Ok tell me why...

[Darthyoda]

/sigh ...
I'm trying... I really am..

but, I'm trying to prevent burnout on whm by doing rdm. unfortunately my blm is on hold til my static catches back up.. I think I left them at 55.
I'm still exp'ing whm in between.. but main healing as rdm isn't helping matters any...
:wacko:

I'm almost 66 now.. I thought I'd add some fun to exp'ing in sky as whm, but I got shot down on that idea ... I need a break from the dull .. cure cure cure cure cure, <insert buff, or status removal here>, cure, cure, cure, cure, cure <watch a dd do something horrible>, raise!!, cure, cure, cure,cure... rest.

Plus I'm hoping to use rdm to cap out my enfeebling and enhancing skill to hit maat up. ^^

pm me and I'll outline my general plan.. I'm bad that way.. I tend to try and plan everything out.

 

[Shaidalyn]

So you do 3 debuffs and 3 refreshes.
Wow, you sound like the lousiest rdm ever.
You wont cure cause thats the whm's job?
You wont haste cause that's the whm's job?
You wont dia II cause thats the whm's job?
You dont poison cause that's blms job?
You wont bio cause thats the blm's job?
WTF is wrong with you?
But you do melee even that thats the melees job?

Now here is how it is.
Your a rdm, you play a supportrole in a exp pty.
Your highest skill is enhancing magic and enfeebling
magic. Meaning that enhancing magic and enfeebling
magic is primarily your job, not the whm or blm.

Now lets see, last i checked, dia and poison was
enfeebling magic wich puts that as your job, haste
would be enhancing magic, so thats yours to.
Now typically a whm will make sure that the tank is
always hasted and the rdm takes care of the melee as
good as they can. Meaning that a good rdm will keep
the melees hasted at all times.

And as for gravity, it really isnt situational, you need to
research your spells. I'll do thisone for you though, to get
you started.

"Gravity: Reduces an enemy's evasion and lowers its movement speed."

See the part about reducing evasion? Thats nice and dandy for a
melee you see. That means they can build tp faster, and make that
SC faster and kill faster. I also notice you sub blm, but dont even
plan on sparing some mp for a mb. So i take it you really only want
/blm so you can help the party less and do useless melee more?

I'll tell you what. I'll let the whm do the 3 enfeebles you ARE willing
to do and invite a summoner instead. You are a waste of space.

Thankfully, this is the flameboard, so I can point out, you're a total idiot.
Never did I say this is what I do, I don't melee jackass read up further in the pages. I melee'd in one exp pt ever cause the exp was a total joke and it was nothing but T-VT.

That would be a MELEE RDM pov.. just fyi
Me? I -generally- Para, Slow, Blind, Poison, Bio(or dia), and if I can land it, Gravity.
I -generally- haste a melee DD. I refresh any MP job, and I toss out cures if, say, a DD takes a shot, or the whm sucks and the tank is dying. Why? A Cure IV from me is miniscule on the hate scale.. a WhM can take hate, a RdM, never should. I don't like getting AoE'd in the face repeatedly.. especially status ones.. so I am always wayyy far away.I know my job, I do a damn good job, I just gave you a fact on how to melee successfully. I FIRMLY believe RdM should NOT melee.. I find I do FAR better damage tossing the occassional Thunder II or Blizz II for some good damage.. I generally convert AFTER Chain 4... if at all.. I never run out of mp in a good exp pt.
The problem I have, is when the WhM tosses out Silence/Dia and the Blm tosses out Bio/Poison..
If I toss a spell and see "Has no effect" I'm gonna be pissed.. dont waste my MP.. if you want to enfeeb, invite a bard or smn. My job is as follows
Enfeeble
Refresh
(misc)
Read that again please.. ENFEEBLE -then- REFRESH.
When people steal debuffs, they can keep them. if they dont keep casting them too bad.. I can't tell every spell thats cast. If youre gonna debuff a mob, dont ask for a rdm.

 

[Shaidalyn]

and BTW;
Gravity: Weighs an enemy down and lowers it's movement speed

exact quote. No where is it said the -eva.. thats heresay.. I believe it, but get your spell quotes straight.

 

[Caerloc]

I don't -ever- haste, the WHM has a job too.

And as for my spell-quote, its from Somepage, you know, where they
read a game code to see what the spells does.
Weighed down = Lower eva.

 

[Shaidalyn]

I don't haste anymore.. MP sink, you ever haste a Samurai with a nin tank? Doesn't go well.
And no, I didn't know. I don't check somepage for anything aside skill levels.

 

[Caerloc]

I don't haste anymore.. MP sink, you ever haste a Samurai with a nin tank? Doesn't go well.
And no, I didn't know. I don't check somepage for anything aside skill levels.

