Next update on EXP

Firestreak said:
This thread is spinning its tires. And I love how the only people that get any response, on either side, are the emotional ones that piss and moan. Rolling Eyes

If you can't beat them, join them. Here's some emotion you can pay attention to and actually understand, since logic stepped out pages ago.
Picking out one well put together thought out of the many pointless ones is a task I'm not interested in.
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I agree... but for the most part, people have been coming at me, and I've been trying to point out they aren't making logical sense...

You're right. Many people aren't making much sense here.

To the truly jealous ones, I will see you at 75, sky, Gods, and all that you hold dear.

My precious!!! Boo-friggin'-hoo. Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad
Whiners.

When I get there, I'll show you how I perform at a level of 70, although my status shows 75 and I have the abilities to match. Wink
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Being as I'm sure this is directed at me, I'm not particulary sure what it is I've got to be jealous about. And I'm not crying about it. I said what I felt, people argued against me. I argued back. Give me a fuckin' break. Having an opinion that doesn't = yours apparently = whining?

It is partially directed at you, yes. And looking at your "equation", I can see you've either missed the point, taken it the wrong way, or just too personally. Although it is partially directed at you, I'd just ignore it. It is interesting that my logical, serious statements get no feedback. Then I joke about how emotional responses are the only ones that get responses in this thread, I post one in sarcastic fashion, and I get my quickest response yet...And it's so riddled with wit, too. I should be so lucky to be having this discussion.

This is a classic pattern of the QCDN debates I'm witnessing. I say something that is gererally an unpopular opinion. People disagree with me. People argue against me. I am labeled a "whiner" for arguing back. All in all this change doesn't matter a particulary high amount to me, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with people who think it's a good thing.

What do you want me to say, sorry for not backing down when I believe something?

No one is looking at you to back down in your belief of anything, but just because you are blunt doesn't mean you speak the truth. People offering a flipside to your point of view (myself included) have asked questions and have repeatedly asked for clarification of some of what you meant. Mostly, you seem to answer to what you choose, go after a weak link, ignore what you can't respond to, or otherwise wordsmith your statements to gloss over and dismiss others' opinions. The only reason, after 20 pages of nonsense, I'd consider throwing out "whiner", is so much has gone ignored yet you are so set in your reasons...It reeks of Type A personality...And after all that's been said, you still feel that this update will ruin the end game in the ways you've mentioned?

At worst, there will be some truth to what you've said, and I don't doubt that there will be. But, SE will release new updates to continually address new issues. A new expansion pack could also focus on end game opportunities, so as to deal with overcrowding. Anything that actually becomes a problem in this game, will be dealt with if it is actually a problem.

I agree this thread is old and tired, and I think now we aren't even discussing what we should be.
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Sneaky's comments in red
 
hehe... a noob can and will still get to 75.. just takes time. All things take time.. people need patience.
 
I'm not seeing this endgame saturation that everyone laments. I've seen a linkshell try to gear up for endgame activities only to stall for lack of support. In addition, I've read about dynamis runs not filling and even aborting for lack of support. HNMs are a noted exception, and Square Enix should have never made the mistake of having them pop so daggum predictably. HNMs aren't the game. Gods aren't the game.

It couldn't hurt the game to make leveling a tad faster. The game is in the maintenance phase, clearly. There's no position to be threatened if you already argue that it's saturated. Any more saturation won't affect the system. And if you don't argue that it's saturated, then we need more high levelers to choose from.

Right now people are forced to recruit by job and role. Looking for black mages. We need mages. We need summoners. Stunners needed. Rangers apply now. It'd be nice if people could actually recruit not by role, but by person. As soon as you start taking who you want and not who you need, then you can talk about the features reaching saturation.

Otherwise, shoot PoL messages asking for an increase in endgame content to match the shift to higher average levels within the game. They'll listen. Personally I think HNMs all need to be shifted to bidaily pops due to the shift in game demographics. Same way with god spawn items. But until I send a message to the developers and get ignored, that's tough luck.
 
I still wanna know why you think it is fair I'm getting screwed outta the time I spent getting to 75, the money I paid to play all that time, and the amount of exp I've lost because of the way the exp works before the update... until I get something of those back or a combination of them returned... I will be against this update.
 
That reminds me! (though I think I already said this?)

Asides stuff like Dynamis....

