Ok tell me why...

On another note RDM 75 Cap at 240+2(from merit) Elemental skill, as a 73 BLM I am at 263(+2 from merit)..I believe, its somewhere in around there. Other words I am nuking at the lvl of a 60ish BLM at 75.
BLM is far beyond RDM dreams in the nuking department. If I nuke its not on a exp.mob. if I am in sky farming ill nuke then as well. but in strict exp party forget it its just a waste of MP, better used on a cure or extra enfeeble or something. RDM nuke at best can be classified as 'decent'.
 
Nifal said:
On another note RDM 75 Cap at 240+2(from merit) Elemental skill, as a 73 BLM I am at 263(+2 from merit)..I believe, its somewhere in around there. Other words I am nuking at the lvl of a 60ish BLM at 75.
BLM is far beyond RDM dreams in the nuking department. If I nuke its not on a exp.mob. if I am in sky farming ill nuke then as well. but in strict exp party forget it its just a waste of MP, better used on a cure or extra enfeeble or something. RDM nuke at best can be classified as 'decent'.
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Once again, if you have MP over after 10 min, you need to spend that MP ASAP... might aswell nuke then to kill faster
 
Uzor said:
Once again, if you have MP over after 10 min, you need to spend that MP ASAP... might aswell nuke then to kill faster
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or check where else you can use that mp to better server the party. to many times rdm's think its there job to nuke the mob and then run out of mp and then the mages dont have refresh and certain melee or tank jobs isnt getting haste or the whm is low on mp that nuking power can go elsewhere to better assist the party. not saying that never nuking is the only way, but i think limiting it to maybe one a fight if you have time on a mb is the only logical way so you get the most bang for the buck. often times though if a blm is in the party it is worthless because there mb is going to kill it in later lvls adding it up with the SC so its best to use that mp elsewhere
 
Uzor said:
Once again, if you have MP over after 10 min, you need to spend that MP ASAP... might aswell nuke then to kill faster
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Why waste say 128MP (thunder III) on a mob that is 90% at very garunteed to resist + only do somewhere in the neigborhoon of 100 - 200 dmg, when BLM doing the exact same spell do well over 500 dmg no problem. Its just not worth it. Maybe a MB but thats it for nuking otherwise my advice it to save it.
 
Nifal.. depends a lot on the party. I think the point that he is trying to make is not to be wasteful. Sure its only 100 some dmg, but if you have the mp-- use it and not horde it. I'd have some RDMs racing me on trying to Cure. *Cough* why're you doing my job when I'm full mp. And other RDMs who fail to see the No more MP! and wouldn't want to cast a Cure if their life depended on it... correction.. they'd cure themselves.... but that's it!:P They cannot melee as well as a Warrior can, they cannot heal as well as a White Mage can, and they cannot nuke as well as a Black Mage can. (At least in most general cases.) But, the fact that they can do all of it, is what makes them so invaluable. Even a bard can do refresh and dispell.-- (I'm thinking of unlocking Bard.)-- But Imma be one've those gimpy bards. 30mil for a manteel? Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass!:)
 
... you still don't understand what I'm saying... You won't miss a refresh when the convert timer is at 00:00 and your MP is 300. That MP is just a waste, and should be used ASAP. You should use that MP on things so you can convert, and hence you can use it to nuke/heal or w/e (and talking from personal experience, the melees/tank are usually in the white at this time anyway, so you might aswell use it to nuke). And honestly, you must suck as a RDM if your resist rate on exp mobs are 90%... You just have to take in to consideration what the enemy is weak to, what day it is etc.

My elemental magic is at 257 at 75 without any elemental magics and without Ice Staff, and ironically, Blizzard is the most accurate spell in most cases since you have Ice Staff. Now, with Ice Staff my elemental Magic is 267 capped, + some magic accuracy from Ice Magic Accuracy merits, and I get tesisted no where near 90% on normal nukes. I can magic burst for around 750-800 damage with no day/weather bonus, no Ugga-bugga pendant, no Zenith Mitts and no AF2 boots, and my normal nukes do over 500. Even if I get a partial resist (as in, 50% damage = 250 damage) on the 2 spells I can cast (note: covnert is up) that's still 500 damage closer to a dead mob (which in most cases is around 10% of the mobs HP), which both helps you get exp faster, as well as saving the WHM, BLM and PLD's MP as a faster fight means less MP spent for them.
 
I see no need to use my convert just because it's ready. It far better to wait till I actually need it than to just burn the mp because it's there. Of course if I have 40-80MP left I tend to just give some left out melee's a haste. I know alot of RDM say they do both Haste and Refresh on everyone, but if I cast haste at all, I only take the tank, since I am most likely to be standing anyways when it wears off and if I am doing my job properly, the WHM has more than enough MP to keep the others hasted. I have noticed I do more touch up curing than other RDMs though, so the MP I save the WHM by doing that probably comes out the same if not greater.
 
