Nerf Treasure Hunter!!

[The Druw]

Not his fault, or BLMs fault the majority of the idiots on this server would rather give their gil to 4 unknown BLMs rather than make a PT to own this sorry ass KS30

Quoted for Truth.

The BLM's see a weakness in the people whom play that they exploit: Something gained with smaller effort. Sure, they could gain more by just setting up a normal run. Where everyone uses an orb. That wouldn't be Easy Mode though.

Do I blame the BLM? Not really. I see it as kinda depressing people let them mooch so well. Do I consider spamming Tier III -aga Nukes alot of work? No. I don't consider auto attacking and SCing alot of work either before I'm jumped on that one. I just consider the prior the more easy route.

 

[resipsa]

Many of these predicted problems with gods/hnms might be avoided by nerfing only un-resisted nukes.

 

[Zalbag]

After this nerf its going to be all you melee's out there crying when many of you die 500 times doing DM, or loss all your ks seals instead of losing a little bit of gil to some BLM's because these events are alot harder to organize w/o using BLM's. Not impossible but they will be alot harder to do.

Besides, what Barjartt(sp) said a few pages back is correct. At 75 BLM's arnt needed nearly as much in regular parties. Most mobs excluding statues are VT and can be chained easy. Manaburn pt's become your main option for xp.

As for playing BLM Firestreak is right, there isnt a whole lot of work involved in it. Seeing the big numbers your dmg does is about the only fun part. Personally though I cant see how well they can nerf BLM. I dont think it will be to much of a problem working around...

I just hope war's and mnk's are ready for their very possible nerf. Soon everyone will be just as strong/even as DRG's!!!!

 

[Daveman]

Many of these predicted problems with gods/hnms might be avoided by nerfing only un-resisted nukes.

What about the CoP wryms? I just fought jorg, all the blms had to cannon the elementals we had trouble with only 2 dedicated pop blms, and the rest having to divide work between jorg and pops. If the nerf blm's ability to cannon we wouldn't of been able to win. And this was not a fight built on blms, we rode on smns for the important DD. BLms were most important with the adds.

Vrtra's a whole nother beast, the way it summons pops, you -need- -need- a BLM cannon, not a mnk cannon, not a smn, why? the adds follow tank and hate linked with vrtra, thunderIV, and FireIV together can't pull hate from those summons, and kiting vrtra is most viable way to kill, so melees gonna have trouble, bloodpacts too. Unless you suggest you straight tank vrtra (has never been done on this server to my knowledge)

Also read that thread on AV, that mob is all but impossible to kill, nerf blms cannons and it's impossible, at least now people have some hope it's beatable. Or the original Jlo? ks99 turtle? Blm cannons are an important part of endgame activites, weather you like it or not.

Not all HNMs need blms on the actual hnm.

 

[Phraust]

My only comments on this:

1) to all those that say "Now with BLMs being nerfed some NM's will never be defeated."

- SE doesn't create anything in this game under the assumtion you will use 18 Black Mages to win. Chances are, they create these challenges under the assumption that there will be NO blm.

For instance, the CoP group I was leading defeated the final BC with a THF, NIN, WHM, RDM, BRD, and a RNG. No BLM, and a lolnerfedRNG...

2) for BC's, Missions, and the like: You don't NEED Black Mages. Divine Might was done with Minimal BLMs, and we defeated the "z0mgIMPOSSIBLE" Turtle BC/KS99 fight several times over with a whopping 4-5 BLM tops.

The nerf should happen. If anythign so peopel coul dfinally get sight of what this game is about again. It's the journey, not the destination. You think it sucks that you will actually have to FIGHT in a KS 30 now? OH HOLY SHIT cry me a god damn river...

Instead of figuring out how to actually play using any skill, you are already spouting off trying to find the next exploit, the next quick fix... Just quit playing, you've clearly lost the point of playing the game.

 

[Firestreak]

My only comments on this:

1) to all those that say "Now with BLMs being nerfed some NM's will never be defeated."

- SE doesn't create anything in this game under the assumtion you will use 18 Black Mages to win. Chances are, they create these challenges under the assumption that there will be NO blm.

For instance, the CoP group I was leading defeated the final BC with a THF, NIN, WHM, RDM, BRD, and a RNG. No BLM, and a lolnerfedRNG...

I defeated the final BC with 4 people. It's a joke. Anecdotal evidence meant to distract people who don't know anything about that BC.