I have mnk to 75, and i lvled it all the way to 75 with a nin tank.
I still want my haste.

 

[Darthyoda]

Darth, get to 70 so you can start R3ing me in Dynamis. Lazy taru.

I'm just following your example you uber rdm you.. you inspired me to join the ranks of Red Mage again!!!

I'd also like to lay out what I do as a whm and as a rdm so other's can see what the differences are, and why I want to spice the job up a lil, when I can.

as a whm I:

Cure (duh), haste the tank (only the tank), buff pt members.. sometimes adding a shining ruby for 10% def magic and physical, Cure.. (for emphasis), status removal, Dia II (if the rdm isn't doing it), paralyze (once again if the rdm isn't doing it), and cure... oh.. and I flash too.. for nin when they need help recasting utsusemi, and for pld when they're trying to do a cure IV for hate building... I stay pretty busy as a whm...

I've done 65 lvl's on that job.. and it's not my favorite, I've spent probably as much time helping others, for whatever reason they needed a whm, as I have exp'ing on it.

My favorite is blm.. and for those of you in a good static you know why I'm not focused on that. Static meets 3 times a week on a good week, and my static members are focused on other jobs right now, sooo..... I started doing my rdm with my brother's monk.

what I expect from a rdm:
Rdm was my first job on Darthyoda, and until I became fascinated with point and click damage (famous words of Valoran), was my primary job.
I have seen many many rdm's that I've come up as blm and with that didn't nothing more than refresh the whm and pld... and they thought they were uber even if I had to go half the fight without it....

Since I don't static on whm, I have to go lfg, and when I lvl'd with my brother on his war, I had to build pt's... I noticed a incredible lack of refreshers.... so hitting my impending burnout wall on whm, I decided to do something different before i lost any and all appeal for the game.

Thus, I'm back on rdm. I think I do well, as a whm. I'd like to think I do REALLY well as a blm.. Having a decent knowledge of both jobs, and witnessing really good rdm's like Neyla, and Kenyan, and Elvaankittty, Nifal and many many more, I think I have a pretty decent comprehension of what is expected of me. I start the fight off with paralyze, dia II, and slow... then I check pt member's health, I watch the mob for a reason to dispel, or recast.. If, I see unstable hate, or a wavering mob I won't gravity until I think the mob might make a run on the whm. I use gravity to slow the mob's quarterback sack.... if the history of the exp pt shows good hate control, I'll add gravity to the list of enfeebles, but I don't do it everytime.. so far my exp pt's have had good hit percentage, few misses. I buff the tank when applicable, and keep an eye out for every chance to magic burst. all the while I'm watching pt members' health bars... in one more lvl I'll start my refresh rotation, I will refresh the pld, whm, smn, blm, drk... in that order. I will not refresh a dark unless they ask nicely, or run double digits in mp... I'm not sacrificing the stability of my refresh cycle, for something that I don't deem necessary.. unless they ask... ^^

now during all this if I see a window that I can jump in and melee the mob a little... I'll ask. I don't get offended if they say no. but it takes me away from the routine I've been in for the last year and a half I've lvl'd whm ... ( I don't remmeber when I started)....

That's just me.


ok you can flame me now.

now to put this thread back on track.

 

[Shaidalyn]

I have mnk to 75, and i lvled it all the way to 75 with a nin tank.
I still want my haste.

No flame here.. very serious question. How did you not take hate every battle for half the fight? Honestly I gotta know. As a Sam, without haste, without bers, I take hate EVERY fight from Nin tanks unless we have a SA/TA.

 

[LadyKiKi]

The evasion down on gravity is noticable. Especially when you solo toughs, you DO hit a lot more.

I refresh whoever is next, then proceed to enfeeble. I normally get 2 spells off, then refresh next person. Throw another 2 enfeebles, regen if needed, chuck a cure II or III out to tank or SATA person, refresh next person. Once cycle is completed, either MB when ready, or rest 2-3 ticks. I'll haste if I need to and sleep links.

I normally don't need to convert unless something bad goes wrong. I pride in my MP management, although if I had to haste AND refresh everyone on top of everything else, I think I will need to do it every 10 minutes. The MP must be so taxing!! =(

 

[Darthyoda]

I don't haste anymore.. MP sink, you ever haste a Samurai with a nin tank? Doesn't go well.
And no, I didn't know. I don't check somepage for anything aside skill levels.

I agree there.. and correct me if you think I'm wrong.

I haste the tank to help them hold hate. nin or pld.

I've of the mind if I haste a dd, and give them more blah blah blah.. sure they'll appreciate it because let's face it most dd's pride themselves on being able to pull hate from a hard working tank. The tank holding hate makes my job as whm ooor rdm oooor blm much easier to do.