Bigboy said:
I see no need to use my convert just because it's ready. It far better to wait till I actually need it than to just burn the mp because it's there. Of course if I have 40-80MP left I tend to just give some left out melee's a haste. I know alot of RDM say they do both Haste and Refresh on everyone, but if I cast haste at all, I only take the tank, since I am most likely to be standing anyways when it wears off and if I am doing my job properly, the WHM has more than enough MP to keep the others hasted. I have noticed I do more touch up curing than other RDMs though, so the MP I save the WHM by doing that probably comes out the same if not greater.
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in HNM fights, it's use to save it, but in a exp party, it is far more efficient if you try to time your MP usage with your convert timer, as in try to use up all of your MP by the time Convert is ready, and then I don't mean use it all, rest up for 1 min, use it all, rinse and repeat untill Convert is ready, because that is useless... What I mean, is cast enough, while still preserving MP, so that you only have at the most maybe 100 MP left by the time Convert is ready, so you can use the last MP and then convert.
 
Uzor said:
in HNM fights, it's use to save it, but in a exp party, it is far more efficient if you try to time your MP usage with your convert timer, as in try to use up all of your MP by the time Convert is ready, and then I don't mean use it all, rest up for 1 min, use it all, rinse and repeat untill Convert is ready, because that is useless... What I mean, is cast enough, while still preserving MP, so that you only have at the most maybe 100 MP left by the time Convert is ready, so you can use the last MP and then convert.
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I suppose thats one way to look at it. I have just never seen any point in burning it on something like a nuke. As I said in my last post, if I am low enough I will use it up, but there are some PTs where everything just goes so flawlessly that I toss out my string of debuffs, maybe a cure or 2, and the usually buffs, and rip a phat aspir off the mob leaving me with no defficit in MP through the whole fight. In normal instances, it just works out that I am reasonably low on MP by the time convert is up, but I am willing to let it sit there unused for a minute or 2. There is just no pressing need to burn it on something that will only reduce the time the melees have to gather TP for the next mob.
 
i duno im a big fan of making sure a /thf is hasted, myself, and the tank and keeping all mages refreshed as well as pld if there is one.
i keep all enfebbles up as much as possible that includes gravity and with haste the recast time on it is cut down as well. because i have convert i try and take as much heat of the other mages and let them focus on there main priority as possible to help extrend the chains.

I usually work myself out best i can so that when my convert timer is rdy im rdy to convert and i keep haste up so i have quick recast times on JA's and spells. that means i can refresh faster and haste faster. im also weird and dont follow the me > pld > whm blah blah blah refresh order either. i just start with me and go down the party menu rotating between refresh and haste and it never falls so i never hear anyone complain {refresh please}

but thats just me
 
Bigboy said:
I suppose thats one way to look at it. I have just never seen any point in burning it on something like a nuke. As I said in my last post, if I am low enough I will use it up, but there are some PTs where everything just goes so flawlessly that I toss out my string of debuffs, maybe a cure or 2, and the usually buffs, and rip a phat aspir off the mob leaving me with no defficit in MP through the whole fight. In normal instances, it just works out that I am reasonably low on MP by the time convert is up, but I am willing to let it sit there unused for a minute or 2. There is just no pressing need to burn it on something that will only reduce the time the melees have to gather TP for the next mob.
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My point wasn't really to burn it all the last minute in order to convert, my point was that you can do more things every battle so that your MP is used up by the time Convert is up. It might be one more MB every now and then, maybe take one more person to haste etc. It's hard to know jsut how much MP you use by the first two covnert cycles, so those two you use all of your MP the last minute to get a "feel" for how much more MP you can use every fight.

Even if it means one more MB every fight, that still makes the fights faster. You should ALWAYS try and time your MP with your convert so that you have used most of your MP by the time Convert is up.
 
passions said:
but thats just me
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Didn't feel the need to quote the whole thing.

There are alot of good ways to do the job, yours sounds like it would work just fine. The most important part of the job is flexibility, so some days I have to do things the way you described, and sometimes things work the way Uzor said, and when I get things my way the results are the same. I try to make sure I can get other PT members to cover some of my job and vise versa. Making sure that we are all on top of things that may not just be our jobs main role ensures that in the worst case scenario, where I have to focus my attention on links, or someone miraculously goes down, or a random DC takes out the healer or tank, we don't end up dead.

In the end, everything works out the same, and xp/hour is high, and I've never heard anything but praise, but who knows? People could be talking shit about me in tells without me knowing. Until someone slips up and tosses out a MT, I'll never know.
 
the one thing i learned over time playing rdm is that a rdm never has a set role.

it is always changing and adapting to what the party set up is and what mob your fighting and whats going on in general. you never just focus on curing or nuking or anything you always pick up the slack where the party is missing thats what makes a good rdm. long as your doing that your party is going to see you as a good rdm and if everyone else is good then you'll get good xp and maybe a little more because you are good.
 