2) for BC's, Missions, and the like: You don't NEED Black Mages. Divine Might was done with Minimal BLMs, and we defeated the "z0mgIMPOSSIBLE" Turtle BC/KS99 fight several times over with a whopping 4-5 BLM tops.

I'm going to guess by 4-5 you mean 5, and possibly 6. I'm also going to guess there weren't any BLM sitting out that fight, and you went with those 5(or 6) because that's all you had on.

If it's nerfed, due to the nature of the fight, what if that just means you now NEED 10? Afterall, if BLM weren't the best, why go in with 5 of them? Didn't have enough THFs to stack for the fight?

The nerf should happen. If anythign so peopel coul dfinally get sight of what this game is about again. It's the journey, not the destination. You think it sucks that you will actually have to FIGHT in a KS 30 now? OH HOLY SHIT cry me a god damn river...

Instead of figuring out how to actually play using any skill, you are already spouting off trying to find the next exploit, the next quick fix... Just quit playing, you've clearly lost the point of playing the game.

I don't give a damn about KS30, or divine might. If the fights can be so easily exploited, maybe the thing to do is... modify the damn fight! Increase their sleep resistance? Increase their magic damage resistance? Make them move faster? Make them hit through shadows? Move them further apart from each other out of aga range? Make 1 of them spawn the others?

Does poor planning in creating a BC justify weakening the job that is capable of exploting that?

As for the rest of that, journey stuff... well.. it's a game!

My journey should be to HAVE FUN. I've beaten DM in a regular alliance, several times.

(It's not that hard. I beat it with idiots before.)

Here's a hint, 5 tanks! Wow how creative and original! Every single time i've ever beaten DM, I had... exactly 5 tanks! And, a similar amount of support, and the rest were DDs.

And it's simple.

Anything you can kill with a shitload of BLM just casting thundaga 3, isn't that hard in the first place. You can't kill Tiamat with 18 BLM jamming thundaga3 macro. Maybe you can with a shitload of SMN, but... I doubt you're for that nerf.



The question I have is. What right do you have saying this nerf should happen? I've spent my time as a black mage, doing DM (the regular way), while you were in a cave as a thief, making gil better than I could have as a blackmage. There are areas of the game where as a thief, you are far superior to all other jobs. Yet, no alliance will want to kill an important mob without getting you involved in the fight.

The one area you don't excel is BCs. BLMs happen to excel here. And you are all for this nerf.

So I say... nerf us? Nerf us both! Balance out BCs? Then balance out wryms! Balance out NM camps! Balance out sky! Balance out sea! Balance out merit parties! Balance out 3 kings! I wanna claim 3 kings! My stun should claim as fast as provoke! Balance it all!

Because you have sat here on this forum for YEARS talking about how people are not thieves, should not even be allowed to COMPETE with you down in your NM camps. You said us mages were WASTING YOUR NMs.

Well maybe, you're wasting KINDRED SEALS.

Afterall, isn't efficiency what's the game is about? It couldn't possibly be that a mage might have fun camping a NM? And it's not like any mages might feel discouraged by some thieves with bad attitudes from those camps?

 

[Phraust]

Stun does claim as well as just about any ability now.

I'm hard pressed to think of one thing a thief can do that any BLM can't. And to pick on thief in particular in your rant for doing the things that basically any Melee subbing ninja can do was kinda a weak attack to make a point. I understand your point, it's just not the point of the game.

When you have more idiots flooding into Sky, Sea, and beyond, cause they just grabbed 6-17 BLM and gimped thier way up there, you got a problem. I don't care if you did DM 'the right way' or what ever firestreak, you are the least of my concerns, you likely possess enough intelegence to just adapt to the changes. Again, it's for thing sliek the Gil Sellers going out en'mass and hunting NM/HNM/HLNM and defeating them in under 22 seconds Via an overlooked exploit.

Chances are "The Nerf" will only affect 'All BLM' parties, where melee are all but laughed at and ridiculed for "Not being a BLM". Basically SE will most likey just Up resist rates on Non-Bursted Magic, and Up the Damage on Magic Bursts. Which really would be cool.

As for your Wyrm arguement, it's exceptionally flawed. We kill our wyrms with Efficiency ans Skill, We have killed Tiamate with basically 2 SMN and 2 BLM as our DMG section(It was Hell lemme tell ya), But most of the time BLM are not our Damage section, nore are they a nececity. And when we do use them we use them inteigently. Killing Adds at Wyrm Camps could easily be be fixed by making more balanced Add parties.

