Nerf Treasure Hunter!!

[Kanash]

ES is 10 mins. You and another melee can't be bothered 4-5 times during the fight to save TP, make a SC and let the BLMs unload? Heck, you can do it "manaburn"(not really, but you get the idea) style, load the alliance with BLMs and see the HP bar drop and it will, I guarantee you that. A MB adds what, 20-30% damage to a single spell? Add that to the fact BLMs are resisted almost every spell and only once every 10 mins with ES do they do really do the amazing damage that brings a grin to every BLM. No no, that would be a waste...

That line right there... that kinda blows...
We've never had more than 5 BLM's for god fights in our shell, and the last few times only 4 BLM...
And you know what....

WE STILL GET THE FUCIN GODS KILLED!

and you know what else...

ITS MOSTLY MELEE DMG!




You can go hide in a corner now... kthxbai.

 

[Prothall]

Lavi = owned

Rdm has the pimp hat. ;D

feathers are gay, blm pwns the hat business.
Even without the feather... it still looks like a shitty paper airplane.

And what shitty BLM can only do damage with Elemental Seal? Christ merit some elemental magic. Use your AF hands if you gotta. It's called adapting, as opposed trying to stick your dick in a light socking and keep humping over and over.

Also, i'd like to quote this again because:
a) Its hilarious
and
b)Lavi = owned

 

[Bigboy]

Even without the feather... it still looks like a shitty paper airplane.

EXCUSE ME!! A RED paper airplane! thankyouverymuch

 

[Lavi]

That line right there... that kinda blows...
We've never had more than 5 BLM's for god fights in our shell, and the last few times only 4 BLM...
And you know what....

WE STILL GET THE FUCIN GODS KILLED!

and you know what else...

ITS MOSTLY MELEE DMG!




You can go hide in a corner now... kthxbai.

You sir are a dumbass. Don't reply again. Congrats. Every LS only uses 4-5 BLMs in an alliance max to kill any god. The point if you could actually read and comprehend plain English was to maximize the MB by loading the alliance with BLMs when a MB was to happen. The damage would be most beneficial at that point instead of wasting WS at random times or spells just haphazardly. Granted a majority of damage dealt to Gods are not from a SC or MB, but if you do try it, it does make a huge chunk into his HPs.

Kirin is a pussy, he can be killled either way easily. DM is nothing, you are obviously an idiot to have had so much trouble with it in the first place.

Beat something that someone actually gives a damn about and then talk down to me, you fucking noob.

And what shitty BLM can only do damage with Elemental Seal? Christ merit some elemental magic. Use your AF hands if you gotta. It's called adapting, as opposed trying to stick your dick in a light socking and keep humping over and over.

How often are BLMs resisted by Kirin? Quite often considering he is level 90, a NM, and you are only 75. BLMs can get about 320-330 ELemental Magic in gear alone and yet are still resisted quite often on Kirin even while only using wind based spells. This is a FACT. A MB does NOT guarantee you will not be resisted either. The only reason I suggest using ES is so that when you do SC and MB, the MB is not resisted. ES guarantees this. The added damage is a percentage of the spell and if it's resisted, it's a percentage of the resisted value. The ES again guarantees you get the full damage and full benefit of the MB. So, Firestreak, when you want to talk down to me, make sure you got your shit straight, cuz I can't be bothered talking to a fucking noob retard all day. But hey, if you enjoy the light socket, more power to you.

And the only reason we are still talking about Kirin is because YOU INTRODUCED IT INTO THE DISCUSSION. I had initially only stated it in reference RNG nerf, then you said "Who SC and MB Kirin" like it was a crazy idea. I am just trying to demonstrate an effective and team based method for doing Kirin. That's how SE wants the game; not everyone working seperately all for the same goal, but everyone working together for the same goal. It's a crazy idea, I know...

 

[Firestreak]

You sir are a dumbass. Don't reply again. Congrats. Every LS only uses 4-5 BLMs in an alliance max to kill any god. The point if you could actually read and comprehend plain English was to maximize the MB by loading the alliance with BLMs when a MB was to happen. The damage would be most beneficial at that point instead of wasting WS at random times or spells just haphazardly. Granted a majority of damage dealt to Gods are not from a SC or MB, but if you do try it, it does make a huge chunk into his HPs.




How often are BLMs resisted by Kirin? Quite often considering he is level 90, a NM, and you are only 75. BLMs can get about 320-330 ELemental Magic in gear alone and yet are still resisted quite often on Kirin even while only using wind based spells. This is a FACT. A MB does NOT guarantee you will not be resisted either. The only reason I suggest using ES is so that when you do SC and MB, the MB is not resisted. ES guarantees this. The added damage is a percentage of the spell and if it's resisted, it's a percentage of the resisted value. The ES again guarantees you get the full damage and full benefit of the MB. So, Firestreak, when you want to talk down to me, make sure you got your shit straight, cuz I can't be bothered talking to a fucking noob retard all day. But hey, if you enjoy the light socket, more power to you.

And the only reason we are still talking about Kirin is because YOU INTRODUCED IT INTO THE DISCUSSION. I had initially only stated it in reference RNG nerf, then you said "Who SC and MB Kirin" like it was a crazy idea. I am just trying to demonstrate an effective and team based method for doing Kirin. That's how SE wants the game; not everyone working seperately all for the same goal, but everyone working together for the same goal. It's a crazy idea, I know...

Have you ever actually been in sky? Because it sounds to me like you haven't. It sounds to me like you get your information from messageboard discussions among various people who are either full of shit liars about their tactics and the effectiveness to pump up their ego, or you maybe you are just half brain dead.

