philosophy of suicide.

[Kohra]

if a person causes pain to others, and continued misunderstandings, which seem to have negative effects in the extreme to those around them; if a person has become a burden, is it not better to just go? would this not be an act to free everyone involved? If i'm not here, i can't cause anymore upset to the people i care about.

discuss.

(feel free to spam me with hate or suggest this is an attention getting tactic. i expect no less. however, would be nice to have some philosophical discussion on the matter apart from the standard "you selfish prick" reactions to suggested suicide.) :blush2:

 

[Tristam Green]

i highly suggest seeking professional help, in lieu of "philosophical discussion" on a gaming-related message board concerning this extremely sensitive and inflammatory topic.

 

[Kohra]

i was seeking a discussion, not help. and i posted in the RL section, not the game section. but thank you for taking the time to give a predictable response.

 

[naue]

I think you should first think about why you believe your existence is a burden on others, and is causing pain to the ones you love. Is this notion in your mind solely, or actually true.

Either way, by taking your own life, you will only be causing a larger amount of pain and emotional burden to the people you love.

So it is not a good decision no matter how you look at it. There will always be a better day tomorrow, and you control your own life.

 

[exodusamphi]

I think suicide is the most selfish thing one can do to themselves and loved ones.

EVERY SINGLE SITUATION has a way to be resolved. Fuck this "Im too depressed" or "If i end it it will be better"

Death is Death, your born in this world for a god damn reason and I personnaly think that ANYONE who kills themselves deserves to burn in hell.

Sure you can bring up situations that could seem reasonable for suicide over living, (I.E. syanide pills for astronauts in extreme situations), but I still believe that giving up on your own life is the ultimate slap in the face to everyone, and their god (religious or not)

 

[Myrrh]

Suicide is never a fucking option. Only weak minded people think it's a good answer to life being hard. I'm a giant burden on my family and I continue to live everyday out. My mom almost got fired from her job because I got sick while we were on vacation and she had to spend an extra week with me in the hospital.

There is no fucking discussion on whether or not suicide is okay. Life is fucking precious and shouldn't be wasted.

As I get older and my illness gets worse I will only become a bigger burden on those around me. Sure, it hurts to see those around me slowly watch me die but that shows how much I'm loved in this world.

Suicide is never a fucking option, ever. Pull your fucking head out of your fucking ass and live life. There are people who have it much worse and still wake up with a smile. Life shouldn't be wasted no matter what.

 

[Kohra]

Either way, by taking your own life, you will only be causing a larger amount of pain and emotional burden to the people you love.

well, if the feelings are not reciprocated, then (in theory) there shouldn't be any more pain and suffering to the people you are affecting. but we all know how practical theories are. :biggrin:

I still believe that giving up on your own life is the ultimate slap in the face to everyone, and their god (religious or not)

so you feel that suicide is a parting shot to everyone that knows you, regardless of the circumstances?

also, not everyone feels there is a god, but that's a whole other topic. i'm agnostic myself.

 

[Kohra]

Suicide is never a fucking option. Only weak minded people think it's a good answer to life being hard. I'm a giant burden on my family and I continue to live everyday out. My mom almost got fired from her job because I got sick while we were on vacation and she had to spend an extra week with me in the hospital.

There is no fucking discussion on whether or not suicide is okay. Life is fucking precious and shouldn't be wasted.

As I get older and my illness gets worse I will only become a bigger burden on those around me. Sure, it hurts to see those around me slowly watch me die but that shows how much I'm loved in this world.

Suicide is never a fucking option, ever. Pull your fucking head out of your fucking ass and live life. There are people who have it much worse and still wake up with a smile. Life shouldn't be wasted no matter what.

i specifically didn't go into the details of my life because i didn't want this to be an "oh woe is me thread", so i fail to see how you could possibly know if someone has it worse than me or not. *shrugs* i'm just curious on how other's feel about the subject. i'm sorry to hear you're not well myrrh, though i commend your bravery, and your family's.

 

[Hexx]

if a person causes pain to others, and continued misunderstandings, which seem to have negative effects in the extreme to those around them; if a person has become a burden, is it not better to just go? would this not be an act to free everyone involved? If i'm not here, i can't cause anymore upset to the people i care about.

discuss.