I use to be aprehensive about not using a bazillion BLM for everything, in fact I had a really embarrassing conflict with my LS about a KS99 fight where i didn't think the turtle could be beaten with our settup, I was proven wrong. The world is extremely different when you surround yourself with skilled people.

From my observations, the only people really pissed off about this theoretical nerf are the people that have a very extremely large sack of baggage on thier shoulder of all the shit talking and what not they been dishing out over the years. Sorry chief, SE's moving the spotlight to the rest of the game for a while. It was created with several jobs, not just Bards, Red and Black Mages. Time to move on, and try doing things differenly for a change. What's the point in playing with a 100% chance at winning? It's like playing Cess Vs. a 5 year old. An empty win. If you find 0 challenge to be amusing or enjoyable, maybe you should move to WoW.....

 

[Westyle]

Just put an extra 0 behind every number in the game and people will be happy.

 

[alanon]

I'm hard pressed to think of one thing a thief can do that any BLM can't..

There are quite a few things Thf can solo that Blm can't. THe annoying thing off the top of my head is Cancer. A thf can solo him without breaking a sweat. I can't even begin to dream of soloing him. If I could, you best blieve I'd be pulling a vang and setp my home there till I got him to drop. As it is, I have to rely on the generocity of friends, including one in particular who has been down there with me for well over 60 pops.

Seriously, for te people that want Blm nerfed, how will it make your lives any wasier? Will you suddenly be able to beat DM any easier? No. This is all jealousy and spite.

 

[masterorion]

After this nerf its going to be all you melee's out there crying when many of you die 500 times doing DM, or loss all your ks seals instead of losing a little bit of gil to some BLM's because these events are alot harder to organize w/o using BLM's. Not impossible but they will be alot harder to do.

i wonder how its going to feel for you blm to be as useful as rngs
lol...anyhow....
DM is easy if you know the right tactics. it can be done without a single blm if you do it right.
honestly though, a nerf to blm was so predictable. who knows exactly how they will do it, but i would be willing to guess its gonna be similar to what they did last time to blm with the target building a resistance to whatever spell if you overuse it

 

[Bigboy]

I find great amusement in the fact that the most absurd thing to nurf was listed in the title. For that matter... "Fuck Gilfinder!" those hauty thiefs have been lording it over us all with their enhancing gilfind abilities! truely a job worthy of nerfage. Whats that? They fight with toothpicks you say? Look at the way they show off their superiority by choosing to fight with the most insubstantial of weaponry. Truely a degree of mastery that can only be weilded by the most debonair of toast butterers.

 

[Prothall]

It seems to me what they could possibly add to kill multiple blms but not one is have actually good DoT spells in there that don't stack and then nerf dmg on other nukes a little. Then blms do same damage on their own, but less when theres mroe than one.

 

[Sneakypants]

Gilfinder rocks. I can get like 50 gil instead of 25/kill.
That totally adds up.

 

[Firestreak]

I'm hard pressed to think of one thing a thief can do that any BLM can't. And to pick on thief in particular in your rant for doing the things that basically any Melee subbing ninja can do was kinda a weak attack to make a point. I understand your point, it's just not the point of the game.

You and I both know that argument is wrong. Discounting BST and SMN with throwing other mobs at a monster, THF is the best soloer in the game. THF is a DD melee and at the same time has the highest evasion in the game. Not to mention sleep and drain bolts.

Then to top it off, the drop rate difference. You yourself have said that non THFs shouldn't even come to NM camps.

How can you take the stances that since the odds are less of a drop, that you shouldn't camp NMs as a non-thief. While taking the stance that BLM should be nerfed in the area that THf is not strong? Is the hypocrisy not penetrating your head here?

When you have more idiots flooding into Sky, Sea, and beyond, cause they just grabbed 6-17 BLM and gimped thier way up there, you got a problem. I don't care if you did DM 'the right way' or what ever firestreak, you are the least of my concerns, you likely possess enough intelegence to just adapt to the changes. Again, it's for thing sliek the Gil Sellers going out en'mass and hunting NM/HNM/HLNM and defeating them in under 22 seconds Via an overlooked exploit.

