Painted

[JP]

That's not what I meant? I'm saying that they'd rather not have AF2 just bye dropped if someone could use it even if it's not your primary. I think the rule means if you DON'T have a NEED for AF2 than you can have primary lot on 100cc; otherwise if you can primary the 100cc and secondary the AF, and no one is on that AF list except you you're already getting that loot. Is it fair for a person that won their AF2 to also be rolling on 100cc? Imo, no because they already got something desirable. Again, I think the 100cc primary is only there for people that really don't need to be there; which is why I said "I think it means we'll supply you with gil or currency for relic weapon if you stay despite having your AF".

Call me stupid if I'm still not understanding this Romper. But here's what I'm getting out of you:

It's okay to have 100cc on primary and AF2 on secondary but he will not be able to get both. Painted got DNC and then he also got 100cc. That is unfair that he got both.

Here's what I'm getting from Alobont:

It's not okay to have 100cc on primary and AF2 on secondary. If you do, you're AF2 becomes primary and not secondary (this is the weird rule that I think shouldn't exist). Painted had 100cc primary and AF2 secondary. I told him to lot without checking this, he won it, and didn't give it back because 100cc was his primary. He left the run and got kicked from shell.

 

[Shady]

Is that to me Shady? .

Yea, I was basically agreeing with you and taking adding my two cents. Who hasn't been in a shell where you've gotten two drops (main and rot) in one run, right? It's not that uncommon.

 

[JP]

Oh okay I read it wrong lol.

 

[Dancingweapon]

The thread just confuses me in general.

 

[Romper]

Call me stupid if I'm still not understanding this Romper. But here's what I'm getting out of you:

It's okay to have 100cc on primary and AF2 on secondary but he will not be able to get both. Painted got DNC and then he also got 100cc. That is unfair that he got both.

Here's what I'm getting from Alobont:

It's not okay to have 100cc on primary and AF2 on secondary. If you do, you're AF2 becomes primary and not secondary (this is the weird rule that I think shouldn't exist). Painted had 100cc primary and AF2 secondary. I told him to lot without checking this, he won it, and didn't give it back because 100cc was his primary. He left the run and got kicked from shell.

If he's the only DNC on the AF list he's guaranteed the drop. Those that don't have a need for AF2 (either they have better gear or they have their set completed) wont be guaranteed anything because they don't have a need for <insert class piece of af2> so they'd rather have the 100cc to sell or go towards the absurb amount required for a relic weapon. So the rule is there to 1) insure that someone isn't walking out with gear and cash while others aren't 2) give people a reason to stay in Dynamis despite not having a need for armor pieces and 3) to guarantee someone SOMETHING even if their 100cc loot doesn't win they at least walk out with gear if they are the only person on the af2 loot list.

The rule is worded weird, and really is open to interpretation as it assumes that a person places more value in the item slot than they do gil/collecting currency for relic weapon. It takes a mistake in execution of the rules to sometimes fix the rule.

 

[JP]

I don't see how the rule can have the same effect but be worded better. I just don't think there's a need for a rule that makes your secondary lot your primary lot. I understanding wanting to make sure everyone has a chance at something. I understand the whole you shouldn't walk out with both items unless one goes completely free lot. I get what you're saying for the most part Romper, but I don't think it's too relevant to what I'm saying. Pretty much what I'm saying is that the rule itself is weird. Here's how it would of went in just about any other shell:

Rule: You cannot have both 100cc and AF2 on your list. Only either or.
Painted sets "Main: 100cc, Sub: DNC AF2." Painted lots 100cc, even after asking the leader. Done.

There shouldn't be any "you can't lot the 100cc because you set AF as your SECONDARY and AF2 has priority." He shouldn't be able to lot DNC unless it went free lot, I agree with that. But he had 100cc main, that's obviously what he wanted more, and he got it.

 

[Alobont]

The rule is done that way so people who dont need relic can lot something. We dont think its fair if someone can lot relic and 100cc because people who dont need relic can only lot the coin. The 100cc is an incentive for members who have gotten all their relic to show up to city runs.

To correct some things, DNC never did drop, painted only took the coin.

While the rule is worded weird everyone in the shell understands how it works and ive explained it before this happens. Had painted only had 100cc on the list he could of picked up DNC free lot, but since it was on his list it went to his Primary lot. The 100cc is meant for those who dont want anything for that zone. I am working on rewording the rule so we do not see this again.

Honestly I dont see why he kept outside of greed or some crazy thing of entitlement. My shell allows 15 point to be trade for 250k gil and this particular run was a pay out run. I realise its not totally Painteds fault in the matter but He still would not listen nor give the coin back.

