Paladin Tier 2 Merits

[Celvantes]

Wanted to broach the subject of Paladin merits to the community at large and see what you all think.

We get four Tier 2 merits:

Fealty (-2 minutes 30 seconds recast per upgrade)
Chivalry (-2 minutes 30 seconds recast per upgrade)
Iron Will (+19% effect per upgrade)
Guardian (+19% effect per upgrade)

Under the old system, it was pretty cut and dried. Chivalry is by far the most useful, and capping it with 3 merits dropped you from a 20 min recast down to 15. Not bad... almost a Paladin Convert.

For the other three slots, I grabbed 2 Guardian merits (since after the Sentinel update, it effectively doubled the usefulness of Sentinel) and took one Fealty merit so that I could have the JA for situational uses.

I didn't even bother with Iron Will since you shouldn't really *need* spell interruption down if you know how and when to cast, *especially* since they changed it to where shield blocks prevent spell interruptions.

So, now they give us 10 merits in Tier 2 as opposed to 6. Capping Chivalry was a no brainer... 10 minute recast is insanely awesome. I'm finding myself hard pressed to burn that much MP in an average 10 minutes of fighting. I'm now able to solo mobs on PLD/WAR that I was only able to solo before only on PLD/DNC or PLD/WHM.

The question remains: where to put the other 2 merits... and should I keep Fealty?

Going with 2 instead of 3 Guardian merits wasn't that big of a deal. 38% instead of 57% reduction in enmity loss during Sentinel wasn't going to be very noticable in the 30 seconds that Sentinel was up. However... with a possible 5 merits in Guardian, that total comes out to 95% (instead of 76%). That's essentially a hate lock for 30 seconds. In zerg situations, you could Sentinel + Invincible to boost your max hate and then *hold* it there at absolute maximum for 30 seconds. Or, you could Invincible, Voke+Flash near the end of the first 30 seconds, and *then* Sentinel to lock in at almost your capped hate for an additional 30 seconds.

Suffice to say, it would be an awesome tool with which to allow your DDs go go nuts. In regular situations, when used in conjunction with your normal hate routine, it would greatly expand your hate-holding potential.

Unfortunately, to get that 95% hate maintenance with Sentinel, I'd have to give up Fealty. And that's a hard call.

Fealty does two things. First: the stated description of giving you a large resistance to enfeebling magic. Second: it blocks enemy Mijin Gakure. I don't know why it does, and no, it makes no sense, but it works. I discovered this quite by accident in Dynamis, and since then, I've tried it repeatedly and it has worked every time. With Fealty up, I've never taken more than about 150 in damage from any Mijin, even ones that have wiped the rest of my party or alliance.

So, I use Fealty for Ninjas and Red Mage mobs, or beasts that spam enfeebling like Marlboros. It is still situational, but it is useful.

That brings me to the final question: Keep Fealty, or get an awesome Sentinel with a fully capped Guardian?

 

[Xzerper]

This will be an interesting thread, I have it saved to see the remarks of the other players. I, myself am planning a tank class job next, so be interesting to see the thoughts about others, and their playstyle

 

[Kalefury]

Well if the fact that Fealty is resisting damage from Mijin Gakure and other area magic attacks is keeping you back from maxing out Guardian and Chivalry, know that Rampart does much of the same thing and even with a perfect/lucky timing you can reduce the damage to 90-95% (maybe 100% but rare, the longer rampart is up the less damage is absorbed) from Mijin Gakure. I know that i have done this many times in Dynamis protecting everyone in my party. (I also play as a galkan so my rampart results will probably be a little different from other races)

But i am also in a situation like yours. having a sweet hate lock for 30 seconds can be great in a lot of situations but also having Fealty as almost another rampart for status effects is great as well.

I think it comes down to whether to specialize in one area or have a little in each. Personally I think maxing both Guardian and Chivalry has a stronger advantage as your whm should be able to cure you of most problems fealty would prevent while having a strong hate tool. While Fealty is more of a non-party situation where -na spells aren't available.

