Again lets spend 100 mp on each of these +50% cures.
100 mp x 5.870 hp/mp = 587.0 hp cured
100 mp x 6.136 hp/mp = 613.6 hp cured
Difference of 26.6 hp cured.
Now we take our previous hp difference of 17.8 and multiple in the +50%.
17.8 * 1.5 = 26.7 (+.1 due to rounding) Again, you can see the efficiency has not changed due to the +cure potency.
Cure 3 is 46 mp for 180 hp.
Cure 4 is 88 mp for 360 hp.
180hp / 46 mp = 3.913 hp cured per mp (this is the hp/mp ratio).
360/88 = 4.091 hp/mp <- This is how higher cures are more efficient.
.177 difference in ratios.
Let's spend 100 mp on cures using the two different cures (ignore the fact they don't come out even).
100 mp x 3.913 hp/mp = 391.3 hp cured
100 mp x 4.091 hp/mp = 409.1 hp cured
Difference of 17.8 hp cured.
Now with +50% cure potency
Cure 3 is 46 mp for 270 hp.
Cure 4 is 88 mp for 540 hp.
270hp / 46 mp = 5.870 hp/mp
540/88 = 6.136 hp/mp
.266 difference in ratios.
.177 * 1.5 (50% cure potency) = .266 (see they are the same). This signifies that multiplying the same % on each cure is not causing a difference in efficieny. If they were different, that would signify an exponential growth.
Again lets spend 100 mp on each of these +50% cures.
100 mp x 5.870 hp/mp = 587.0 hp cured
100 mp x 6.136 hp/mp = 613.6 hp cured
Difference of 26.6 hp cured.
Now we take our previous hp difference of 17.8 and multiple in the +50%.
17.8 * 1.5 = 26.7 (+.1 due to rounding) Again, you can see the efficiency has not changed due to the +cure potency.
Wow, busy on math
The only real perk to using higher level cures is this:
You generate less hate by activating less abilities. Activating any ability carries an inherant amount of threat generation, added to the fact that your cures draw added hate based on how much you cure.
Theroretically, spam casting cure 2 (other than leaving no time for other things you may need to do) should generate more hate than cure 4ing for the exact same amount.
But, it is true, there is not efficiency gained with higher cure spells and potency+ as for mp wise, but it does allow you more time to cast things like haste on the non primary targets the rdm designates, and should generate less hate than constantly spamming the mob with curing and ability hate. They love chain casters.
As for simple math though, I go with Rhones on this, there is no advantage in curing+ higher spells vs lower spells... more curing+ just means you get a better bang overall for your buck, which saves you the mp. ^^
The only real perk to using higher level cures is this:
You generate less hate by activating less abilities. Activating any ability carries an inherant amount of threat generation, added to the fact that your cures draw added hate based on how much you cure.
Theroretically, spam casting cure 2 (other than leaving no time for other things you may need to do) should generate more hate than cure 4ing for the exact same amount.
But, it is true, there is not efficiency gained with higher cure spells and potency+ as for mp wise, but it does allow you more time to cast things like haste on the non primary targets the rdm designates, and should generate less hate than constantly spamming the mob with curing and ability hate. They love chain casters.
As for simple math though, I go with Rhones on this, there is no advantage in curing+ higher spells vs lower spells... more curing+ just means you get a better bang overall for your buck, which saves you the mp. ^^
To Jonas
Who the hell do you think you are Mr. I'm better then the whole server.
I've done quite a bit, end game. I have the gear I want for my samurai for the most part. I have done everything I wanted to do as samurai. I've done things far above and beyond the typical player when it comes to creativeness and end-game enjoyability. I've done merits, I've done gods, I've done HNMs. I haven't done it all, but I don't expect much of anyone has.
I am sure a lot of us couldn't give a rat's ass about your gear. And as for mine, I am sure it is more than adequate. Suffice to say that I can push 1000 mp as a mithra at level 64 should be testamony enough to my gear. Why don't you stay out of this thread? You have yet to add one decent, sensible thought to it. Better yet, why don't you just go on back to your linkshell where people worship you, you get off on that don't you?
Who the hell do you think you are Mr. I'm better then the whole server.
I've done quite a bit, end game. I have the gear I want for my samurai for the most part. I have done everything I wanted to do as samurai. I've done things far above and beyond the typical player when it comes to creativeness and end-game enjoyability. I've done merits, I've done gods, I've done HNMs. I haven't done it all, but I don't expect much of anyone has.
I am sure a lot of us couldn't give a rat's ass about your gear. And as for mine, I am sure it is more than adequate. Suffice to say that I can push 1000 mp as a mithra at level 64 should be testamony enough to my gear. Why don't you stay out of this thread? You have yet to add one decent, sensible thought to it. Better yet, why don't you just go on back to your linkshell where people worship you, you get off on that don't you?
Back to cures
There is however a small discrepency in the casting costs of the spells. Cure 3 is 2x as effective as cure 2, but costs a hair under 2x the cost... and cure 4 has twice the potency of 3, but again costs less than double. While this may be just minimal, if you want to get down to mp mongering it does provide a slight advantage to MP used vs HP cured.