In the cases of gods, they hafto complete ZM4 I believe? Not a very easy task, most noobs won't get past that. And if they are noobs that DO get past that, very doubtful they'll successfully kill even the NMs that drop the stuff to pop the gods.

If they're noobs, they probably won't be able to get ANY HNM, and even if they do they'd wipe.

Dynamis tends to be a big group of people, usually 2-3 LSes combined. That being said, they PROBABLY wouldn't let any noobs in since it'd hinder the fights and stuff pretty badly. And if a noob-LS managed to get in (ofmg we do dynam-windirst with 30ppls lamo), they'd probably wipe incredibly fast as well.

And anyone who does this stuff right, isn't really a noob, and thus, would sortof deserve 70+ all the same.

So.........
 
hehe....noobs still get in... atleast once... they get in cause of a friend or because they are given a second chance (something I try to give everyone...atleast for personal things) and the chance of them finding a group that doesn't know about them isn't that hard. There are a LOT of people that play this game after all

Edit: oh.. and I'm not saying you don't deserve lvl75... I'm saying if they make it less exp per level or more exp dropped from mobs or less exp loss during death than they should compensate for those that had to go through all those problems of leveling such as; the death exp loss, the exp per mob, and the exp per level.
 
Elemmire said:
hehe....noobs still get in... atleast once... they get in cause of a friend or because they are given a second chance (something I try to give everyone...atleast for personal things) and the chance of them finding a group that doesn't know about them isn't that hard. There are a LOT of people that play this game after all
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OK, OK...a noob or two might get into a Dynamis party (2/72 people, eeee), just saying that in something like HNM, to my knowledge people aren't gonna go and let a noob tag along unless it's simply for title, because they sure as hell wouldn't contribute well to the party at all (daresay, they could grab unwanted agro, etc etc).

And in the case of a noob party, well, pretty much what I stated eirlier. I just don't think the 75-ish areas/evenstuffs will be "flooded" because of that..A party is like a boat and the noobs are holes. Big boat can float with two smalls holes, but it'll slowly get sunk. And if the party's one big hole...
......
I'm just gonna shut up, my frain's bried.
 
I'm sorry Sneakypants but if I've missed a response to any posts at all with questions or arguments directed towards me I'm completely unaware. You will have to understand I'm arguing with several people at once, and for the most part the people attacking me personally have taken a priority. If there's something I've missed, please feel free to repeat it and I'll do my best, but looking back on this thread I'm not really sure what the hell's going on anymore for the most part.


But still, I don't think noobs will get too far past 60. If there's a noob, they'll probably
-Do something to get themself killed
-Do something that gets them kicked from party
-Do something that breaks the party
-Do something that kills the entire party, probably resulting in at least one of the above
-Do something that makes getting a party altogether difficult (mainly bad rep, but also bad subjob, grossly underlevelled subjob)

Anyone asides that may be a moron, but not a noob.....which, respectively, I've seen quite a few level 70+ morons. It's funny how many 75SAMs don't know what a Sukesada is O_o
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Doesn't the first and second part just contradict each other? If there are so many noob 75s did they magic their way there? Obviously 95% of the parties aren't going to just boot someone because they're a crappy player. And there's so huge a population people get by through being anonymous. Here's the reality of the situation. Past level 60 you're golden right now. If you're an idiot, it doesn't even matter. People are never going to kick you because it takes too god damn long to assemble parties. Not to mention as a leader if you kick a member the odds are the other members are going to get pissed off and leave too. Not to mention most people don't want to make enemies while they're leveling because they are just so damn happy to be in an xp pt and they don't want having enemies to hinder future parties.

The reality is, the most popular belief in FF is that the person who refuses to party with noob X is a dickhead. The belief is that the bottom end gear and skill = standard and everyone with more are so so "l33t". If anything lowering exp requirements makes it easier for people who don't mind leveling with crap gear because leveling is larger portion of their time.

To explain:

Sneakypants spends 60 farming/camping for Scorpion Harness and HQ food.
Sneakypants spends 50 hours leveling 50-60 to wear it.
Total time 50-60 = 100 hours.

Thief2 spends 2 hours farming for meat mithkabobs.
Thief2 spends 60 hours leveling 50-60.
Total time = 62 hours.

Exp time reduces by 20%....

Sneakypants = Hmmm.. 90 hours.

Thief2 = Hmmm.. 50 hours.

