Ok tell me why...

[Rinoah]

You know this was like a 50-something page arguement back on the old qcdn...

Red mage giving TP to mobs is proven (whether they do enough damage to make the tp given to the mob worthwhile is another matter but i'll leave that alone...)

It can be easily tested by dusting off your BST, hitting a mob then charming it to see the tp difference.

But the main problem with RDM melee is AoE and them not doing their job. The former means they should not melee as it puts extra pressure on the WHM, and the latter is obvious. Frankly if a rdm can do his job and melee then its fine by me (assuming it doesn't AoE that is); I doubt the tp he gives is so massive that it can't be coped with (even if it is an annoyance), but the main problem is that most people cannot do both at the same time, now people try and defend melee but do not defend shitty rdm, when often they are the same thing. YES rdm can melee, but is it successful? i would have to say that at least 90% of the time it is more than a hinderance than a help, but if you are one of the minority that only melee when it makes sense and it in no way hinders your job ability then good job, give yourself a clap on the back.

In a nutshell this subject has been argued to death more than once, lets not bother again. Meleeing rdm (who can't do their job as well) are a problem that has been around for a long while and will no doubt stay unless SE decide to remove sword privilages from rdm, deal with it and move on because no doubt you will find bad players from other classes just as often just not under such a common steriotype as "meleeing rdm".

 

[Uzor]

... how many times have I posted in threads like this? Really, we should sticky one of them <.<;

RDM meleeing doesn't really make that much of a difference TP-wise for the mob. If the RDM does enfeeble/refresh/melee/backup-heal/MB just fine, without getting too far behind on any of his duties, why can't he melee?

Don't bring up the stupid "He'll run out of MP faster!!!" argument, because we all know it's a shitty argument. A RDM shouldn't /heal during fights anyway unless he's main healer, or a speciall situation occurs that means he has to heal.

You know why? Because he mainly doesn't have TIME to heal. In order to make the first tick kick in, you have to /heal for 20 sec, and you don't HAVE 20 sec to heal in a exp party (during a fight) unless you're slacking off or main healing.

So if the RDM performs all of his duties just fine, why can't he draw his sword and melee for a few swings?

 

[Uzor]

But the main problem with RDM melee is AoE and them not doing their job. The former means they should not melee as it puts extra pressure on the WHM, and the latter is obvious. Frankly if a rdm can do his job and melee then its fine by me (assuming it doesn't AoE that is); I doubt the tp he gives is so massive that it can't be coped with (even if it is an annoyance), but the main problem is that most people cannot do both at the same time, now people try and defend melee but do not defend shitty rdm, when often they are the same thing. YES rdm can melee, but is it successful? i would have to say that at least 90% of the time it is more than a hinderance than a help, but if you are one of the minority that only melee when it makes sense and it in no way hinders your job ability then good job, give yourself a clap on the back.

That's another point I forgot to mention, but that is rather self-explanatory. If the mob have mean AoE moves, either damaging or status effects (mainly paralyze, silence and break), then no. He shouldn't melee, although paralyze shouldn't be much of a problem if the WHM does his job good... And if the RDM have Echo Drops, AoE silence doesn't hurt the WHM either (only the RDM really).

But yeah, for the most part, a don't melee if the mob has evil AoE moves.

 

[Rhyan]

Its an EXP party not a skill up party. If they want to skill up whatever, then go to a skill up party.

 

[Dowzer]

RDM melee damage is not worth the amount of TP given to the monster. Thus resulting in annoying and damaging WS's occuring more often from monsters.

Nuff Said.

 

[gir]

My friend Cinder is a great Red Mage...he melees, enfeebles, refreshes and does his dispels without being asked and he emergency heals when needed. I think it's all a matter of personal ability...some RDMs are great and some are so bad I would turn down a party to avoid them (no names) lol.

I don't think you chose a good example of meleeing RDM at all. I've pt'd with him on more than one occasion and never got more than 2k/hr because
A. he ran out of MP on chain #1
B. wouldn't refresh while swinging a sword
C. didn't rest for MP unless you begged him to forget his 39% TP
D. converted once an hour

Granted, I've had terrible RDMs who didn't melee, but the bottom of the barrel in terms of RDMs seems to be highly populated with those who do.

I've never encountered a superior meleeing RDM in an xp pt. Then again, I like BRDs^^

 

[Tymon]

If a RDM is in a good party with little downtime as is and can keep up with their magic duties, be able to stick debuffs fine (this would mean not caring about TP as you macro in elemental staves almost every spell cast,) and have a not-always-empty MP pool, then sure, melee. If even one of those falls into the false category, GTF back over there.

 

[Nifal]

I don't know what your point is here but it sure sounds retarded! When RDM gets combat boost JAs, an A rating in Sword and some non-toothpick Swords to swing, get back to me about RDM melee.