(feel free to spam me with hate or suggest this is an attention getting tactic. i expect no less. however, would be nice to have some philosophical discussion on the matter apart from the standard "you selfish prick" reactions to suggested suicide.) :blush2:

Well, just because YOU feel like you're a burden doesnt actually MEAN that you're a burden. If a loved one tells you something like that, either A) they really didn't mean it (we all say stupid shit when we are angry); B) are touched in the head; or C) seriously don't know what they are talking about.

You NOT being there will actually CAUSE more problems for the people that care for you man. Remember that your absence can affect people who you never figured would care about you

 

[exodusamphi]

well, if the feelings are not reciprocated, then (in theory) there shouldn't be any more pain and suffering to the people you are affecting. but we all know how practical theories are. :biggrin:



so you feel that suicide is a parting shot to everyone that knows you, regardless of the circumstances?

also, not everyone feels there is a god, but that's a whole other topic. i'm agnostic myself.

The god thing was if your believe you slap him in the face, if you dont believe you slap everyone in the face, not meant to say that God is real and blah blah none of that.

Suicide is a hey fuck you im more important than you action. Everyone has done that kind of action in one shape or form, but Suicide takes the cake. It shows you have no respect for those around you. When your family has to work 3 jobs to keep you alive or take care of you, commiting suicide is like "Hey, fuck you guys, fuck your hard work, fuck your love, im out!". If you were tied to a chair and had the option to get slowly carved to death, or shoot your own self in the head, shooting yourself in the head shows you have no hope, shows your a coward, and such.

No matter what the circumstances, in my highly held opinion, suicide shows a TREMENDOUS (sp?) lack of character, nuff said.

Edit: Kind of worded the torture scenario wrong, ill elaborate if you point out any questions.

 

[Kohra]

You NOT being there will actually CAUSE more problems for the people that care for you man. Remember that your absence can affect people who you never figured would care about you

what problems did you have in mind?

and yes, i'm always amazed at the people that come out of the woodwork when someone they know has suicided.

 

[exodusamphi]

Also, theres too many "what ifs" in life.

If your terminal, what if something comes up that could save or extend your life.

If your stranded on an island, what if a plane flies over and sees you?

If your upset because the love of your life absolutely hates you now and the only way out is suicide, what if you work the relationship out? This is one of the biggest culprits imo, any relationship can be fixed enough that at minimum you arent at each others throats all the time.

Finally, because im tired of typing on this laptop keybored, your broke, with a child, and no husband/wife, what if your family and friends help, or god forbid you win the lottery, etc. Taking your life will absolutely RUIN your childs.

what problems did you have in mind?

and yes, i'm always amazed at the people that come out of the woodwork when someone they know has suicided.

More people than you can fathom rely on a part of you. Work requires your presence, your family... well we know, the random cashier at walmart that you put a smile on their face, the bum you could have made their day by giving them a dollar, i think those can be problems when all of a sudden your gone for ever.

 

[Kohra]

Suicide is a hey fuck you im more important than you action. Everyone has done that kind of action in one shape or form, but Suicide takes the cake. It shows you have no respect for those around you. When your family has to work 3 jobs to keep you alive or take care of you, commiting suicide is like "Hey, fuck you guys, fuck your hard work, fuck your love, im out!". If you were tied to a chair and had the option to get slowly carved to death, or shoot your own self in the head, shooting yourself in the head shows you have no hope, shows your a coward, and such.

I can see where you're coming from, but what if the person was trying to free their family of having to work so hard? i don't think that's a slap in that face, but i'm looking at it from a different angle.

i get the chair thing, but think it's a rather silly comment to make. mainly because unless you've actually been in that situation how could you possibly contemplate that much physical and psychological pain? i certainly can't conceive of it. i think that sort of outlook is perpetuated by the male cultural enigma of "must be super tough and show no weakness whatsoever". but then, i've always taken a rather disdainful look on that sort of phenomenon.

 

[Kohra]

Also, theres too many "what ifs" in life.

I have to agree with you on this; life does have this way of throwing very unpredictable things at us.