Who's getting hepled more by this change? Who's going to be filling up the God LS' first?
 
I <3 Firestreak :D
 
Guess I look up too much to the HNM/God LS'es then. Wasn't exactly referring to who has scorp harness vs. who doesn't (rather, gear-based), I'm referring to crap like THFs who SATA Viper Bite from in front of the monster, constantly. Didn't think Any high-level LSes would take in morons like that so in the case of them hitting 70+ they'd be relatively screwed, but I guess I dunno any better.. *shrug*
 
well...there aren't really as many of those kinda noobs... hell... even the gilsellers do decent against things... they just bring too many to a fight which = more TP to a mob = more Mob ws = more trouble = making em look more noobish... maybe why BoL is looked down upon... because they do bring so many to a HNM to get claim AND (people forget this...) to give members a chance at HNM and fun stuff like that... (something I am happy to see WYS do for his members). Anyways.... it just is unfair to me for those that have worked so hard and so long with the current system of exping... and to get nothing back cause S-E decides to make it easier for others. And, yes, it'll make it worse for future HNM/God/Dynamis LS the way Firestreak described
 
Firestreak said:
I'm sorry Sneakypants but if I've missed a response to any posts at all with questions or arguments directed towards me I'm completely unaware. You will have to understand I'm arguing with several people at once, and for the most part the people attacking me personally have taken a priority. If there's something I've missed, please feel free to repeat it and I'll do my best, but looking back on this thread I'm not really sure what the hell's going on anymore for the most part.
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Understood, Fire. I'm done though. Reitterating <no thanks>. It's all in there. I don't need a response though.
 
I mean no offense, as it's just a question: how would you (those opposed to the exp req being lowered) feel if the req was raised?

If you say it's a good idea, it totally contradicts what you previously said as it'd make future jobs more hard-earned than you~
 
I'd still be against that.. Mishaela. It'd be completely unfair... and I'd have to take deleveling and to have to exp more to get to level 75 again(with my compensating for changes in exp loss idea)... {No Thanks}
 
That's correct Mistaya. At the time that I said I hadn't made the argument, I hadn't made the argument. Then people arguing against this argument I didn't make went further and I felt the need to contradict them.

If you want to talk about contradictions... we don't need to be digging around the whole 21 pages for my stuff. How about these last 2 for yours.

Like I said last post here so whatever. I'll just fade into the background again since it doesnt matter what my opinions are if i don't have Kirin's Captivator next to my name.
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Then you... talking now?
 
mean no offense, as it's just a question: how would you (those opposed to the exp req being lowered) feel if the req was raised?
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I'd think it was unfair unless they subtracted the exp from current 75s, but obviously they wouldn't. Level 75 would gain a bump in value that I didn't earn.

As for the people who SATA from in front of the mob and what not.... well... I haven't seen any of those... really total idiots in a level 50+ party before. The other day on my SMN I was shocked at our 49+ mnk for not having a TP macro or knowing how to make one, but he still functioned as a skillchainer somehow. Don't know what to tell you... I don't see any 50-75 changing effecting them too much either way and THOSE people are a total minority as far as I've seen.
 
Konartist said:
ohhh now I get it.....there are enough weapons and golems in sky for everyone 70+ to level there :roll: :roll:
and I have leveled in sky as a 73blm and the exp was not 200+ kill cept maybe on chain 4 and 5.
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thats not true if you were doing golems. i got over 200xp on a chain on golems w/ a full 75 party... and you dont chain weapons and golems together, they are in seperate areas.


ultraseven said:
i'm still shocked that i probably only met 5% of the ppl on this server... so crazy insane it's sick.
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ditto that :)

Elemmire said:
it's not jealousy that makes those of us that think this new change to exp is wrong. Atleast... for me, I see it as unfair to the people that did sacrifice time and money (remember it took the current level 75s longer to get to 75 so they spent more money due to paying monthly to play....) and worked hard for a significantly longer time... the only problem I have is that I'm not getting compensated for the time/money/exp that I've used/made to get to where I am and I've yet to get anything I really want done...done...the people that seem to be all for this are those that haven't achieved 75 yet and are too impatient to spend more time getting to it... and so I see Firestreak being called jealous, which is complete bullshit. Don't start thinking that because someone doesn't agree to the benefits you are recieveing that the person is automatically jealous...cause I know I'm not... I just don't see anything fair for the players that have worked so hard to 75 and died losing 25% exp a death...now it seems they are reducing it to only 8% exp loss after level 25.... why do any of you really think that people that have achieved one or even more jobs to 75 and aren't getting any of all they put into it back.... that this is fair for all other players to get to 75 faster/easier? There's no fairness in it from what I can see... and Firestreak is right...making it easier will cheapen the meaning of being level 75.... look at WoW.... it's nothing special getting to 60 there or to 100 with any craft.... boring....
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welllllllllll said thank you:) that pretty much sums it up.
 