I am just pointing out how everyone rambles about this TP bull when like I said before its gunna happen its inevitable, hell you dont even have to hit the mob for it to "gain TP", its not like a RDM meleeing would ever hit it enough to matter anyways even if they were meleeing, yet ppl still use it as a defense. If they are getting their job done frankly, if you ask me thats all that matters. So to all the RDM melee go for it, just do your job as well (Refresh, Enfeeble, and throw a cure or two). Hell to anyone else who has to stick their nose into anyone elses job especially if they dont even have the job.

 

[Braydon]

I am just pointing out how everyone rambles about this TP bull when like I said before its gunna happen its inevitable, hell you dont even have to hit the mob for it to "gain TP", its not like a RDM meleeing would ever hit it enough to matter anyways even if they were meleeing, yet ppl still use it as a defense. If they are getting their job done frankly, if you ask me thats all that matters. So to all the RDM melee go for it, just do your job as well (Refresh, Enfeeble, and throw a cure or two). Hell to anyone else who has to stick their nose into anyone elses job especially if they dont even have the job.

1st off, it does add o the tp. Your obviosuly not reading what people are posting.

Secondly, There are a bunch of other things the rdm should be doing instead of meeleing. Its not a good use of your time. I'm a pld, and I have offensive magic, such as banish and holy. While using them would help the party by doing damage, I would be helping the party more by saving my mp for flashes and cures. The time you use meeleing could be used fr a number of more useful activities.

 

[Uzor]

1st off, it does add o the tp. Your obviosuly not reading what people are posting.

Secondly, There are a bunch of other things the rdm should be doing instead of meeleing. Its not a good use of your time. I'm a pld, and I have offensive magic, such as banish and holy. While using them would help the party by doing damage, I would be helping the party more by saving my mp for flashes and cures. The time you use meeleing could be used fr a number of more useful activities.

Yes, it does give TP, but so do offensive magic.

 

[Pompidou]

It does give TP, if the Rdm lands swings. One of the criteria for a Rdm being allowed to melee is that s/he casts all the required spells on a timely basis. If the Rdm is doing this, there won't be much time to land any sword swings. Without accuracy gear, the few swings that do happen will be unlikely to land. Mob TP isn't a strong argument against Rdm meleeing. A good meleeing Rdm won't have time to melee because s/he's too busy casting. That's the irony of it. Only the unskilled meleeing Rdms will have time to land enough swings to give the mob enough TP to cry about. Mob TP and meleeing Rdms is a nonissue.

 

[Uzor]

It does give TP, if the Rdm lands swings. One of the criteria for a Rdm being allowed to melee is that s/he casts all the required spells on a timely basis. If the Rdm is doing this, there won't be much time to land any sword swings. Without accuracy gear, the few swings that do happen will be unlikely to land. Mob TP isn't a strong argument against Rdm meleeing. A good meleeing Rdm won't have time to melee because s/he's too busy casting. That's the irony of it. Only the unskilled meleeing Rdms will have time to land enough swings to give the mob enough TP to cry about. Mob TP and meleeing Rdms is a nonissue.

Which is exactly my point. They don't have time to rest, so if they feel like swinging their sword twice at an enemy, go for it. Even IF they hit, it's not enough to actually make a difference.

 

[Darkdante]

You know the flames are getting lame again when the Red-Mage flames start popping back up.......

 

[Braydon]

...Or the flames flamming the quality of the fame board

 

[Darkdante]

.....or the flames flamming the quality of flames flaming the quality of the flameboard. :bb::bb:

 

[Braydon]

I was gonna try to reply to that, but my Keyboard started to beat me in the face with the mouse....

 

[Mokk]

A good meleeing Rdm

Oxymorons 4tw.

 

[Bigboy]

If we're leveling off of [Tough]s, then I can totally melee in a worthwhile fashion. But since that's not what we do until merit parties, it doesn't relaly matter.

 

[Darthyoda]

reply

What is wrong with a WAR/MNK pulling too much hate? Oh I see you never had them as a tank in your entire lifetime of playing FFXI.

I was being sarcastic. I've seen party members complain when the monk pulls hate without boost, or weapon skills...

Also, I'm not saying that mages should typically melee, I'm saying that if a rdm can do all of his/her duties, and wants to melee a mob that doesn't inflict a disabling AOE.... then let them.

That's my point.

 

[Mishaela]

If a RDM wants to DD...it's best they do it when /BLM and giving a well-timed nuke. Why?
Sword RDM = not staff swapping for enfeebs/nukes. If s/he swapped, they'd never get TP to WS, making meleeing totally pointless. And not staff-swapping = not a high-class RDM, or they'd be swapping for enfeebs/nukes to begin with....so it's a hand-in-hand sorta thing..