I don't know what linkshell you're in where your BLM only get high kirin nukes on element seal, but if I was a BLM in it I'd come running to the board to defend myself and call you a dumb bitch.


Yes, if you're going to MB, then elemental seal too, sure. Of course that doesn't mean, every MB you make would be elemental sealed, unless you skillchain every 10 minutes.

A level 75 BLM can easily have 330 elemental magic.

That's NQ weskit, elemental earring, AF hands and full elemental merits. With that gear, Kirin resist is not going to be so much of a bother that you have to structure your setup around maximizing your elemental seal at the loss of many free nukes. Then look at some of the newer available pieces like merciful cape and nashira feet. Some of the older hard to get pieces like af2 hat. You can get 351.

Before I had all my elemental magic equipment, and before I had all my elemental magic merits, when I first tried Kirin, the damage was something like this...

200,
300,
100,
600.

This is what you should expect from a level 75 BLM, with no idea kirin resists a lot, on his very first try.

Combined together, it's about 1200 damage in 4 nukes.

4 nukes a BLM can get off in 40 seconds or so of constant nuking and running. Then they can drop and allow another BLM to take their place.

Now when you merit elemental and just bring your AF hands it starts to look more like...

400.
300.
100
700

Then you start pumping up the elemental in your earring, and your head, and you look towards feet and cape... what starts to happen?

When you rotate the BLMs in a quick succession, they start to pull hate evne. Throw in an elemental seal, get a lucky, double full damage nuke, you've got hate.

Now you see, I am quite perturbed here, to fight Kirin after Kirin, almost always as BLM, and then get told by a Whitemage, what I am and am not capable of.

What you don't take into account is the damage lost by a coordinated attack. I've tried these different approaches, while it doesn't slow the kirin kill speed down, it doesn't speed it up either. And with an absense of certain jobs, an abundance of certain jobs, it will actually slow you down.

What you have, is quite a logical fallacy. You see a large chunk of its HP drop, and you see that as meaning the tactic is more effective.

Not true. The MB doesn't create the damage, it condenses the damage. The damage is there because of the BLM's potential, the attempt to MB off the elemental seal is a gain in efficiiency.

But there's mathematical efficiency, which you can tout on the messageboard all you please. And then there's efficiency lost by coordinating. There's holding back so you have MP for burst, and there's holding back so you have TP to skillchain. There's holding back as you wait for it to stop so you can chain. And then there's holding back by all the other jobs you're kicking out of the alliance while you load in the BLMs for this coordinated burst.

What the result is, you need to be perfectly balanced and somewhat lucky to make up the damage to counter what you lost. To someone who's not actually a part of the alliance that's being forced to hold back, the damage spike SEEMS like it's working, as it's very dramatic and noticable, and the loss in the slow and steady DoT(and potential for Kirin Regen to take control) seems very small. But in the end, you're not really gaining anything.

So why bother? If it's fun to you to skillchain Kirin and burst, and you love seeing its HP bar drop in big chunks as opposed to steady and constant damage, then go ahead, have a blast. But don't try and tell me it's so much better. Cause it's not.

By the way, of all the jobs for Kirin, my favorite is actually MNK. The 1500 Chi blast is a testamen to how swapping people out constantly and never coordinating anything really does work. They spend like 5 seconds in the alliance and bump Kirin down 2-3%. If you had 30 MNKs, Kirin would take 3 minutes after pops. As a BLM, I try and do my best simply to be like a MNK, Blow my load, take it down a % or 2, drop out and let someone else do the same thing. SC+MB has its limits, it can only kill so fast. Just bombading Kirin has the highest potential for speed.

 

[Blackchaoshero]

Blm can do about 5 BC's well manaburned. manaburn exp pt's are NOT the best in the game and therefore we will not even mention them as an unfair advantage.. scapegoat blm among 4-6 jobs that "burn" all you want, you know it's not a valid argument.

here's a question, what else can a blm do? we can very slowly, one at a time, with some skill and luck SOLO, not farm, SOLO mobs. i stress the difference because farming you can do tons in a row and get drops, blm have a huge cooldown time between every fight.

Blm has shit for combat skills. i can get retribution. whoopee. please, someone, point out a job to me that has less combat ability than a blm.

Blm is limited by mp. when you run out of mp it's over, you can stall, sleep the mob, run the hell away but without mp you're screwed. mp stops blms from getting an unfair exp advantage. mp stops blm from manaburning MOST large battles and NM's. when you combine that with reliance on a subjob spell to let you survive a single hit (Yes, i've been goddamn oneshotted by GENBU, wearin no hp>mp gear) blm doesn't have a whole lot going for it.

you ever see what happens when the arkangels survive by fluke or stupidity? i have, blms die.

What does a blm get out of sky and what does everyone else get from the blm being there and as they are? Blm gets Ahands. umm... ya. Ahands. maybe a dragon talon if you don't have weskit already. but that's not exclusive to sky either here.

A rdm solo'd ash dragon. WHERE'S THE NERF?! OMFG THAT'S AN ALLIANCE BATTLE THAT TAKES 18 PEOPLE DEATHS AND BLOOD AND SWEAT AND TEARS. it can be... solo'd? and you're concerned, that some people went to all the trouble of leveling a job to 75 pretty much specifically for about 4 BC's, a decent but not top of the line form of exp to die and do a ton of the work in sky for maybe one drop they need on that job. you people are concerned blm is too powerful and should be nerfed?


Lavi, all i can say is i agree with Fire. you are the most ignorant person to spew your mindless drivell onto the boards since peregrine.