 

[hellstorm]

personally I would go
5 guardian
4 chivalry
1 fealty

This way our get your 95%, keep fealty for them rare occasion and have chivalry every 10:30 which I'm sure you could sustain your mp for 30 seconds more. Did similar thing with my group 1 merits for rdm I only put 2 merits into covert recast instead of 3 which would have drop it a full minute but then I would not be able to put 4 in both ice and wind in the end I said, what's 20 seconds? the mp I save on my spells sticking and lasting longer will make up for it.

 

[Diabllos]

I'd say keep Fealty. As you say, it has it's uses, and I think those you've suggested are valid enough reasons to keep it. If it can save your bacon once every so often, then it's doing it's job, and it's worth keeping. In the long term, it'll improve your overall tanking more-so than capped Guardian I think.

 

[Mystery]

personally I would go
5 guardian
4 chivalry
1 fealty

This way our get your 95%, keep fealty for them rare occasion and have chivalry every 10:30 which I'm sure you could sustain your mp for 30 seconds more. Did similar thing with my group 1 merits for rdm I only put 2 merits into covert recast instead of 3 which would have drop it a full minute but then I would not be able to put 4 in both ice and wind in the end I said, what's 20 seconds? the mp I save on my spells sticking and lasting longer will make up for it.

If I'm not mistaken, by taking one merit out of Chivalry, it would raise the timer to 12:30. Each merit is 2 minutes and 30 seconds, not just 30 seconds.

Fealty does have its uses for example BCNMs and other endgame type mobs. I would say keeping one in Fealty would be a good idea. As for Chivalry maxed out, thats another great choice since it would allow you to be pretty self sufficient in the MP department. That could allow other types of merit shifts like changing HP/MP to all HP in case you have some split. Otherwise you can easily still do 4 Chivalry and leave it at 12:30 since a lot of endgame would have plenty of refresh RDM. It is a bit of a coin toss though. I don't know how useful the extra sentinal percentage would be over the 30 second span but you should consider the extra MP time as enmity control as well as what gears you have to accomodate. I would think it really depends on what you're fighting and what gear you're bringing to the table when you get down to the final merit point. Personally I would go Chivalry 5 Fealty 1 and maybe Guardian at 4.

 

[Altheya]

Ok, I'm seriously missing something here.

If Chivalry recast is 20 mins before upgrade, and each upgrade reduces the recast timer by 2 mins and 30 seconds, shouldn't the original 3 upgrades in Chivalry grant a 12 min 30 sec recast instead of a 15 min recast?

Chivalry is by far the most useful, and capping it with 3 merits dropped you from a 20 min recast down to 15.

If the reduction is 2 min 30 secs each upgrade then 4 upgrades will get you 10 mins recast right?

personally I would go
5 guardian
4 chivalry
1 fealty

This way our get your 95%, keep fealty for them rare occasion and have chivalry every 10:30 which I'm sure you could sustain your mp for 30 seconds more.

If I'm not mistaken, by taking one merit out of Chivalry, it would raise the timer to 12:30. Each merit is 2 minutes and 30 seconds, not just 30 seconds.

Kinda confused here....

 

[Caerloc]

The first merit just buys the ability with, as you say, a 20 minute recast. Each merit AFTER the first then cuts 2.5 minutes.

 

[Kalefury]

nvm Caerloc posted it...

hellstorm seems to have rdm group 2 merits confused with pld group 2 merits where the both have merits that affect timer but rdm is 30sec while pld is 2:30.

 

[jamal]

Fealty is nice, but it's so situational I can't see it being too effective...especially when you can load up on MDB and fire resist gear for NIN-type mobs. If survivability is all your worried about for yourself, you'll be able to do it with equipment.

A pld using sentinel without chance of losing hate is more valuable even in dynamis. If your DD's can ws without need to worry about pulling hate and instadeath, that could save more time per mob then evading a mijin.

So I'd personally go 5/5 Chivalry / Guardian...I'm 5/4 as I had the same setup you did with Fealty, but the ability to max these out is too good to pass up imo.

edit: I'm working towards 5/5...

 

[Altheya]

The first merit just buys the ability with, as you say, a 20 minute recast. Each merit AFTER the first then cuts 2.5 minutes.

Oh I see, I wasn't counting the initial upgrade to get the ability. Thanks!