I won't say I've never haste'd a melee.. they'll ask from time to time, and it the tanks doing a good job, I'll accomodate them. but my mp is precious. I can't drop a knee during a fight, I'm what is keeping them alive, and I have too many other things I'm watching for in a fight...
if the nin tank is doing great, I might drop a knee.. if the pld is stocked on mp, and not taking much damage I'll take a knee.. but when was the last time you watched how long it took to get off your butt when you had to jump up and heal a tank or dd that just took them down to double digits with a single hit... ?!

so, no I don't haste melee... I take that back.. I'll haste a thf/nin.. .
I plan on holding true to that as a rdm.. but we'll see.. I have 8 more levels before I have to worry about that.

I'm sure my opinion of rdm's and their duties might change as soon as I get refresh in 5k exp.

 

[Caerloc]

No flame here.. very serious question. How did you not take hate every battle for half the fight? Honestly I gotta know. As a Sam, without haste, without bers, I take hate EVERY fight from Nin tanks unless we have a SA/TA.

Who said i didnt take hate?
I did, but not by an unmanageble amount.
I had a great tank though, but not doing stuff like
open the fight with a ws helps, then you only have yourself
to blame. Experience helps, my prior job was blm and
you learn how to gauge hate. Staticing with you tank
also lets you know his/her routines, when he/she has loads
of hate tools, when he/she dont have much. My tank also
prioritzed enmity+ over basically anything. I'd usually end up with
hate around when it was time to SC, but meh, the mob is basically
dead with a good sc/mb anyways.

 

[HankScorpio2]

When I started this game though, I was determined to be a 75 Rdm/Thf. I thought about how I was gonna make it work and people would start to level their rdm/thf and it would be glorious. Then around the Yuhtunga/Yhoater switch I realized I needed to sub mage jobs and standing out of AOE range.

That being said...

Really, I don't care if the Red Mage melees or not. If he can enfeeble, refresh, cure, keep his MP up, Magic Burst, not be an MP sponge by taking AoE damage, then knock yourself out bro.

This is the reason I dont melee. Also I'm not that good. Also I wouldn't want to get a bunch of TP then have to switch to Light Staff to heal someone.

 

[meeze]

No flame here.. very serious question. How did you not take hate every battle for half the fight? Honestly I gotta know. As a Sam, without haste, without bers, I take hate EVERY fight from Nin tanks unless we have a SA/TA.

You've partied with some shitty NINs, I hated THFs as a NIN and only let hate go when I needed to recast Ichi. Only jobs I had any sort of trouble was MNK and WAR/NIN. Any two handed weapon jobs had no chance at pulling hate unless it was their WS that did it. If mobs turned, just an elemental magic or two and hate was back. I voked to lock the hate and it was mine the rest of the fight.

When I talk about jobs, I'm talking about partying with pimped out players, not some rank 5 scrub who's struggling his way through his first or second job. I partied with the best equipped players for their level and hate was never an issue. WAR/NIN allowed me to give up hate for timers to cool off.

Partying with people who have leveled several times through those levels makes a hell of a difference than partying with people who haven't.

 

[Mistaya]

If theres a RDM in my pt that guy better be hasting half the people. I'll haste 2 you haste 2. (On whm).

No one goes without haste unless people are dying but in that case we are lvling on the wrong shit and need to change camps. It makes such a huge difference in a Melee's TP gain, the difference between chain 4 and chain 5.

Sure i give preference (Tank, 2h melee, dual weild melee) but unless the melee is pulling hate and I can't keep them up without sacrificing too much mana to keep chain (YET to happen in any pt from 40 to 54) I'm gonna keep em hasted as much as i'm able.

As whm i prefer to dia, for skill.

 

[Uzor]

Just to clear things up, I don't melee on my WHM.

And also, I didn't once say they can't heal in-between battles, I'm talking DURING a battle. And no, saying that you lose TP is a stupid argument, because a RDM isn't a melee, nor a tank. PLD use their WS as a extra way to get hate, melees use it to deal damage. A meleeing RDM use it as a bonus, not to deal good damage or get hate. And therefor, their TP is useless.

Also, I can cast all enfeebles, keep everyone refreshed, backup-heal, haste people, and occasionally MB and still don't run out of MP within 10 min, and if I want to I could go in ans swing my sword once or twice, but why don't I?

Easy, I don't feel like it. Gives me time to relax, talk to my LS or w/e. It's also easier to notice when debuffs wear off. And you don't have to look too closely on the chatlog to see when refresh wears, or even when the mob buffs itself. During my 75 lvls of redmagery I've learned what each and every mob buff animation looks like, so I just dispel whenever I see it, or even hear it. And I think almost every RDM at 75 have a "biological clock" that tells you when it's time to recast refresh...