Idiots were up in sky before the BLM nerf and will be there long after. Any fight that BLM can cannon without skill isn't that hard in the first place. Like just about any ZM mission could probably be duoed by a couple skilled RDMs.

Every job has areas where it is strong and weak. When all gilsellers did was camp NMs, they quite often THFs! I didn't hear you then declaring you willingness to nerf THFs solo ability.

But maybe THFs evasion should be lowered? Get rid of that pesky treasure hunter. Bring all the different jobs onto the NM field!

Chances are "The Nerf" will only affect 'All BLM' parties, where melee are all but laughed at and ridiculed for "Not being a BLM". Basically SE will most likey just Up resist rates on Non-Bursted Magic, and Up the Damage on Magic Bursts. Which really would be cool.

Have you ever actually been laughed at an ridiculed for not being a BLM?

But besides the point. What you're saying seems highly unlikely. I doubt there will be any area in which BLM's damaged is upped. I don't recall a lone ranger having his damage upped.

As for your Wyrm arguement, it's exceptionally flawed. We kill our wyrms with Efficiency ans Skill, We have killed Tiamate with basically 2 SMN and 2 BLM as our DMG section(It was Hell lemme tell ya), But most of the time BLM are not our Damage section, nore are they a nececity. And when we do use them we use them inteigently. Killing Adds at Wyrm Camps could easily be be fixed by making more balanced Add parties.

I know what you use for damage. You use as much of what everyone uses for damage. SUMMONERS. Find the best DD for a particular fight, and use it! I don't see what's wrong with that! What squaresoft needs to simply do is design more NMs that damage dealers who are left behind most often are strong against.

I use to be aprehensive about not using a bazillion BLM for everything, in fact I had a really embarrassing conflict with my LS about a KS99 fight where i didn't think the turtle could be beaten with our settup, I was proven wrong. The world is extremely different when you surround yourself with skilled people.

From my observations, the only people really pissed off about this theoretical nerf are the people that have a very extremely large sack of baggage on thier shoulder of all the shit talking and what not they been dishing out over the years. Sorry chief, SE's moving the spotlight to the rest of the game for a while. It was created with several jobs, not just Bards, Red and Black Mages. Time to move on, and try doing things differenly for a change. What's the point in playing with a 100% chance at winning? It's like playing Cess Vs. a 5 year old. An empty win. If you find 0 challenge to be amusing or enjoyable, maybe you should move to WoW....

The chip on my shoulder is... there are a set number of fights in which BLM are very useful. And then there's a whole lot of fights where BLM are mostly junk.

And then endgame there is a strikingly small amount of items for a BLM to want.

When you talk about "skill", there are two things to look into seriously. Gear, jobs and strategy. There are no individual components of any fights, from Valkurm Dunes to Hu'xui, that are particulary complicated.

"Voke that and run around in circles."
"Autoattack that."

When you talk about accomplishing things with low amount of SMN and BLM where BLM and SMN are the best DD... you are talking about people with Ridiils and E Bodies an Kirin Osodes. Blackmages don't get that stuff! The most coveted items we can get are either craftable and not a great step up from what's easily attainable by anyone, or mostly useless and for show.

As you've already shown, skilled melee can overcome. How are BLM going to overcome?

I'll tell you how, we'll all fucking level SMN.

 

[Sneakypants]

But maybe THFs evasion should be lowered? Get rid of that pesky treasure hunter. Bring all the different jobs onto the NM field!

Oh lol. This thread actually seems like it's for serious. omg. omg.

Definitely nerf THF evasion. Nerf NIN evasion too. TH HAS to be nerfed...I mean come one. Who needs drops? BLM get a damage nerf and are forced to wear melee gear. I thik DRG needs to get the ability "Invicible", not PLD, because we all know DRG is the intended tank here.


Yeah I'm being sarcastic. I didn't feel like reading another, "My pussy hurts, so I think another job should get nerfed" thread. I'll show myself to the door. Continue with the important discussion about nerfing TH.
<All right!>

 

[Mishaela]

You guys really are totally blowing this topic out of the water.

As you've already shown, skilled melee can overcome. How are BLM going to overcome?

I'll tell you how, we'll all fucking level SMN.

Why the f-!k did you level BLM? To be the "top DD"? Maybe you should get your priorities straight before you go totally nuts over something that hasn't even happened yet. Seeing people jump off the RNG or BST boats just because of some nerf was bad enough, but with guys like you jumping off the BLM boat before you even know whats going to happen, holy sh-!t that's pathetic.

