philosophy of suicide.

This isn't about animals since they aren't trying to kill themselves. When my dogs start grabbing razors to cut their paws then we can start contemplating that. Humans and animals are two completely different things.

Putting animals to sleep when their sick and dying can be(I said CAN BE) the same as pulling the plug on someone so sick they sit there everywhere day with tubes in their throats and body, unable to move or speak.(There is actually someone like that at my hospital, he's been there for 2+ years, his family is there everyday cleaning him and sitting by his side.)

Suicide is nothing like deciding when someone is so ill that it would be easier for them to be dead. Suicide is the cowards way out. That's one of the biggest things I hate. Life is fucking short(trust me I know, the changes of me living past 24~25 is so low it's depressing) but people still manage to wake up everyday and live that day regardless.

Everyone gets depressed. I'm not saying people shouldn't be depressed but saying suicide will make life for those around you is a fucking lie and a sad fucking excuse because you are weak minded. And I don't care if I get in shit for calling you a weak minded fuck. This thread pisses me off to no end.
 
Humans and animals are two completely different things however we are animals in the end. I recall some species of wolf that's quite rare and we caught one instead of being captured in a cage it decided to stick it's head through the bars and snap it's neck.

I'm a hemophiliac any slight bruise or cut could kill me any time but you know what if I have that occasional huge zit I'll pop it to hell and back guess that's just me committing suicide subconsciously.

Statistically the rates of suicide are higher in countries such as the U.S. where people have more freedom. Suicide is at a higher rate for rich white males than poor black women even though they are "better off".

11.9 suicides per 100,000 white males is more than twice the rates of black males during 2001. The rate of suicide from white males is 4x as much than a white woman. The rates of suicide from a black male is 5x as much than a black woman.

That's all I got for now
 
exodusamphi said:
Also, theres too many "what ifs" in life.
Click to expand...

This.

Life could seem like the shit of all shits, and who knows you might win the lottery tomorrow and BAM you're living the fucking high life on easy street. Now it may not be likely, but fuck its possible. Shit can change so quick so fast and you never know whats around the corner, suicide is just an absolutely fucking ridiculous idea to me.

I saw in your profile you're 31. If anything dude just pack up your shit and leave. Save up some money and take a bus somewhere and start over. You got plenty of time to swing shit in the other direction and if you think you're a burden on other people by leaving then yes you could be lifting that burden, however you're not severing shit completely should things ever change.
 
Trippyhippy said:
No one HAS to work hard because of you. The people that you feel you are a burden to allow you to be a burden because they love you. They choose to work hard in hopes it will allow you to become self sufficient. If you decided to end your life, you are taking something that they have been working very hard to improve and destroying it beyond repair forever.
Click to expand...

This is as true as it gets. As someone who's been in the "burdened" position before, I can say, from personal experience, suicide would be the ultimate slap in the face to those trying to help you, and the emotional damages from dealing with a suicide would definitely outweigh any physical burden you place on those close to you. Worrying whether or not someone will kill themselves on a daily basis, is a terrible feeling, and the actual loss would be one of the worst experiences that someone can have. The people you once burdened will feel extremely guilty, they'll tell themselves "What if I..", and play countless what if scenarios that could of saved you. What was once a "burden" becomes a giant mass of self guilt, something that'll be impossible to ever resolve or repent for (whether or not it was their fault, people will blame themselves for it). Other emotions may include anger towards you, followed by extreme guilt for being angry at someone who's now dead, the mix of emotions is strong enough to break many people, and it's something that I've been close enough to feeling that I would never wish it upon anyone to go through it, the entire experience can be outright maddening even for the most well grounded of people.

I've never been in the position where I wanted to kill myself, so I can't speak for those that have been, but I can tell you this, telling yourself that you're a burden to others, and that they're better off is outright wrong. Just like "we" don't know how you feel, you don't know how "we" feel. Killing yourself for the benefit of others is lying to yourself, or assuming things that aren't true, and at worst, it's a rationalization meant to make killing yourself easier, it's always easier to do something when you think it's the right thing to do, convince yourself that you're doing the world a favor, and suicide can feel a lot easier to commit, but it is very rarely the case where a suicide results in a net benefit to society.

----


If you want to look at this in a cold manner with no room for emotions, consider the amount of taxes and guardian's money that went into raising someone, the expectation is that a child pays everything back over 30-40 years of working, they help support the elderly that once supported them, while they keep society going. All the tax money that goes into an education, all the money to feed you before you could have a job, you're supposed to be a burden into late teens to mid twenties, but then you're supposed to output many times the initial investment, an early death is a net loss to society. Many industrialized nations are having trouble with birthrates being below replacement rate, they're making programs to encourage population growth, being that they're having a population issue, any death from a car accident to suicide results in a net loss to society. Even a late bloomer (bums out till in their 30's or more) has the potential to make back all or at least some of the cost to society, however a dead person does not have that potential at all.

