Natal

I'm not sure how it'd lead to bad things, but it'd definitely be easier to transition people to a full-natal hardcore game when they're already used to using it for large aspects of their games.

I just mean less people fully dedicated to the control sceme yet still releasing games under the control sceme. May have worded that all screwed up.

The option of a controller as backup may lead to people not taking full advantage of the Natals tech? Is that one worded better? lol
 
Did anyone else play those old adventure PC games when they were little? There was this era where they were the thing. I remember playing Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade... Hugo 2: whodunnit, Kings Quest, Quest for Glory, ext..

I would like to play those old exploration type games that are extinct now.

Shit, imagine a Star Trek game in Natal. You could be captain, and just talk to your crew and give them orders. Or if you walk around and get near a computer then you can control it with motion control. Any phase fights would have to be on rails... and you couldn't control the ship and all of its functions manually alone, but you can't in star trek anyway really. There are steering controls, and tactical controls and science controls separate.

OMG fire... Myst...
 
I gasped with the biggest grin to the Wii-remote remark.

I picture myself playing the piano on this thing.
 
I can see the bad thing... it's just clumsy and bad design to be picking up and putting down your controller all the damn time. It's by far the worst thing about Wii fit and why I rather just use the treadmill usually.

On the other hand there may be no better option if you want the new stuff and the old stuff combined. Like you can't play fallout 3 pointing your finger at the screen and yelling "bang." It's too complex for that. But you could just talk to your TV when interacting and never have to put the controller down cause you don't "need" your hands. Of course I might not want to talk to the TV. What if I'm more comfortable clicking choices. Maybe it'd be as simple as giving me the option and that's always positive.

Now controlling other things outside of games worries me a lil I must admit. Like in the video that woman said "good night" as the system shut off. What if someone is going home or going up to bed and I say, "good night"? Seems kinda lame.

I want to know though... how they got that voice recognition so great. That's the thing that impresses me most honestly. The other stuff is great as a package but nothing new on its own. The voice tech is something Microsoft must have been working on a while and it's not just for Xbox. It's one of those things... like voice tech in general is just awful but it's all software. So if in one instance it was better, then that tech can spread everywhere instantly. Our phones can actually "call jim" when we say it instead of calling "phil."

It's cool because I've been following Ford Sync which is a Microsoft thing which is voice control for your car, having it tap into your music and phone and GPS while you're driving. and its features are REALLY cool, like it can even type text messages for you or read them for you... but it's still voice tech which means it';s a frusterating mess. If this means that Ford Sync is going to get this voice tech then holy shit better head to the ford dealer when it's out.
 
OMG fire... Myst...

Shit I forgot about Myst, that would be amazing. I'd like to see that as like a 50 million dollar budget remake with everything completely HD and a whole world not just still images. I'd also like some of those old text games like Zork done up.

That Zack and Wiki wii game is as close as we've gotten... but, I dunno it didn't click with me like it did with most people.
 
Yeah, I hadn't heard of voice recognition on that level, and I'm curious how well it will work when the rest of your environment is not completely silent. I'm loving the idea of the teleconference through the xbox too, I just wish I had more friends with 360's so I could use it more.
 
Shit I forgot about Myst, that would be amazing. I'd like to see that as like a 50 million dollar budget remake with everything completely HD and a whole world not just still images. I'd also like some of those old text games like Zork done up.

That Zack and Wiki wii game is as close as we've gotten... but, I dunno it didn't click with me like it did with most people.
They are remaking the first Escape from Monkey Island and are making a whole new on for the 360. They're hilarious puzzle point and clicks; you might get more out of those than Zack and Wiki.
 
Not to my knowledge, no. They were announced before Natal was.
 
It has potential, obviously, though I have to wonder at an awful lot of the Milo demo. It seemed... extremely scripted to me. Which an obvious way of answering the question as to how they got around the voice recognition issues.