I officially dub thee peregrine junior. PJ for short.

Please, go watch a ls do sky with 5 blms. personally i have close to a 60% spell land rate for 700-1k each spell which i can get 5-6 spells per round in, the ls i do sky with uses 2 swapping pt's of 1brd 5blms to take down kirin and honestly, i don't see a lot of other ways to kill him that effectively.

Heck, if people started leveling smn just for 4 or 5 endgame fights they would need to be surpressed violently for an ability to do a few things easily that other jobs couldn't... heck, sounds like some other job I heard about.

 

[Lavi]

Have you ever actually been in sky? Because it sounds to me like you haven't. It sounds to me like you get your information from messageboard discussions among various people who are either full of shit liars about their tactics and the effectiveness to pump up their ego, or you maybe you are just half brain dead.

I don't know what linkshell you're in where your BLM only get high kirin nukes on element seal, but if I was a BLM in it I'd come running to the board to defend myself and call you a dumb bitch.

Yes, if you're going to MB, then elemental seal too, sure. Of course that doesn't mean, every MB you make would be elemental sealed, unless you skillchain every 10 minutes.

A level 75 BLM can easily have 330 elemental magic.

That's NQ weskit, elemental earring, AF hands and full elemental merits. With that gear, Kirin resist is not going to be so much of a bother that you have to structure your setup around maximizing your elemental seal at the loss of many free nukes. Then look at some of the newer available pieces like merciful cape and nashira feet. Some of the older hard to get pieces like af2 hat. You can get 351.

Before I had all my elemental magic equipment, and before I had all my elemental magic merits, when I first tried Kirin, the damage was something like this...

200,
300,
100,
600.

This is what you should expect from a level 75 BLM, with no idea kirin resists a lot, on his very first try.

Combined together, it's about 1200 damage in 4 nukes.

4 nukes a BLM can get off in 40 seconds or so of constant nuking and running. Then they can drop and allow another BLM to take their place.

Now when you merit elemental and just bring your AF hands it starts to look more like...

400.
300.
100
700

Then you start pumping up the elemental in your earring, and your head, and you look towards feet and cape... what starts to happen?

I've been in sky for a year now and I can say I know a bit about it. I'd say more than average. But thanks for asking.

Congratulations in proving my point. The damage varies because the BLMs can and will get resisted. Any self respecting BLM knows Elemental magic skill will help reduce resists and that is why they load up on it for gods. Most of the gear listed is commonplace except for the gear found solely in sea. Not everyone has access yet or even fewer have those items. I would not consider those standard at all. Resists are the sole reason I suggested using ES, so that every 10 mins you get a guaranteed fully unresisted MB. That means the BLM can pump as much +INT and +mag att gear as they want to see those huge numbers. But alas, I am afraid your LS doesn't care for those huge numbers. You don't care for those huge numbers... Wait, that means you're not a true BLM. GTFO. BLMs are all about the huge numbers and if I am not mistaken, those are your own words.

As far as the BLMs in my LS, they are good, some of the best in the game, but even they will their skill cannot avoid a random resist no matter how hard they hope not to. If I made it sound like they do nothing but get resists that is my fault, but there are no guarantees without ES. It's not that the highest damage is with ES, rather it's the only time I know exactly what the damage output will be when the spell is cast.

Now you see, I am quite perturbed here, to fight Kirin after Kirin, almost always as BLM, and then get told by a Whitemage, what I am and am not capable of.

Yet further proof you are not a true BLM. All I read here is "A WHM told me I can do more damage with a SC+MB, doesn't she know her place?" when really what I am thinking is "Damn, that BLM doesn't want to deal with a MB to see high numbers which is what the BLM job is all about? Maybe he should cry harder cuz I just informed him he is wasting his abilities."

What you don't take into account is the damage lost by a coordinated attack. I've tried these different approaches, while it doesn't slow the kirin kill speed down, it doesn't speed it up either. And with an absense of certain jobs, an abundance of certain jobs, it will actually slow you down.

What you have, is quite a logical fallacy. You see a large chunk of its HP drop, and you see that as meaning the tactic is more effective.

Not true. The MB doesn't create the damage, it condenses the damage. The damage is there because of the BLM's potential, the attempt to MB off the elemental seal is a gain in efficiiency.

But there's mathematical efficiency, which you can tout on the messageboard all you please. And then there's efficiency lost by coordinating. There's holding back so you have MP for burst, and there's holding back so you have TP to skillchain. There's holding back as you wait for it to stop so you can chain. And then there's holding back by all the other jobs you're kicking out of the alliance while you load in the BLMs for this coordinated burst.

What the result is, you need to be perfectly balanced and somewhat lucky to make up the damage to counter what you lost. To someone who's not actually a part of the alliance that's being forced to hold back, the damage spike SEEMS like it's working, as it's very dramatic and noticable, and the loss in the slow and steady DoT(and potential for Kirin Regen to take control) seems very small. But in the end, you're not really gaining anything.

So why bother? If it's fun to you to skillchain Kirin and burst, and you love seeing its HP bar drop in big chunks as opposed to steady and constant damage, then go ahead, have a blast. But don't try and tell me it's so much better. Cause it's not.

By the way, of all the jobs for Kirin, my favorite is actually MNK. The 1500 Chi blast is a testamen to how swapping people out constantly and never coordinating anything really does work. They spend like 5 seconds in the alliance and bump Kirin down 2-3%. If you had 30 MNKs, Kirin would take 3 minutes after pops. As a BLM, I try and do my best simply to be like a MNK, Blow my load, take it down a % or 2, drop out and let someone else do the same thing. SC+MB has its limits, it can only kill so fast. Just bombading Kirin has the highest potential for speed.