There is however a small discrepency in the casting costs of the spells. Cure 3 is 2x as effective as cure 2, but costs a hair under 2x the cost... and cure 4 has twice the potency of 3, but again costs less than double. While this may be just minimal, if you want to get down to mp mongering it does provide a slight advantage to MP used vs HP cured.
I included that mp difference in the numbers. That was the entire point of all my posts. The improved mp efficieny of higher lvl cures comes from that (and the extra rest time).Ayrie said:
Yep
Yep, that's it. Sorry, eye lids are kinda heavy, guess I was kind of redundant on that point then. As I said though, maybe with cure 4 there would be a noticible increase in productivity vs the standard 1:3 cost:effect ratio, but I don't think there is much in terms of overall mp drain. The only problem may rise with an overburndening of casting smaller cures vs larger ones, and generating some heafty threat pretty quick too.
*sigh* Maybe one day I will level paladin and chain cast cure while tanking Genbu. Just curious to see how much my alliance will love me for that. I'm sure their reaction would be able the same as doing it in a level 60 party, heh. Needless to say not too favorable. I think I stopped leveling blm for this sort of thing... a lack of tanks... and the ones that are out there can't hold hate over Shock, much less a decent elemental spell. Not saying that is all of them, but there has been a noticible decline in good, skilled players at all jobs. Except melee, I've seen quite a few good dark knight's recently (even though Vorpal Scythe is pretty asstastic, poor guys, its not you, its the skill!). And a few good monks have popped up too. Just... where's the tanks?! Heh.
Yep, that's it. Sorry, eye lids are kinda heavy, guess I was kind of redundant on that point then. As I said though, maybe with cure 4 there would be a noticible increase in productivity vs the standard 1:3 cost:effect ratio, but I don't think there is much in terms of overall mp drain. The only problem may rise with an overburndening of casting smaller cures vs larger ones, and generating some heafty threat pretty quick too.
*sigh* Maybe one day I will level paladin and chain cast cure while tanking Genbu. Just curious to see how much my alliance will love me for that. I'm sure their reaction would be able the same as doing it in a level 60 party, heh. Needless to say not too favorable. I think I stopped leveling blm for this sort of thing... a lack of tanks... and the ones that are out there can't hold hate over Shock, much less a decent elemental spell. Not saying that is all of them, but there has been a noticible decline in good, skilled players at all jobs. Except melee, I've seen quite a few good dark knight's recently (even though Vorpal Scythe is pretty asstastic, poor guys, its not you, its the skill!). And a few good monks have popped up too. Just... where's the tanks?! Heh.
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Ayrie said:
<-- 60 Pld ^-^
Ayrie said:
Perhaps I didn't see you refute the claim that you had around 400 MP at the end of chains. Did you refute that or is that something you missed or ignored?
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I said this in another thread about Mabel, and I'm gonna say it again here. Some of these up and coming whm's are giving us old school ones a bad name, and I do not like it.
Ayrie, it IS your JOB as the support/healing job of the party to buff. This includes casting bar spells, protrectra/shellra, haste and regen. It is also YOUR job as whm to take off all effects of the party members including casting stona, viruna, paralyna, silena, etc. And it is YOUR job as whm to cure. If you cannot handle doing all of these things which are a part of the whm job then you need to try something different. That is why WE as whm's get the -na spells. When we cast it affects the whole party. Rdm's only get Barfire, Barstone, Barwater, etc. Blm's get -ga spells which are nukes.
Your tank is your main priority bottom line. Maybe the tank was doin' a bad job, I wasn't there, but by acting the way you did it just made matters worse. If you had a problem with him you should've went to /tels. If that didn't work, then you should've said you had to go in _____ minutes.
Lastly, I would like to point there is no "I" in party. It's a team. You each need to perform your job to the best of your abilities. Lastly, without our tanks, dd's and other support jobs we cannot level. When a whm gets that holier than thou attitude, I just want to slap them.
Ayrie, it IS your JOB as the support/healing job of the party to buff. This includes casting bar spells, protrectra/shellra, haste and regen. It is also YOUR job as whm to take off all effects of the party members including casting stona, viruna, paralyna, silena, etc. And it is YOUR job as whm to cure. If you cannot handle doing all of these things which are a part of the whm job then you need to try something different. That is why WE as whm's get the -na spells. When we cast it affects the whole party. Rdm's only get Barfire, Barstone, Barwater, etc. Blm's get -ga spells which are nukes.
Your tank is your main priority bottom line. Maybe the tank was doin' a bad job, I wasn't there, but by acting the way you did it just made matters worse. If you had a problem with him you should've went to /tels. If that didn't work, then you should've said you had to go in _____ minutes.
Lastly, I would like to point there is no "I" in party. It's a team. You each need to perform your job to the best of your abilities. Lastly, without our tanks, dd's and other support jobs we cannot level. When a whm gets that holier than thou attitude, I just want to slap them.
True Strike ^^quitita said:
I pt'd with Aryie last night and she was great... pt went very smoothly till last fight of the night...the only complaint is she made fun of thfs ; ; lol but then she said I was one of the best THFs she's ptd with so its all good^^