Bigboy said:
Until someone slips up and tosses out a MT, I'll never know.
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lol i told a party i was going to fake dc on them because they all sucked ass once when i meant to tell it to linkshell lol

i think they were shocked when i just decided to warp instead and said i was serious they all sucked and i didn't wana stay. :biggrin:
 
Uzor said:
Even if it means one more MB every fight, that still makes the fights faster. You should ALWAYS try and time your MP with your convert so that you have used most of your MP by the time Convert is up.
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I always double MB. Not necissarily both nukes, but usually a nuke/drain if it ends in darkness, and a debuff/nuke if it ends in light. I could try and step it up a notch I suppose. It just takes alot to burn through 800+ MP in 10 minutes without me feeling like I am just casting to cast something.

One thing I don't do that I know almost every other RDM does, is cast a slew of DoTs. BLMs just love to toss out bio, and honestly, a BLM or DRK is gonna land it harder than I am. If a Dia is in order, I might throw it out, but usually I let the WHM's enjoy it, since they don't always have their enfeebling capped and will snatch up the chance when offered. I might cast poison if I get the urge, but usually I let it go uncast while I wait from something to wear. By no means am I doing all I could, but I always have plenty of MP to cure and deal with the unnexpected.
 
I guess we all have our ways of operating, cause truthfully neither way is wrong. And both benefit the party equally. I would like to add however I do appreciate the nice arguement with aconyms, and cussing at each other.
But, I think well call this a draw. if you feel 100 or so DMg is worth say 128 MP, by all means nuke your little head off lol, but if your like me and feel the need to conserve it for something like an extra cure regen refresh or somethin of that nature, there is nothing wrong with that either.<see *> Either way you have done your job (Enfeeble), then haste, refresh, nuke, cure etc...

*Ill translate the last sentence before someone gets wreckless again. No where in the sentence does it say not any of the above.*
 
Nifal said:
I guess we all have our ways of operating, cause truthfully neither way is wrong. And both benefit the party equally. I would like to add however I do appreciate the nice arguement with aconyms, and cussing at each other.
But, I think well call this a draw. if you feel 100 or so DMg is worth say 128 MP, by all means nuke your little head off lol, but if your like me and feel the need to conserve it for something like an extra cure regen refresh or somethin of that nature, there is nothing wrong with that either.<see *> Either way you have done your job (Enfeeble), then haste, refresh, nuke, cure etc...

*Ill translate the last sentence before someone gets wreckless again. No where in the sentence does it say not any of the above.*
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I think that 128 MP is well worth the 500 damage when you have 200 MP left. And I will never know how you can cast an "extra" refresh (as everyone who needs it should have it) <.<; And also, Regen is 15 MP <.<; it won't make THAT much of a difference at 60+ <.<;
 
Mirewen said:
Thats kind of implying that the RDMs that melee have a better skill at playing RDM.
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I say this merely as an observation, since I happen to have a friend who plays RDM, casts and melees, and does very well at the job. No offense, but seeing how Red Mage was intended to be a melee and casting job, I'd say those that can play the job for what it was meant to be, are more skilled at it >.>;

I'd also like to add that, although certain emergency situations may call for a Red Mage to fill the role of another job, Red Mages aren't main anything, and shouldn't be treated as such. They were meant to be able to do a little bit of everything. Don't like it? Don't invite them then. Simple as that. If you don't like the way someone is playing, there's no law saying you have to party with them. No one is required to conform to anybody's perspective or experience of what they think someone playing a job "should do". It's called a personal opinion. In any case, for those RDMs that can play the job to it's full ability /cheer And /comfort for having to listen to all the criticism that comes from parties having experiences with people who don't know how to play the job properly. And no, I don't mean to say that RDMs who don't melee aren't still good at the job. I'm referring to the people who can't keep up with casting duties and melee at the same time, but continue to try. If you can't handle all of it, please don't attempt to do so. Leave the half-a** partying for the Dunes, and realize what you can and can't do so you don't make the job look bad for those who can and do play it properly. Whether with or without meleeing.
 
Ariadne said:
I say this merely as an observation, since I happen to have a friend who plays RDM, casts and melees, and does very well at the job. No offense, but seeing how Red Mage was intended to be a melee and casting job, I'd say those that can play the job for what it was meant to be, are more skilled at it >.>;
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Just remember that how a job is intended to be played and how they are best suited to act/perform in an EX party are very different things. While it might take more skill to melee and cast in an XP party, it is a fact that the INT/MND they gain from a wand is more beneficial to the group as a whole, and the same can be said for using elemetal staves, even though RDM don't even get a staff skill. While you may see your friend as more skilled, and it may be true, they cannot melee in any meaningful mannor [using WS] without sacrifing effectiveness in all other areas. Now when I am not in an xp party, or fighting a NM with a large group, I deffinately take up the sword, but I wouldn't dare whip it out otherwise. It should also be noted that to even hit something, with capped sword skill, past 40, usually requires some for of accuracy gear, which they would have to replace another beneficial peice of gear for.

Of course, if all you want out of a RDM is Refresh and Haste, they could be naked and still do it just as effectively.
 
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