Simply put, you are too weak. If you cannot or will not bother to work as a group you might as well just go to WoW and take your Zerg tactics with you. What I suggest and as radical as it might seem (You better believe that's saracasm) is use every advantage this game gives you. It's not even remotely neccessary, but guess what? It's a hell of a lot quicker, a hell of a lot funner, and a hell of more skilled than throwing all your jobs at Kirin. Through out this entire argument, I have been telling you this is a team based game and not once have you ever even bothered countering it. Why? Because you cannot. Just because you are all grouped into an alliance doesn't mean you are working as a team. And if this is how OH operates, you fail miserably.

You are correct, Kirin is weak, but if you cannot even use him to improve your tactics or improve the shell, you are even weaker than he is. It's not even sad, it's pathetic. What you are trying to tell me is you have the jobs available to do said task, but are unwilling to do it. You have a party, tank, melee, melee, BLM, refresher, healer. The obvious choice is to make a SC to maximize the damage, correct? We have an alliance with tanks, melees, refreshers, BLMs, and healers. We have the same working components in the alliance as in the party, so what has really changed? The jobs cannot time things correctly? The mob is kited? What? Really, I don't see how you can honestly say it's a bad idea except for the fact you are too lazy to do anything, but zerg.

What I suggested was a simple SC every 10 mins. Does this mean do nothing for 9:45? No. Does this mean BLMs stop nuke in between those times? No. Does this mean save the TP for those 9:45? No. Your argument might be valid if I constrained the entire alliance to do this, but I did not. What I did suggest was doing SC when they would be the guaranteed most effective. You figured part of that out, but only AFTER I had to explain it to you in depth. You can, if you want to, SC as many times as you want to if that makes you feel better, but I figured since this is probably the first time someone has suggested such radical ideas to you, I might want to start somewhere easy. From the bulk of your testamonials, it just sounds to me like it was either too much effort to try and SC or you tried it a couple of times having never worked to improve further and saw no benefit. Either way, just continue about your way, I doubt anything I or anyone else says will change you mind.

All I need to say is Kirin dead. 45 mins. Pops and all. So what's that about SC being too weak? RNGs got nerfed and you are still just using the same Zerg tactics as before. Oh, that's right, you forgot to adapt and still pounding your dick into the socket. GG.

 

[Lavi]

Blm can do about 5 BC's well manaburned. manaburn exp pt's are NOT the best in the game and therefore we will not even mention them as an unfair advantage.. scapegoat blm among 4-6 jobs that "burn" all you want, you know it's not a valid argument.

here's a question, what else can a blm do? we can very slowly, one at a time, with some skill and luck SOLO, not farm, SOLO mobs. i stress the difference because farming you can do tons in a row and get drops, blm have a huge cooldown time between every fight.

Blm has shit for combat skills. i can get retribution. whoopee. please, someone, point out a job to me that has less combat ability than a blm.

Blm is limited by mp. when you run out of mp it's over, you can stall, sleep the mob, run the hell away but without mp you're screwed. mp stops blms from getting an unfair exp advantage. mp stops blm from manaburning MOST large battles and NM's. when you combine that with reliance on a subjob spell to let you survive a single hit (Yes, i've been goddamn oneshotted by GENBU, wearin no hp>mp gear) blm doesn't have a whole lot going for it.

you ever see what happens when the arkangels survive by fluke or stupidity? i have, blms die.

What does a blm get out of sky and what does everyone else get from the blm being there and as they are? Blm gets Ahands. umm... ya. Ahands. maybe a dragon talon if you don't have weskit already. but that's not exclusive to sky either here.

A rdm solo'd ash dragon. WHERE'S THE NERF?! OMFG THAT'S AN ALLIANCE BATTLE THAT TAKES 18 PEOPLE DEATHS AND BLOOD AND SWEAT AND TEARS. it can be... solo'd? and you're concerned, that some people went to all the trouble of leveling a job to 75 pretty much specifically for about 4 BC's, a decent but not top of the line form of exp to die and do a ton of the work in sky for maybe one drop they need on that job. you people are concerned blm is too powerful and should be nerfed?


Lavi, all i can say is i agree with Fire. you are the most ignorant person to spew your mindless drivell onto the boards since peregrine.

I officially dub thee peregrine junior. PJ for short.

Please, go watch a ls do sky with 5 blms. personally i have close to a 60% spell land rate for 700-1k each spell which i can get 5-6 spells per round in, the ls i do sky with uses 2 swapping pt's of 1brd 5blms to take down kirin and honestly, i don't see a lot of other ways to kill him that effectively.

Heck, if people started leveling smn just for 4 or 5 endgame fights they would need to be surpressed violently for an ability to do a few things easily that other jobs couldn't... heck, sounds like some other job I heard about.

Another BLM calling me a jerk. Wow, I feel the pain. But seriously, I play BLM a lot. I leveled it to 60, I solo VTs now and again for good exp, I've even done manaburns. However, unlike a majority of the half-wit BLMs who can do nothing but cry, I am going to continue to play and enjoy the job. Had you actually read all the posts and not skimmed them, I have nothing against manaburn exp parties. They are the equivalent of a melee cannon party and nerfing one means you need to nerf the other. Not to mention I also think the only intention is to nerf -ga spells and that is it. If you can do nothing, but complain about something that no one has any concrete evidence as to what the intentions of the nerf are or how they will effect the game, then quit now. It's not worth wasting any further breath over.