 

[exodusamphi]

Dont get me wrong, I know where your coming from. I have an incredible outlook on life, and where it can lead. Thats why im so against it (suicide)

 

[Hexx]

what problems did you have in mind?

and yes, i'm always amazed at the people that come out of the woodwork when someone they know has suicided.

Problems such as pain to those who cared for one, additional expenses (funerary and whatnot). Keep in mind, ANY death has far reaching consequences. For all you know, if you died lets say, someone else may die in the future cuz of it, either because you were that one person to become a ray of sunshine, or because you were meant to be that hero that saved someone from a life threatening ordeal. I know it sounds far-fetched, but our decisions now ALWAYS have far reaching repercussions my friend.

 

[Kohra]

additional expenses (funerary and whatnot).

i lol'd, as this was the first thing that popped into my head.

 

[Trippyhippy]

I can see where you're coming from, but what if the person was trying to free their family of having to work so hard? i don't think that's a slap in that face, but i'm looking at it from a different angle.

No one HAS to work hard because of you. The people that you feel you are a burden to allow you to be a burden because they love you. They choose to work hard in hopes it will allow you to become self sufficient. If you decided to end your life, you are taking something that they have been working very hard to improve and destroying it beyond repair forever.

On the topic of suicide in general...

I thought about it several times myself. I have epilepsy, and for a few years I was having so many seizures, I was unable to work or drive, and it was unsafe for me to be alone if I needed to do something such as cook or bathe. I tried several different medications over that time period. Depakote, Dilantin, Trileptal, Valium, Klonopin, Tegretol and several others. Part of my depression most likely came from the drugs, but that didn't make it any less real.

Every time I thought about suicide, I just thought about what my funeral would be like. Thinking of all those people that I know and love mourning my death, that made me feel even worse.

If you have children or siblings, or if your parents are still alive, I would suggest you think of them when the feeling hits you.

Just remember, the deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain. Life is nothing more than a series of peaks and valleys. This is most likely the deepest valley you have ever seen. You should be looking forward to climbing the tallest peak that will come after you reach the bottom of your valley.

I could say more, but many people have expressed my feelings on the matter much better than I ever could.

"Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem." -Phil Donahue

“Anyone desperate enough for suicide...should be desperate enough to go to creative extremes to solve problems: elope at midnight, stow away on the boat to New Zealand and start over, do what they always wanted to do but were afraid to try.” -Richard Bach

“The most authentic thing about us is our capacity to create, to overcome, to endure, to transform, to love and to be greater than our suffering.” -Ben Okri

“As anyone who has been close to someone that has committed suicide knows, there is no other pain like that felt after the incident” -Peter Greene

“The thought of suicide is a powerful solace: by means of it one gets through many a bad night” -Friedrich Nietzsche

“There is but one truly serious philosophical problem and that is suicide.” -Albert Camus

And to the people who say killing yourself is the cowards way out...

“Suicide sometimes proceeds from cowardice, but not always; for cowardice sometimes prevents it; since as many live because they are afraid to die, as die because they are afraid to live” -Charles Caleb Colton

 

[Grandphoenix]

inb4 the Darwinist (lol) historically suicide has always been around granted for different reasons than today's average teenager commits it for but lets say a samurai committing suppuku which was just a ritualistic performance of suicide to retain honor for them and their family.

Personally, when I grow older if I live that long when I'm ready I rather commit some form of suicide just to know I left the world on my own terms.

Aside from that if say critically fucked up in a hospital bed with low odds of recovery and having to suffer horrible pains, being disfigured, becoming a vegetable with every passing day it wouldn't be worth it to me. Given I'd try to put up with it so long but eventually I'd say my goodbyes and tell them pull the plug.

I'll probably get the backlash of this but it's like when you decide to put a dog to sleep normally you do it because it has cancer or some other ailment and you know they are suffering everyday. Why can't humans decide to do this for themselves?

 

[Kohra]

This is turning into a rather interesting discussion, which is exceeding my expectations. Everyone's bringing up great points, and i'm happy to see there has been a minimum of angry "you selfish jerk" type answers. I like that exo went into further details about how he feels, and trippy, the quotes you added were great. the nietzsche one in particular made me smile. in regards to animal euthinaisia, i've always puzzled over the line we as a society draw between allowing pets (who i consider family members) to end their suffering but force our human counterparts to agonize through it.