Outside of specialty applications though, I don't see it becoming that incredibly popular in this generation. It's probably going to be a moderately expensive add-on, which will hurt it on that front, and while the technology is innovative enough, it's also obviously not quite ready yet, so I'd expect maybe X-mas 2010 as a likely release date. At that point, at least halfway through the life cycle of the 360... I dunno.
 
You think that was scripted? I was thinking that kid was very advanced AI and that woman was a tester not an actress. If it was scripted that'd be a big deal to me. I'd really need to see a normal person trying to interact with it.
 
Yea when I considered that might have been scripted I went ahead and checked Neogaf and well it's kinda depressing their analysis... I want to believe tho! I'll throw out what they say though basically.

1) They think it's scripted.
2) They think AI isn't as advanced as shown, period.
3) They don't think the voice recognition is there.
4) They don't think he'll be able to speak, outside of pre-recorded lines, without a robotic sounding inflection.
5) They say Molyneux has a habit of promising big and not delivering.

Err.. so... even if the voice tech and AI isn't there... and I was supremely surprised when I didn't doubt it was... this still could be good for the stuff we talked about - like adventure games and such. Just means it's gonna be like those old text games when we talk with people... fumbling around trying to get lines of dialogue that actually progress the game.

But the conversation stuff we were talking about, with it recognizing our moods, and us being able to interact like mass effect and different outcomes, ext... seems harder if that demo was scripted...let's hope not.
 
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He spoke her name.

What's more, he spoke her name without any noticeable hitch. Frankly, if they could produce a voice synthesizer capable of doing that, there'd be no need for voice actors anymore.

The dialogue, and as such the entire demo, must therefor have been scripted.

Which is not to say that it didn't showcase functional aspects of the system, but I just find it unbelievably unlikely that Microsoft has programmed a Turing-capable AI into a game console.
 
You're right... the AI, the voice tech... we are not there yet. So it throws the whole thing.. tech wise, back down to earth because that must have been scripted.
 
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At that point, at least halfway through the life cycle of the 360... I dunno.

Well on that bit, I don't really see this as a 360 only thing. I'm sure if they get something like this up and running it'll probably be used for future consoles and stuff as well.
 
Well on that bit, I don't really see this as a 360 only thing. I'm sure if they get something like this up and running it'll probably be used for future consoles and stuff as well.

It depends. Like I said "in this generation". If Microsoft makes it a standard feature on their next Xbox, it would probably be more successful, though I remain uncertain how popular the use of the system will become.

It would be incredible for a select array of applications, entertaining for a number more, and cumbersome for the majority of current popular game designs, but cumbersome controls haven't slowed the Wii down much, so it's hard to say what kind of market MS can grab with the tech once it's completed.

As an add-on to the 360 though, I'm just not sure it can overcome the hurdle traditionally faced by system accessories. Namely, if not everyone is going to buy it, your market is by definition diminished, and a smaller market attracts fewer developers and less investment. If MS aggressively publishes their own games, I could see it taking off maybe, but it's going to be difficult to produce much more than party games (and glorified tech demos) in the immediate future, and that's been done before... So I'm skeptical.
 
Really? I mean, really? If this wasn't E3 I'd say this was a bad joke. There's no one who could convince me that Milo demo wasn't scripted. Not only did the kid say everything without a hitch, but there was less than a half a second between what she said and the response sometimes, and that's too little to not only differentiate between a pause and an end in command, but process the entire thing. Which means it's either scripted, or runs off keywords, a little like my interactive R2-D2. He'll light up different lights or move in a certain way depending on what words he interprets. For instance, the manual instructs you to say "Do you remember (slight pause) Luke Skywalker?" but you can get away with saying "Remember (slight pause) Luke". All the other words are extraneous. Which would also mean severely narrowly scripted dialogues. Also, in the video with the family playing it, there's no way it could recognize proper shifting when the chick is racing.