BLMs are amazing farmers given good resources and some thought as to what to kill. They have the amazing nack for soloing high level mobs which have a higher drop frequency (usually) and obtain materials which normally take a small group. You can even consider mining. The WHM sub allows you to mine safely in any area plus the addition of buffs/stun/sleep almost assure your safety. These are all options available to you and manaburning was never the only option you had. Soloing is farming by any and all standards except maybe your own. I am a WHM main. Do you mean to tell me with the weakest attack(both in melee and magic) rating of all jobs that I cannot physically farm? I cannot manaburn like a BLM either, does that mean I am poor too? I know, I probably buy gil. :shok:


BLM
acknowledged one of the most powerful
acknowledged that 6 blm can pwn, but not necessary how they envisioned it
try to make it so they play in regular parties more
but giving them more spells to "compensate" so it doesn't seem they are picking on blm

Let me leave all to think about this last part in bold. Every single BLM has focused on the fact that SE is going to nerf manaburn in some shape or form, but no one knows for sure exactly how or exactly why either. All of you intend of focusing your intentions on the nerf and everyone skims over the more spells added. This means that in some way BLMs are going to get something to compensate for the loss. Could this mean that BLMs are now going to become so powerful Kirin just dies looking at them? Who knows, maybe they will. But I for one am going to wait until AFTER the update to make my decision as to whether the nerf was entirely good or bad. I know SE seems to have a bad track record when it comes to these things, but considering the recent banning of gil sellers and their attempts to appease gamers more, I am having a little more faith in them than 9 months ago when they nerfed rangers.

 

[Kanash]

You sir are a dumbass. Don't reply again. Congrats. Every LS only uses 4-5 BLMs in an alliance max to kill any god. The point if you could actually read and comprehend plain English was to maximize the MB by loading the alliance with BLMs when a MB was to happen. The damage would be most beneficial at that point instead of wasting WS at random times or spells just haphazardly. Granted a majority of damage dealt to Gods are not from a SC or MB, but if you do try it, it does make a huge chunk into his HPs.


Lol dumbass? That gotta make you the president of the dumbass club.

You do know of the tactic, by changing out a BLM who is outta MP for one with full right?
Thats what LS's do when they have a good 10 or more BLM in their god LS.
And yes, they actually do exist.
Your talking about "Loading the alliance with BLM's for a MB"... to me, that sounds like 18 BLM alliance.
Afterall, you've been bitching about 18 BLM doing this and that.

 

[Firestreak]

I've been in sky for a year now and I can say I know a bit about it. I'd say more than average. But thanks for asking.

Congratulations in proving my point. The damage varies because the BLMs can and will get resisted. Any self respecting BLM knows Elemental magic skill will help reduce resists and that is why they load up on it for gods. Most of the gear listed is commonplace except for the gear found solely in sea. Not everyone has access yet or even fewer have those items. I would not consider those standard at all. Resists are the sole reason I suggested using ES, so that every 10 mins you get a guaranteed fully unresisted MB. That means the BLM can pump as much +INT and +mag att gear as they want to see those huge numbers. But alas, I am afraid your LS doesn't care for those huge numbers. You don't care for those huge numbers... Wait, that means you're not a true BLM. GTFO. BLMs are all about the huge numbers and if I am not mistaken, those are your own words.

But madam dumbass, you're not using elemental seal every 10 minutes when you skillchain. And even with elemental seal, If you do, then your elemental seals are not all going into skillchains. And nO you're not guaranteed a total nonresist, especially if you start loading yourself up with M.attack and INT. Quite the opposite.

The problem is you're trying to get a guarantee on a single nuke, and as you said before, there's no guarantee. The likelyhood is much higher you'll get up there, but you're having a little trouble with the definition of "unresisted". If you consider a 700 dmg Aeroga 3 as unresisted yet agian, you don't know what the hell you're talking about. When even elemental seal can only be counted as a fraction of its normal damage on a monster, you don't want to be loading up on attack.

The best thing you can do is try and deal as much damage as possible with your time in the alliance, which means getting in and jamming down on your nuke macros and trying to deal as much damage as possible and then dropping, letting another guy in.

As far as the BLMs in my LS, they are good, some of the best in the game, but even they will their skill cannot avoid a random resist no matter how hard they hope not to. If I made it sound like they do nothing but get resists that is my fault, but there are no guarantees without ES. It's not that the highest damage is with ES, rather it's the only time I know exactly what the damage output will be when the spell is cast.

And what linkshell is this, praytell?

Yet further proof you are not a true BLM. All I read here is "A WHM told me I can do more damage with a SC+MB, doesn't she know her place?" when really what I am thinking is "Damn, that BLM doesn't want to deal with a MB to see high numbers which is what the BLM job is all about? Maybe he should cry harder cuz I just informed him he is wasting his abilities."

Sounds to me more like a person who's tried one tactic alone because it looks good on paper when you add up to advantages and ignore the disadvantages and hasn't really compared any alternative methods to me. For proof of the efficiency of simply spamming damage, since you are close minded and I'm sure you'd never try an alternative method, maybe one day you'll find yourself in a rampage/jin spam party. Watch carefully if the Warriors and Ninjas try and pair off together and see if they try and make a skillchain together. Notice how they never do and take note why. Many of the same reasons why are not only present in Kirin but magnified 10 fold because of the delays inherant in skillchaining a kited mob. And yet the best exp in the game is from simply spamming as soon as you get TP. But I suppose you go into one of those parties, demand they skillchain so they "live up to their full potential" and then smile condescendingly happy with yourself as they lose the ability to chain nonstop.