 

[jyakotsu]

The rule is done that way so people who dont need relic can lot something. We dont think its fair if someone can lot relic and 100cc because people who dont need relic can only lot the coin. The 100cc is an incentive for members who have gotten all their relic to show up to city runs.

To correct some things, DNC never did drop, painted only took the coin.

While the rule is worded weird everyone in the shell understands how it works and ive explained it before this happens. Had painted only had 100cc on the list he could of picked up DNC free lot, but since it was on his list it went to his Primary lot. The 100cc is meant for those who dont want anything for that zone. I am working on rewording the rule so we do not see this again.

Honestly I dont see why he kept outside of greed or some crazy thing of entitlement. My shell allows 15 point to be trade for 250k gil and this particular run was a pay out run. I realise its not totally Painteds fault in the matter but He still would not listen nor give the coin back.

That made it even worse.... If he had 100CC as a primary and didn't even get DNC relic out of it... plus you said it was ok to lot it... then you are completely in the wrong dude. Painted shouldn't have to give something back if it was his primary and the leader said it was ok to lot. That is like saying "ok personA you can lot the Valor Surcoat, after it drops, oh wait I made a mistake you shouldn't have lotted it because you weren't the points leader... can you drop it?"

 

[Alobont]

That made it even worse.... If he had 100CC as a primary and didn't even get DNC relic out of it... plus you said it was ok to lot it... then you are completely in the wrong dude. Painted shouldn't have to give something back if it was his primary and the leader said it was ok to lot. That is like saying "ok personA you can lot the Valor Surcoat, after it drops, oh wait I made a mistake you shouldn't have lotted it because you weren't the points leader... can you drop it?"

Are you retarded?

I only let him lot in thinking I had made a mistake on the lot list, which I did not under our rules. As the coin is tradeable I figured it was better for him to lot, and if I was right, which I was, then he would give it back. I know its hard for you to understand that Relic takes Priority regardless of position when you have the 100CC listed, but its done that way because you can not lot both in the same run.

If he was on 100cc main and DNC had dropped DNC would of went freelot, we have people that want DNC relic. Then the entire problem would become even worse because Painted would of thought he would of been entitled to lot DNC as it was on his list, but he had lotted the 100cc, hence forth not being allowed to lot DNC.

I have always done that Relic takes priority over the 100cc due to the fact that if you lot the coin you cant lot anything else as your secondary. This makes it so people can not obtain a 100cc and relic in the same run. You can not lot both, everyone else in the shell understands this, and the system has worked fine for over a year.

 

[Divinius]

If he had 100CC as a primary and didn't even get DNC relic out of it... plus you said it was ok to lot it... then you are completely in the wrong dude.

Are you retarded?

Yes, he sure is. But in this case (and I NEVER thought I'd be saying this), I think I actually agree with him, and the others that say you kinda messed up here.

I read your rule, it says ONLY that "You can lot either on 100cc or relic per run".

Nowhere does it say that if someone screws up and puts both on a list, that Relic takes priority. You may have said that in LS, but it's not spelled out in your official rules.

Also, since it doesn't specifically say, that rule could conceivably be interpreted to mean NOT that you can't put both relic and 100cc on your list, just that you can't GET both during a run. Again, you may have said something in LS chat, but the fact is that your rules (as stated) are worded very badly.

I only let him lot in thinking I had made a mistake on the lot list, which I did not under our rules. As the coin is tradeable I figured it was better for him to lot, and if I was right, which I was, then he would give it back. I know its hard for you to understand that Relic takes Priority regardless of position when you have the 100CC listed, but its done that way because you can not lot both in the same run.

If he was on 100cc main and DNC had dropped DNC would of went freelot, we have people that want DNC relic. Then the entire problem would become even worse because Painted would of thought he would of been entitled to lot DNC as it was on his list, but he had lotted the 100cc, hence forth not being allowed to lot DNC.

Maybe, but that's not what happened. If DNC had also dropped, and he did expect to get that too, then yeah, I'd probably agree that he was being unreasonable. But you can't say that he would have expected to lot both, since that situation didn't actually come up. What actually happened, as others have said, is that you allowed him to lot on, and he won, what was his first choice on his list. That's it. Then you asked for it back.

Honestly, if it were me, and you told me after the fact that I misinterpreted your horribly unclear rules, and that I messed up my lot list, and that I can't have the 100 coin I wanted, you told me to lot, and I won, I probably would have kept it too, and not really cared about being kicked.