 

[Pur]

I'm going to go with 5/5 Chiv and 5/5 Guardian. Feality is situational like many things, but going Lv5 on both is just my personal preference.

 

[Coustain]

I am also leaning towards 5/5 for Chivalry and Guardian.

 

[Kotsu]

Go with guardian. More useful for the amount of endgame shit you do man. I mean, let's be honest... with what you typically do man, if you're whm can't keep up with healing the enfeebles then you need another whm.

 

[Celvantes]

Thanks for all the input.

I'm leaning the same way. Fealty is nice, but the hate lock is going to be a much more powerful tool.

We'll see how today's merit parties go. With any luck, I'll have Guardian capped out... too bady they won't give you your merits back when you take one down D:

FYI, my Rampart Magic Shield is 232 normally, 272 on Darksday. It wouldn't be the same as the 90% resist from Fealty, but it would be better than nothing.

 

[Chrisaga]

5/5 Chiv and Guardian 4tw!h34r:

 

[hellstorm]

nvm Caerloc posted it...

hellstorm seems to have rdm group 2 merits confused with pld group 2 merits where the both have merits that affect timer but rdm is 30sec while pld is 2:30.

ya early morning posting :wacko: my mistake rdm is 20 per merit btw, have no idea where got 30 from must have just miss the 2 completely.

Fealty is nice, but it's so situational I can't see it being too effective...especially when you can load up on MDB and fire resist gear for NIN-type mobs. If survivability is all your worried about for yourself, you'll be able to do it with equipment.

A pld using sentinel without chance of losing hate is more valuable even in dynamis. If your DD's can ws without need to worry about pulling hate and instadeath, that could save more time per mob then evading a mijin.

So I'd personally go 5/5 Chivalry / Guardian...I'm 5/4 as I had the same setup you did with Fealty, but the ability to max these out is too good to pass up imo.

edit: I'm working towards 5/5...

Well guardian is pretty much a given to go 5/5, but question is is fealty really that unworth it not to give up 2 min 30 secs on chivalry? Plds have been lasting with chivalry at 3 merits this long and seem to do fine. While yes could do magic d gear stop mijin, but that won't stop binds, silence or para fealty will.

 

[jamal]

Well guardian is pretty much a given to go 5/5, but question is is fealty really that unworth it not to give up 2 min 30 secs on chivalry? Plds have been lasting with chivalry at 3 merits this long and seem to do fine. While yes could do magic d gear stop mijin, but that won't stop binds, silence or para fealty will.

PLD's have been lasting at 3 merits up to this point, but as others get more buffs (5 MIN warrior's charge, etc), it only makes sense to bring this as minimal as possible. 30 seconds per 20 minutes in a 3 hour exp / farming / dynamis session is a combined 4 minutes 30 seconds of resisting enfeebles in 180 minutes of time spent...in that same time frame, you could have used Chivalry 18 times, 4+ more times then if it was a 12:30 recast.

 

[Celvantes]

That and when I'm doing any sort of burn party, even with full DD setup, I'm flying through my MP to keep hate. I did 6ish merits or so a couple days ago and I was maxing out my Chivarly timer, even at 10 minutes.

I'm thinking 5/5 Chivalry and 5/5 Guardian is definitely the way to go. The *only* case I can think of that you would *need* Fealty is if you were tanking JoL frequently.

 

[Tomasello]

PLD's have been lasting at 3 merits up to this point, but as others get more buffs (5 MIN warrior's charge, etc), it only makes sense to bring this as minimal as possible. 30 seconds per 20 minutes in a 3 hour exp / farming / dynamis session is a combined 4 minutes 30 seconds of resisting enfeebles in 180 minutes of time spent...in that same time frame, you could have used Chivalry 18 times, 4+ more times then if it was a 12:30 recast.

The only reason to have 1 merit into fealty would be in a specialty type zerg situation. Something to throw on top invincible for that little extra something, something. I think its nice if your zerging down something like for example dynamis lord, and you have Invincible on, not to have him hit you with one of his nasty aoe enfeebles. Plenty of mobs in this game are Invincible / zerged. I'm probably going to go 4 Chiv / 5 Guardian / 1 Fealty for this reason. Not to pop it every 20 mins for no reason but to have an Invincible +1...