Simply put, you are too weak. If you cannot or will not bother to work as a group you might as well just go to WoW and take your Zerg tactics with you. What I suggest and as radical as it might seem (You better believe that's saracasm) is use every advantage this game gives you. It's not even remotely neccessary, but guess what? It's a hell of a lot quicker, a hell of a lot funner, and a hell of more skilled than throwing all your jobs at Kirin. Through out this entire argument, I have been telling you this is a team based game and not once have you ever even bothered countering it. Why? Because you cannot. Just because you are all grouped into an alliance doesn't mean you are working as a team. And if this is how OH operates, you fail miserably.

You are correct, Kirin is weak, but if you cannot even use him to improve your tactics or improve the shell, you are even weaker than he is. It's not even sad, it's pathetic. What you are trying to tell me is you have the jobs available to do said task, but are unwilling to do it. You have a party, tank, melee, melee, BLM, refresher, healer. The obvious choice is to make a SC to maximize the damage, correct? We have an alliance with tanks, melees, refreshers, BLMs, and healers. We have the same working components in the alliance as in the party, so what has really changed? The jobs cannot time things correctly? The mob is kited? What? Really, I don't see how you can honestly say it's a bad idea except for the fact you are too lazy to do anything, but zerg.

What I suggested was a simple SC every 10 mins. Does this mean do nothing for 9:45? No. Does this mean BLMs stop nuke in between those times? No. Does this mean save the TP for those 9:45? No. Your argument might be valid if I constrained the entire alliance to do this, but I did not. What I did suggest was doing SC when they would be the guaranteed most effective. You figured part of that out, but only AFTER I had to explain it to you in depth. You can, if you want to, SC as many times as you want to if that makes you feel better, but I figured since this is probably the first time someone has suggested such radical ideas to you, I might want to start somewhere easy. From the bulk of your testamonials, it just sounds to me like it was either too much effort to try and SC or you tried it a couple of times having never worked to improve further and saw no benefit. Either way, just continue about your way, I doubt anything I or anyone else says will change you mind.

All I need to say is Kirin dead. 45 mins. Pops and all. So what's that about SC being too weak? RNGs got nerfed and you are still just using the same Zerg tactics as before. Oh, that's right, you forgot to adapt and still pounding your dick into the socket. GG.

Being that you ignored the several page argument about this before, and are asking for a skillchain only every 10 minutes, then I have no problem with this. If you read back, our friend Masterorion claims the only way to kill Kirin is skillchaining once or twice around loop around the room.

If you do this skillchain MB only every 10 minutes, and you do a coordinated SC + MB then, to be truly honest, I don't see it as making a very big difference either way. Kirin's a big mob with a lot of HP. Dealing an extra 100 damage per BLM every 10 minutes is not going to make the greatest difference. Especially when it means 2 DDs who are next on skillchain can't be used for potentially several minutes so that the BLMs don't waste elemental seal by waiting to it. The best youc an really say is you make 500 or so damage net. Which is, if you consider the entirety of the fightm 500 dmg every 10 minutes isn't nothing. You're just looking at the damage spike and seeing a lot of damage at once meaning all that damage is there just because the tactic, when it's there because the elemental seal.

I don't see the real advantage here as a BLM. The only people here who have been arguing this are people who are unaffected by it; A paladin, a whitemage and a monk. I've yet to see any DDs here who fight Kirin consistantly attribute great success to the SC + MB on it.

I don't need to use Kirin to improve my tactics, my shell actually fights all the mobs that the SC + MB are useful for, mainly unkited ones. We haven't even fought a Kirin in 3 weeks.

But Kirin dead in 45 mins? Yeah, I'll believe that's regular for you. When's the next Kirin you're fighting? I'd love to see how long that takes you, as just a random Kirin selected instead of your best ever.

 

[Firestreak]

Simply put, you are too weak. If you cannot or will not bother to work as a group you might as well just go to WoW and take your Zerg tactics with you. What I suggest and as radical as it might seem (You better believe that's saracasm) is use every advantage this game gives you. It's not even remotely neccessary, but guess what? It's a hell of a lot quicker, a hell of a lot funner, and a hell of more skilled than throwing all your jobs at Kirin. Through out this entire argument, I have been telling you this is a team based game and not once have you ever even bothered countering it. Why? Because you cannot. Just because you are all grouped into an alliance doesn't mean you are working as a team. And if this is how OH operates, you fail miserably.

What I suggested was a simple SC every 10 mins. Does this mean do nothing for 9:45? No. Does this mean BLMs stop nuke in between those times? No. Does this mean save the TP for those 9:45? No. Your argument might be valid if I constrained the entire alliance to do this, but I did not. What I did suggest was doing SC when they would be the guaranteed most effective.

I just would like to point out I think that these two paragraphs are in the same post is hilarious. You tell me to go to WoW, you say me linkshell doesn't work as a team, you call my linkshell a failure(which has accomplished by far more than any other linkshell except JDA and Kaizen - and in only a year of existance). and then you tack on at the end you do exactly what we do except for a single skillchain every 10 minutes.

Whoooopeedeedo. What, are you one of those people who take a huge dump in the toilet, turn over, lean down and take a big whiff because that's how much you just love yourself?

 

[Sirelrohir]

Well, lavi is right about one thing (no sarcasm by the way):

As far as the BLMs in my LS, they are good, some of the best in the game

As far as farming goes, yes alot of mobs can be solo'd. But, I'm sorry, when it takes 5 minutes to solo a mob, with another 2 minutes of resting to regain mp, that isnt good farming. The time is much better spent, dare I say it, doing ks30 for people that choose to spend their seals in that way!