Konartist said:
ohhh now I get it.....there are enough weapons and golems in sky for everyone 70+ to level there :roll: :roll:
and I have leveled in sky as a 73blm and the exp was not 200+ kill cept maybe on chain 4 and 5.
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since when was Konartist a BLM? And... WHY DO YOU THINK THERE ARE NEW AREAS BEING ADDED AND OTHER AREAS ALREADY ADDED? sure you need to get a pass to the Fields or whatever.... the one that's new and I can't spell...but..appearantly..you..can..exp there too...and... guess what? Can't get to sky without doing quests. I don't see your logic really making any good point :\
 
Elemmire said:
it's not jealousy that makes those of us that think this new change to exp is wrong. Atleast... for me, I see it as unfair to the people that did sacrifice time and money (remember it took the current level 75s longer to get to 75 so they spent more money due to paying monthly to play....) and worked hard for a significantly longer time... the only problem I have is that I'm not getting compensated for the time/money/exp that I've used/made to get to where I am and I've yet to get anything I really want done...done...
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Why does it seem that every high level that's against this update seem to ignore the fact that the act of being level 75 and being able to do things that non-high levels (i'll say 70-75) simply cannot do because of their character's inability to handle the situations end-game content gives them is a benefit in itself? An endgame melee character already has their Optical Hat, likely some other rare/ex equipment (Joyeuse, AF2, other BC/KC drops.) They've been in Sky longer than I knew what Sky was. They have the ability to get more CPs and sell their CP items for gil. These are all things I, as a level 55, simply cannot do on a fundamental level. How is that not compensation?

the people that seem to be all for this are those that haven't achieved 75 yet and are too impatient to spend more time getting to it... and so I see Firestreak being called jealous, which is complete bullshit.
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I didn't know those of us that are ok with the update had a choice in the matter.

Don't start thinking that because someone doesn't agree to the benefits you are recieveing that the person is automatically jealous...
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And don't start thinking that someone that supports the update is dancing in the streets because they're going to save a few hours partying to get to 75.

and Firestreak is right...making it easier will cheapen the meaning of being level 75.... look at WoW.... it's nothing special getting to 60 there or to 100 with any craft.... boring....
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Here comes the Ivory Tower thinking - 'we did it first and now that more people can get it easier it doesn't mean as much.' Bull. Anyone willing to continue to pay that monthly fee and stick it out would reach level 75 - eventually.

On top of that, I think this update was to help people on their first job to earn gil to afford the gear they need to level at the standard those that have already hit 75 expect from people. Going back to my MNK gear as an example:

When I started MNK, Ochiudo's Kote was 300k, Brown Belt was 400k, Cross-Counters were 1 million, and Sniper's Rings were 200k. Now, all those items are 1 million, 1 million, 4 million, and 500k respectively. This would be all well and good if everything a level 50 or so had tripled or quadrupled in value as well, but the simple fact is that it hasn't. It takes more time to farm the necessary gil (even with the increase in the price of raw materials) than it did before. And it doesn't end with that gear. Pallas's Bracelets are up to 3 million from 1. Spectacles are up to 4 million from 2. Hakutaku Eye Clusters used to be 3-400k when I first remember seeing them in Jeuno, and now they're 700, 800, I've seen them as high as 1 million in bazaars. When a high-level player goes and plays another job, not only do they get the same XP table reduction benefit as those on their first job, but they get the benefits of:

1) Using gear they used on their first job (if appropriate) on that second job
2) Ability to farm more areas faster, leading to better gil/hr ratios
3) No need to stop for Genkai bottlenecks
4) Ability to solo or duo most of their AF quests and coffer hunts

There are PLENTY of benefits given to you for reaching 75 before everyone else, and I'm really suprised that so few people are seeing it.
 
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