Plus there's blatant issues about controlling certain actions. How would you move in an RPG? How would you look, move, and shoot in an FPS? How far do you go forward before you stop moving forward, but not move backwards, but still be in the operative range for the device? For instance, if you're walking down a hallway in game, but need to stop moving to let traps go by, how do you stop? If you take a step backward, you move backward, but what if the hallway is at all long? You end up walking into your TV. Perhaps a gesture to let the game know you need to reposition yourself? Isn't that kinda gimmicky, and not a solution to the problem at all? You'd have to walk in place, but you can't move out of the ideal range of the device. And for things like soccer, or a fighting game, staying in one place (in reference to depth) is just awkward.

So that relegates to games where you are only moving left or right. All your sports games? You can now only play goalie. Not only that, but if you do happen to move out of the range even slightly, it's going to severely affect how the game interprets your movements.

The only way I can see this working with current technology would be to have something like what they (used to?) use with mo-cap. Sensors physically placed on the body to accurately record what your body is doing. But even with that, hell, even if they had 8 Project Natal units to 'fully capture' what a subject would be doing, you'd still run into the same forward/backward issues. And the same control scheme issues. As far as game control goes, the only possible way for this kind of idea to work properly, would be a holodeck. And it still kills things like RPGs.

It would be fine for simple rail shooters (Police 911 would be about as complex as it would get), and you could get a crude vehicle control. I'd rather be holding onto something that would give me force feedback. I'd rather take one of those cockpits from those Gundam arcade games than some sort of 'controller-less' gaming.

The voice recognition and commands are cool, and it's nice to see that trying to be implemented in a console. I mean, how many of us would kill for our console of choice to recognize "Eject"? And the conference calling as well, but these are hardly revolutionary.

And it's Molyneux, so you can take 50 if not 75% of what he says right off the bat as not being in the final product.

Even if they were somehow able to get a proper sense of control, without awkwardness, they'd run into yet another problem. I think I remember seeing this on some video game news site (I dunno which one, it was awhile ago, and I may be dead wrong), but there was a company trying to develop a sword fighting game for the Wii. They found that to be a successful player in such a game, you had to know how to fight with a sword. So even if they could make non-gimmicky games, with perfect movement control, you'd have to be able to move just like the character you're playing. Can't run like a professional football player? And well you shouldn't, because if you could, you'd be one. But have fun failing at the game.

It's also funny to see Wii bashing in this topic, since the Wiimote is a practical, actualized version of what Natal is trying to do, at least as far as the motion control is concerned.
 
Like many of you, I was skeptical when I first saw it but the more I saw the more I was impressed. Now I'm just waiting for the game developers to bring us some awesome games that peak my interest to warrant me to pick up a 360 and a Natal :D

And I don't know how it's a "cheap knock off" o.o the only thing close (and even then it's not that close) is the Sony's Eye Toy and that's certainly not as advanced (to my knowledge) as this. (that is assuming this really is as impressive as they showed and not all scripted as Malagra thinks)
 
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I suppose, until we actually get to try Natal for ourselves, we should be cautiously optimistic about this. The potential for Natal is huge, but were just not sure if it can actually be achieved yet in this Generation of gaming.

Yeah, they had Natal behind closed doors, but until we, the general public, get to try this, we should be, like I said, cautiously optimistic.
 
Well Molyeux has talked a bit about out discussion. Apparantly the game picks up on tone and responds as such. It only knows about 500 words. The rest of the time it's just like... it can recognize the tone of a person's voice when they're telling a joke, so it knows to laugh.

It could actually make for a very advanced pet simulation really. For a human I think it would be annoying after a few minutes.

Or well I guess anything that doesn't speak your language. You could have a great Microsoft support line operator simulator. lol

But seriously, you could have a game where you're trapped on an alien planet... and there's this hot alien chick, and you have to work together to solve puzzles and shit, but she won't understand your words and all she says is alien gibberish. But you can point at shit and talk and she'll get the jist of what you say sort of... could work.
 
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