Oh, and whm have a much higher melee attack the blm do.

 

[Lavi]

Lol dumbass? That gotta make you the president of the dumbass club.

You do know of the tactic, by changing out a BLM who is outta MP for one with full right?
Thats what LS's do when they have a good 10 or more BLM in their god LS.
And yes, they actually do exist.
Your talking about "Loading the alliance with BLM's for a MB"... to me, that sounds like 18 BLM alliance.
Afterall, you've been bitching about 18 BLM doing this and that.

Good comeback. What are you, still 10? Manaburn implies only using a BLM and just nuking. This is nothing of the sort and that is why I called it manaburn style because it's similar, but not. You are loading the alliance with BLMs for a MB to boost the output of the SC and MB at one time. Nothing more, nothing less. There is still a tank, still melees and a large portion of BLMs or if you want to diversify, SMNs too, but the key point is they function as a TEAM. If that part is entirely lost on you, which it seams it is, then the shoot fits so wear it.

But madam dumbass, you're not using elemental seal every 10 minutes when you skillchain. And even with elemental seal, If you do, then your elemental seals are not all going into skillchains. And nO you're not guaranteed a total nonresist, especially if you start loading yourself up with M.attack and INT. Quite the opposite.

The problem is you're trying to get a guarantee on a single nuke, and as you said before, there's no guarantee. The likelyhood is much higher you'll get up there, but you're having a little trouble with the definition of "unresisted". If you consider a 700 dmg Aeroga 3 as unresisted yet agian, you don't know what the hell you're talking about. When even elemental seal can only be counted as a fraction of its normal damage on a monster, you don't want to be loading up on attack.

The best thing you can do is try and deal as much damage as possible with your time in the alliance, which means getting in and jamming down on your nuke macros and trying to deal as much damage as possible and then dropping, letting another guy in.

I am not even sure where to go with this. Are you not understanding ES? Maybe you assumed I meant loading up on INT and mag att gear the whole fight and not for the one guaranteed non-resist which would then negate the need for elemental magic skill? Do you even seriously play BLM? Sounds to me like you are just stupid plain and simple. Please inform me how using ES on a MB is weakening it? ES guarantees no resist. That means that is the highest amount of damage the spell can output will be outputted. Once again that means you will get more out of the MB than if you were to not use ES and get resisted. To add to this, since you plan on using ES, you can add INT and mag att gear to boost damage since there is no need to worry about resists.

Sounds to me more like a person who's tried one tactic alone because it looks good on paper when you add up to advantages and ignore the disadvantages and hasn't really compared any alternative methods to me. For proof of the efficiency of simply spamming damage, since you are close minded and I'm sure you'd never try an alternative method, maybe one day you'll find yourself in a rampage/jin spam party. Watch carefully if the Warriors and Ninjas try and pair off together and see if they try and make a skillchain together. Notice how they never do and take note why. Many of the same reasons why are not only present in Kirin but magnified 10 fold because of the delays inherant in skillchaining a kited mob. And yet the best exp in the game is from simply spamming as soon as you get TP. But I suppose you go into one of those parties, demand they skillchain so they "live up to their full potential" and then smile condescendingly happy with yourself as they lose the ability to chain nonstop.

Yet again your argument holds no water here. BLMs are free to continuously attack as they chose and so are melees. The only difference is this is a KITED mob. Melee often have to wait until Kirin is stopped and casting to safely use a WS for fear of losing TP. Wow, an opportunity presents itself. They can build TP while it is being kited and then use the opportunity as it stops to SC. The reason *gulp* cannons do not use SC as you have stated is correct. Cannons are more beneficial to just expend the TP to get another WS sooner instead of conserving it, but that is not the only reason. There are no BLMs in a cannon greatly lessening the need for a SC. So when you get a BLM into your NIN, MNK, WAR cannon, I'll start to listen to your failed logic, but until then...

Being that you ignored the several page argument about this before, and are asking for a skillchain only every 10 minutes, then I have no problem with this. If you read back, our friend Masterorion claims the only way to kill Kirin is skillchaining once or twice around loop around the room.

If you do this skillchain MB only every 10 minutes, and you do a coordinated SC + MB then, to be truly honest, I don't see it as making a very big difference either way. Kirin's a big mob with a lot of HP. Dealing an extra 100 damage per BLM every 10 minutes is not going to make the greatest difference. Especially when it means 2 DDs who are next on skillchain can't be used for potentially several minutes so that the BLMs don't waste elemental seal by waiting to it. The best youc an really say is you make 500 or so damage net. Which is, if you consider the entirety of the fightm 500 dmg every 10 minutes isn't nothing. You're just looking at the damage spike and seeing a lot of damage at once meaning all that damage is there just because the tactic, when it's there because the elemental seal.

I don't see the real advantage here as a BLM. The only people here who have been arguing this are people who are unaffected by it; A paladin, a whitemage and a monk. I've yet to see any DDs here who fight Kirin consistantly attribute great success to the SC + MB on it.

I don't need to use Kirin to improve my tactics, my shell actually fights all the mobs that the SC + MB are useful for, mainly unkited ones. We haven't even fought a Kirin in 3 weeks.

But Kirin dead in 45 mins? Yeah, I'll believe that's regular for you. When's the next Kirin you're fighting? I'd love to see how long that takes you, as just a random Kirin selected instead of your best ever.