I don't know this "Painted" guy, and he may indeed be a huge jerk, but in this particular case, I can totally see his point. I'd suggest you clear up your rules to specifically explain how you want your system to work, and confirm with people beforehand if you see someone with a lot list that isn't right. You need to try to avoid this type of misunderstanding in the future.

 

[Alobont]

Lost list is posted before each run for everyone to see. I encourage all people to look it over before the run. I also have explained multiple times to people when they first join, and in LS that you cant lot both and that I will put you on relic over the 100cc. While the rule is unclear on the forums, and will be fixed, I have explained it in great detail to everyone multiple times.

Also its pretty understood that if you have 100cc as main you cant lot relic at all, so why have it on the list? WHy put it down if you know you cant have both. The rules are very clear on that matter. While I take blame for the rule not being 100% crystal clear, he should of given the coin to me so we could arbitrate the situation. In the middle of a run is not that time to have a bitch fest, when you are shooting for a win and directing people around and pulling mobs. I was going to take the coin, hold it and speak with him after the run. Had he agreed I'm sure a compramise could of been made between him and the person who should of won.

{ainted never gave me the chance to explain or arbitrate the situation, he immediatly claimed that the coin was his right to lot and spouted about being in the shell for a long time (a large chunk of the time away from the game actually) and not receiving relic, due to either low points or the sheer fact of things not dropping. ALl I have to say to that is, I have received the least amount of relic in my own damn shell that I lead.

 

[jyakotsu]

Are you retarded?

I only let him lot in thinking I had made a mistake on the lot list, which I did not under our rules. As the coin is tradeable I figured it was better for him to lot, and if I was right, which I was, then he would give it back. I know its hard for you to understand that Relic takes Priority regardless of position when you have the 100CC listed, but its done that way because you can not lot both in the same run.

If he was on 100cc main and DNC had dropped DNC would of went freelot, we have people that want DNC relic. Then the entire problem would become even worse because Painted would of thought he would of been entitled to lot DNC as it was on his list, but he had lotted the 100cc, hence forth not being allowed to lot DNC.

I have always done that Relic takes priority over the 100cc due to the fact that if you lot the coin you cant lot anything else as your secondary. This makes it so people can not obtain a 100cc and relic in the same run. You can not lot both, everyone else in the shell understands this, and the system has worked fine for over a year.

Hmm...
If you look at every sensible person that posted, they've said you shouldn't have told him to lot. It was your fault.

Why should he give something back that his leader told him to lot, especially if it was his primary lot choice. Technically he didn't win both a relic and a 100CC, so he didn't break the rules... and he was asked to give something back he won, and he was flamed for it as well.

 

[jyakotsu]

Lost list is posted before each run for everyone to see. I encourage all people to look it over before the run. I also have explained multiple times to people when they first join, and in LS that you cant lot both and that I will put you on relic over the 100cc. While the rule is unclear on the forums, and will be fixed, I have explained it in great detail to everyone multiple times.

Also its pretty understood that if you have 100cc as main you cant lot relic at all, so why have it on the list? WHy put it down if you know you cant have both. The rules are very clear on that matter. While I take blame for the rule not being 100% crystal clear, he should of given the coin to me so we could arbitrate the situation. In the middle of a run is not that time to have a bitch fest, when you are shooting for a win and directing people around and pulling mobs. I was going to take the coin, hold it and speak with him after the run. Had he agreed I'm sure a compramise could of been made between him and the person who should of won.

{ainted never gave me the chance to explain or arbitrate the situation, he immediatly claimed that the coin was his right to lot and spouted about being in the shell for a long time (a large chunk of the time away from the game actually) and not receiving relic, due to either low points or the sheer fact of things not dropping. ALl I have to say to that is, I have received the least amount of relic in my own damn shell that I lead.

You say that he shouldn't have bitched about it and such, honestly you shouldn't have brought it up MID run to create that bitchfest. You should have said something along the lines of "Painted please stay after the run I need to speak with you" It would have created less drama etc etc.

Div honestly, you say that I keep trying to bring shit up at you, but that comment isn't necessary... If you don't want me to pick shit with you then seriously stop lol.

 

[Cletus]

How hard is it to fix your rule to read the way you want it to? "If you're lotting a coin you can't lot gear unless it goes free lot." Now you've just avoided situations like this and however much time you've taken to explain that poorly written rule. Chalk it up to a mutual disagreement that ended poorly and move on.

 

[jyakotsu]

double post sorry,
Alo seriously no one cares that you haven't gotten relic lol, TBH I didn't get any of my desired relic till a year and a half after I quit the game... ONLY because Kelga dualboxed me in a pickup Xarcabard run.