Seriously, it's not that hard to keep all debuffs and buffs up. So saying that meleeing "distracts you" is bullshit. It's not hard to press the "Auto-attack" button and stare at the screen (which you, btw, do either way)

 

[Darthyoda]

one more reply.

As previous poster stated, I also don't melee as whm, or blm, or smn...
(except solo'ing, farming, NM hunting, or NPC lvl'ing)

however, I don't remember much of my days from rdm 1-32...

I don't think I did much melee then as my sword skill was faaar from capped when I picked it back up....

However, my reason(s) for playing rdm is to break the routine I've been in as whm, blm, and smn. I see rdm as being a versatile job. I won't melee on rdm unless I see a viable opportunity to do so, and even then I usually quietly stop after a while and retreat to the back with the other mages after a while... I simply do it to add some spice. I've been a "sit in the back and cast" player for nearly my entire ffxi career.. you can look at my profile on allakhazam (sp?) if you're curious as to my lvl's. There should be a link at the bottom of my signature.

I think if the situation allows it, and the player's abilities or "focus" is there to allow it.. that the rdm should be allowed to jump in and melee. losing tp as rdm during gear changing shouldn't be an issue if you macro it in.. the tp gain that the mob gains should be negligible.. sooo...

Someone please give me valid reason(s) why I shouldn't melee in an exp pt, and I'll stop.

I'll add that I always ask the party if they don't mind before I start. If I for some reason can't fulfill my other duties, then I stop. I don't always do it.. I just don't like the notion of someone coming in and saying that Red Mage was never intended to melee, or that a melee'ing Red Mage is a bad player. I think that the Red Mage that can balance all of their other duties to the party, AND melee.. is a good player.

Someone respond to this please and correct me if I'm wrong. Bear in mind though I haven't experienced the refresh cycle, or gotten rdm caught up to use the elemental staves yet. I am however familiar with macro'ing those in with my blm.

I'lll wait for your response, and will thank you in advance for having an open mind and researching your answer or basing it off of a wide range of experience before replying.

 

[LadyKiKi]

Someone please give me valid reason(s) why I shouldn't melee in an exp pt, and I'll stop.

I said it earlier, people seemed to have missed it.

For the trouble of dealing like 100 damage through like 20 misses (throughout a fight), on a IT (the usual ...) monster, you're better off after doing everything to sit back and rest your MP back with a Dark Staff for 1-2 or maybe 3 if you're lucky (if Refresh doesn't wear off, if all debuffs are stuck, everything going smooth). Resting that 50+ MP back gives you one more refresh, and conserves your MP without resorting to Convert.

You'd be much more useful resting that MP back than going after and wasting time/attempts to land a hit on the monster. Afterall, you are using mage food (I hope ...). For the purposes of extending a chain, you can potentially accumlate enough MP, and not having to convert, then say the WHM is dry, you stick the refresh cycle around again, let WHM rest for one fight while you as the RDM main heal for one fight (regardless of PLD or NIN tank you don't need to use THAT much MP healing for one fight). With refresh on WHM and possibly the BLM backing you up a bit, and the aid of a Dark Staff and other correct foods, the WHM can get his/her MP back quickly, then you continue on.

 

[Uzor]

I said it earlier, people seemed to have missed it.

For the trouble of dealing like 100 damage through like 20 misses (throughout a fight), on a IT (the usual ...) monster, you're better off after doing everything to sit back and rest your MP back with a Dark Staff for 1-2 or maybe 3 if you're lucky (if Refresh doesn't wear off, if all debuffs are stuck, everything going smooth). Resting that 50+ MP back gives you one more refresh, and conserves your MP without resorting to Convert.

You'd be much more useful resting that MP back than going after and wasting time/attempts to land a hit on the monster. Afterall, you are using mage food (I hope ...). For the purposes of extending a chain, you can potentially accumlate enough MP, and not having to convert, then say the WHM is dry, you stick the refresh cycle around again, let WHM rest for one fight while you as the RDM main heal for one fight (regardless of PLD or NIN tank you don't need to use THAT much MP healing for one fight). With refresh on WHM and possibly the BLM backing you up a bit, and the aid of a Dark Staff and other correct foods, the WHM can get his/her MP back quickly, then you continue on.

as I've said before, if you have time to hit 20 times in a row during a exp party, you are doing something wrong...

When you are meleeing as RDM, you WON'T have time to hit 20 tiems in a row. Hell, if you play the job right, you shouldn't have time to rest for 20 sec DURING a fight

 

[Uzor]

But once again, no one reads what I said... Or people are just ignorant

 

[Shaidalyn]

if you dont have time to rest during a fight as a rdm, YOU are doing a terrible job -.- if you have time to rest BETWEEN them, your puller sucks.