MB will add an extra 200+ damager per BLM. 5+ BLMs adds a minimum 1000 damage. But more is better. Like I said, load the alliance with BLMs and make the most out of this opportunity and it can be very effective, you just don't see the merit and will not try it. To each his own, I guess. ES has nothing to do with timing a SC in any circumstance; however, I am just giving you a stepping stone into how much of a dent creating a SC will do. This will maximize the potential damage of all the BLMs at one time and if you can coordinate the alliance to do that, you will see a huge reward on this opportunity. Granted, the first few time, timing of getting members into the alliance, the SC and the BLMs getting ready for a MB will be difficult, but anyone worth their salt who tries and works to improve it, will know it is beneficial. By no means was it ever meant to base the entire SC or MBs around ES, it was merely a beginning step so you could see the most out of what a SC can do.

I just would like to point out I think that these two paragraphs are in the same post is hilarious. You tell me to go to WoW, you say me linkshell doesn't work as a team, you call my linkshell a failure(which has accomplished by far more than any other linkshell except JDA and Kaizen - and in only a year of existance). and then you tack on at the end you do exactly what we do except for a single skillchain every 10 minutes.

Whoooopeedeedo. What, are you one of those people who take a huge dump in the toilet, turn over, lean down and take a big whiff because that's how much you just love yourself?

Once again, my LS doesn't use these tactics to the complete extent; I am only trying to provide you slight glimps into what you are truly missing. I figured a man with no skill such as yourself who sees no merit in a MB after spending 75 levels doing nothing but MBs to get the best exp would be best at starting simple. But if that is too much, just try for one MB every fight. See how well that works out and you can work harder next time.

As far as OH goes, I do not give credit to any LS who has to resort to buying mercenaries to defeat Jorg as very skilled. GG. Maybe if I have enough gil, I can buy Kaizen to defeat Vrtra or Tiamat for me too...

 

[Sirelrohir]

There is no need to start name calling on ls' just because they use different tactics on an easy mob. Everyone does things differently, so what?

As far as jorm goes, well, its a mob that isnt manaburnable, and it seems like you are faulting OH for getting people to help them, which, according to you, is the point of the game. If you want to flame firestreak, then do so, but there is no need to make this an ls vs ls flame.

 

[Lavi]

There is no need to start name calling on ls' just because they use different tactics on an easy mob. Everyone does things differently, so what?

As far as jorm goes, well, its a mob that isnt manaburnable, and it seems like you are faulting OH for getting people to help them, which, according to you, is the point of the game. If you want to flame firestreak, then do so, but there is no need to make this an ls vs ls flame.

No, Firestreak wanted to up his e-penis by saying his LS was greater than others and making a point of naming Kaizen. I don't remember Kaizen ever needing to purchase mercs to defeat any of the big wyrms. Besides that, how can he even say he defeated it when OH purchased players to do it? That's like me saying I helped defeat Tiamat because I tossed a cure to someone who did kill Tiamat.

 

[Prothall]

Lavi, first of all i'd like to say that ES is not a guarantee. It doesnt work 100% every time even at level 60 with AF gloves and capped elemental magic.
Second, I don't know what you do, but when i am magic bursting I am in essence waiting around not casting something while I am waiting for the skillchain. There is not 100% coordination between the melees and the mages so you can't cast a spell because then they may start the sc and you will miss the burst. So if you have all 10blms or w/e waiting around for that extra few seconds every skillchain its going to slow you down. So my question to you is this: is that extra few seconds worth 200 damage or so(only for the ones that aren't resisted) per black mage? Its not only the damage the blm could be doing during that time, but the opportunity cost of someone sitting around outside of alliance. So my question is this: could a black mage and a melee do that 200 damage together on average over a few seconds? YES now add up that time over the entire fight and see what happens.

 

[Prothall]

(which has accomplished by far more than any other linkshell except JDA and Kaizen - and in only a year of existance).

No, Firestreak wanted to up his e-penis by saying his LS was greater than others and making a point of naming Kaizen. I don't remember Kaizen ever needing to purchase mercs to defeat any of the big wyrms. Besides that, how can he even say he defeated it when OH purchased players to do it? That's like me saying I helped defeat Tiamat because I tossed a cure to someone who did kill Tiamat.

Lavi did you read his post?

 

[Sirelrohir]

No, Firestreak wanted to up his e-penis by saying his LS was greater than others and making a point of naming Kaizen. I don't remember Kaizen ever needing to purchase mercs to defeat any of the big wyrms. Besides that, how can he even say he defeated it when OH purchased players to do it? That's like me saying I helped defeat Tiamat because I tossed a cure to someone who did kill Tiamat.

Well, if they organized the run and somehow got people to help them, (i dont know if they paid or w/e) then i would have to disagree. They took the initiative to figure out a way to kill it. If they had to get some people to help (probably smn... GIMP EM!!!!) then so be it.

 

[Lavi]

Lavi did you read his post?

LOL I misread it, but none the less what I said still is true. :crazy:

 

[Kanash]

Good comeback. What are you, still 10? Manaburn implies only using a BLM and just nuking. This is nothing of the sort and that is why I called it manaburn style because it's similar, but not. You are loading the alliance with BLMs for a MB to boost the output of the SC and MB at one time. Nothing more, nothing less. There is still a tank, still melees and a large portion of BLMs or if you want to diversify, SMNs too, but the key point is they function as a TEAM. If that part is entirely lost on you, which it seams it is, then the shoot fits so wear it.

I have to dissapoint you, no I'm not 10.
But lemme get this straight..... You want to stop kiting a Huge tier 4 -aga casting, hard and fast hitting, abillity spamming God, to setup a SC for BLM's to do an MB, wich are not guarenteed to be unresisted, even with ES.... Have fun and GL...