 

[Firestreak]

You guys really are totally blowing this topic out of the water.


Why the f-!k did you level BLM? To be the "top DD"? Maybe you should get your priorities straight before you go totally nuts over something that hasn't even happened yet. Seeing people jump off the RNG or BST boats just because of some nerf was bad enough, but with guys like you jumping off the BLM boat before you even know whats going to happen, holy sh-!t that's pathetic.

I leveled BLM for SPIKED DAMAGE. Its specific purpose in how it is useful. BLM is not a "top DD". BLM doesn't have the highest DoT of all jobs. There are just specific fights in which spike damage is very useful. Other jobs are stronger in different areas! Other jobs have stronger damage output over a set period of time. Those other jobs don't pay MP for their damage and therefore don't have downtime.

You can't compare what a BLM can do in a 1 second interval to what a MNK can do in a one second interval without taking into account what that MNK can do in a minute versus what a BLM can do in a minute!

And you can't pull out the fights where BLM's abilities makes it great and ignore all the situations where a BLM is substandard because spike damage isn't important.

And quit with that argument of, "we don't even know what's goin to happen!"

This isn't an argument against Squaresoft. I don't know what Square is going to do, and I'm damn sure they aren't listening to me. This is an argument to the masses, whose complaining is in part a cause to this. To the people who bitch to squaresoft relentlessly on the strength of one EASY KS fight!

You can stop telling me to relax, because what I'm bitching about... IS BITCHING!

 

[Blackchaoshero]

You guys really are totally blowing this topic out of the water.


Why the f-!k did you level BLM? To be the "top DD"? Maybe you should get your priorities straight before you go totally nuts over something that hasn't even happened yet. Seeing people jump off the RNG or BST boats just because of some nerf was bad enough, but with guys like you jumping off the BLM boat before you even know whats going to happen, holy sh-!t that's pathetic.

no matter how you look at it SE has boxed themselves into a corner to totally destroy blm. after the rng nerf and all that people were saying "just wait, they'll nerf blm" so i went to examine the ways they could do it. element resistance building, enemy resistance increase, mab decrease... no matter what it's not gonna work out. blm was a well designed job with some well calculated drawbacks(reliance on mp). we can put out more damage in less time than most any other job discounting 2h's. but the mp is the draw back, that keeps us off the chain 40 monks get in krt. there it is, our limiting factor...
why can't people accept the draw backs as we have them? we have no combat skills, we suck at farming worse than any other job. we just found ways to compensate for it.. the way using thief and TA to make a nin tank work better was our way of compensating for the fact that thf exists entirely exclusively for the benefit of the person playing it.
we have notable constraints and when things don't die in these manaburn deal a lot of blms can die really fast... you ever see a manaburn DM fail? not pretty

and one thing i have to say to you fucking people.

[size=+4]OUT OF 4 MANABURN DIVINE MIGHT FIGHTS I HAVE DONE EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM HAS BEEN ORGANIZED BY NON-BLMS WHO WANTED THE JOB DONE FAST AND EASY FOR THEMSELVES[/size]

that's right, the organizers of most of these events, actually, the people responsible for all the things you people bitch and moan and cry to yourselves about are everyone who you find it easy to point a finger at. stop deluding yourselves, every person who supplies an orb for a manaburn ks30 is guilty. every leech in a blm DM is guilty. every person who's been in sky or sea and had a manaburn oriented set up for anything ever is guilty as any blm involved.

 

[Mishaela]

I personally couldn't care less if they nerf BLM or not, it's just really nauseating though that so many BLM are totally expecting the worst from this. How do you know it might not be something stupid like adjusted cast times or cooloffs? Taking Cure V away from RDM didn't leave them crumpled in a corner, neither did that pet depop crap or ranged attack adjustment leave other jobs piled in a dead heap.

Try to have just a little hope towards the job, if you care about it so much..

 

[Firestreak]

Yes that does remind me of another limiting factor surrounding blackmages, namely hate control.

All other damage dealers in the game can either pass hate on through a trick attack with their best attacks, or like summoners or beastmasters don't even accumulate the hate onto themselves from their pet's actions.

Coupled with the fact that spike damage, which is the BLM advantage, is a much larger drawer of hate than steady damage per minute, often the BLM takes a back seat until the very end of a fight to finish the monster off.