 

[Divinius]

Lot list is posted before each run for everyone to see. I encourage all people to look it over before the run.

Well, did you look it over before the run? Did you tell Painted, before the run, "Hey, you know you can't do that, right? As it stands you are going to be on DNC lot, because relic takes priority. Is that ok? Or would you rather lot 100cc and wait for DNC to go freelot?"

Also its pretty understood that if you have 100cc as main you cant lot relic at all, so why have it on the list? WHy put it down if you know you cant have both. The rules are very clear on that matter.

Exactly. Anyone that understand the complete rules (including all the clarifications that are NOT in the official rules) wouldn't have put both on the list. Therefore, obviously, he's putting down both because he did NOT understand the rules. It may be "pretty understood" by others, but based on the fact that he put up his lot list the way he did, he must NOT have understood. Call him an idiot for not understanding if you want, but I can easily see how your rules, as stated, could be misinterpreted.

Again, I don't know this guy, and maybe he really is a huge dick. But regardless, your rules are unclear, contain odd stipulations that aren't officially noted, and you didn't do anything before the run to correct what to you was an obviously flawed lot list. I'm not trying to be mean, since I understand how frustrating it can be trying to lead a Dynamis LS, and make sure everything is spelled out right. But to use Jyak's words, "You screwed up, dude."

Div honestly, you say that I keep trying to bring shit up at you, but that comment isn't necessary... If you don't want me to pick shit with you then seriously stop lol.

Yeah, cause you NEVER do anything like that to me. Pot, kettle, dipshit. <3

But we are kinda on the same side for once, we should relish in it. Truce? (at least for this thread)

 

[JP]

I'm slightly annoyed at repeating myself lol. Point-blank, I feel there shouldn't be any rule like that. I now understand what the rule is for, but I feel it's still silly. Yes, you don't want people to get both relic and 100cc and with your rule in place, that probably won't happen. But with that rule it's possible that this going to happen again. The thing is, if someone is on 100cc then they probably won't get the relic anyway so someone else can get it. You can even put in a rule of "if you win 100cc then you can't lot free lot unless it's going to go to the ground." That way you can make sure they don't get two items they want over other people.

I just don't see a need for this whole AF2 priority thing. I would prefer AF2 over gil anyway. So if they want gil over AF2, then let them lot it. There's probably more people lotting the 100cc anyway so they have a lower chance of winning it.

Div honestly, you say that I keep trying to bring shit up at you, but that comment isn't necessary... If you don't want me to pick shit with you then seriously stop lol.

I'm surprised you aren't used to it yet lol.

 

[Duffman]

My comment is more about the rules than the incident with Painted.

I've read the rules on joining, today, and possibly sometime in between. I'm confused too. After the incident with Painted, it's more clear to me how this works. It's just a poor way to learn it.

Most of my relic has been obtained. There are some zones where my main and secondary are now 100c. In those cases, I've been on the lot list. Last night, like four 100c's dropped and I wasn't on any list. That confused me but I didn't say anything. I just assumed everything was kosher. ...and it was. Nothing was wrong.

My windy list is currently:
main: Sorcerer's Gloves
Second: 100c

Other zones have or did have:
main: 100c (because that piece was now obtained)
second: xxgearxxx
and I wasn't on the list... confused


I just assumed, I'm not on the list because... well I don't know. But it's clear now. I understand why they do it this way. Just was a crazy way to really learn it. I know, I know... if it wasn't clear I should've asked. I'm just lazy, and I trust them to know the rules and put me on a list if I'm supposed to be on it.


This is not a way to bring anything private out into the open or anything just relating that the rules are a bit fuzzy in that regard. I understand how Painted was confused but if he was asked to return it, he should've returned it. I do have one thing to say how it felt from a LS audience point of view though. Because I don't know of any possible tells, I only saw the LS chat. Alo went right on the offensive and fast.... dropped F'bomb and everything. I think he did ask nice once, then seconds later the F'bomb version. It might be on the frap he took. I'm just saying, ask nice. That may be why he kept it, dunno. That could by why Tonch left. He got blasted for a mistake pretty hard at the end of a run. Sent tells to me felt he didn’t deserve it. I agree, but didn’t really respond. I was being evasive on that.

 

[Alobont]

I did ask nice in tells Duffman. When it broiled over to LS chat was when I ahd asked nicely 5 times already. I have since cleared up the rules on the forums.

 

[Alobont]

Also Ton left because his RL work load got to much for him, jsut alst night he mentioned he might come back since hes not working 12 hours a day.