----

In a more general sense: I think suicide should never be used unless death is certain in the near future anyways. For example, if you have 1 month to live before a disease kills you, but it'll be a horribly painful month, or an astronaut gets separated from vehicle and will die after oxygen runs out, and probably the most recent and known event where many people killed themselves to avoid suffering: the people who jumped out the windows during 9/11. Also note, the places I've mentioned it being okay aren't counted as suicides when death toll figures are made up.

-----

So in short, suicide is very very rarely a benefit to humanity at large or to people known on a personal level, which is why a lot of people consider suicide selfish. As for ending personal suffering, trippy has the quote I would of said, "Suicide is a permanent solution for a temporary problem", whatever you're feeling, how sure are you it's gonna last forever? Consider how long you've been feeling that way, and how long a lifespan is (~75years), and ask is it worth sacrificing any possibility of future happiness for issues that may pass relatively quickly.
 
Myrrh said:
This thread pisses me off to no end.
Click to expand...

you are free to speak your mind if you like. however, if this thread is upsetting you, you could always self-censor yourself and stop reading it? that seems like the logical thing to do.
 
Kohra said:
you are free to speak your mind if you like. however, if this thread is upsetting you, you could always self-censor yourself and stop reading it? that seems like the logical thing to do.
Click to expand...

Ummm....No? This is a topic that I have strong feelings towards. I'm not going to let some emo baby ask people on a VIDEO GAME BOARD ask if it's okay to commit suicide.
 
very nice post daveman. looking at someone as a financial investment to society is an argument i've not heard before. :thumbsup:
 
Kohra said:
if a person causes pain to others, and continued misunderstandings, which seem to have negative effects in the extreme to those around them; if a person has become a burden, is it not better to just go? would this not be an act to free everyone involved? If i'm not here, i can't cause anymore upset to the people i care about.

discuss.

(feel free to spam me with hate or suggest this is an attention getting tactic. i expect no less. however, would be nice to have some philosophical discussion on the matter apart from the standard "you selfish prick" reactions to suggested suicide.) :blush2:
Click to expand...

Time for me to sound kinda cold but this is the way i feel

If you want to kill yourself ... go for it... its your choice... i like most others probably agree that it is a horrendously bad one but it is still your choice to make. The problem with this choice compared to others is that this one is that its pretty damn impossible to learn from it if you screw up. Well.. actually i guess you could only learn from it if you screw up.

There are times I'm sure where suicide feels like the right answer but it is a permanent fix to what i can almost guarantee is a temporary problem. Who cares what other people think about you now or after you choose to commit suicide stop playing the victim and do something about it instead of just acting like a bitch.
 
Myrrh said:
This is a topic that I have strong feelings towards. I'm not going to let some emo baby ask people on a VIDEO GAME BOARD ask if it's okay to commit suicide.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry you feel the need to jump onto name calling to try and get your point across. Strickly speaking i never asked at any point if it was ok to commit suicide. i asked some questions regarding it's effects on those in close contact the suicider, and for some philosophical discussion on the matter. I appreciate your point of view, and understand where you're coming from. I can also see how it would make you angry. I would like to point out however, that if someone were actually serious about committing suicide it is unlikely that they would talk about it to anyone for fear of intervention. That includes a forum board.
 
There is no philosophy on suicide, there is no making it easier on those around after you kill yourself, there is no happiness. There is nothing. Once you're dead, you're dead. That's it. You won't make anyone happier, you won't fix anything. Life is fucking PRECIOUS. It doesn't matter how bad you think you have it, killing yourself isn't even close to an answer. I have actually slapped an emo who had cuts on their wrist because it pisses me off so much.

And what ever happened to Goths? I liked them, they were fun to talk to.


And me calling you an emo baby is no where close to name calling. I'm holding back here.
 
Myrrh said:
There is no philosophy on suicide
Click to expand...

i think you must have missed all the posts in this thread that -have- discussed this philosophically.

Myrrh said:
And what ever happened to Goths? I liked them, they were fun to talk to.
Click to expand...

I generally am fun to talk to, i just happened to hit on a topic that upsets you. I however don't feel i should censor myself in what has thus far been a civilized discussion.
 
You're being very close minded though..

Dare I even mention "Natural Selection"
 
Grandphoenix said:
You're being very close minded though..
Click to expand...

I find generally that when someone feel so zealously about their opinion on a topic, it's next to impossible for them to look at other points of view.

Voice your opinion Grand. If Myrrh gets upset about it, it's really her own fault for continuing to subject herself to the topic that's getting her so worked up.
 
Kohra said:
I find generally that when someone feel so zealously about their opinion on a topic, it's next to impossible for them to look at other points of view.

Voice your opinion Grand. If Myrrh gets upset about it, it's really her own fault for continuing to subject herself to the topic that's getting her so worked up.
Click to expand...

Meh I'm neutral on it and he has his right to his opinions and either way you're both crazy Canadians!
 
Grandphoenix said:
Meh I'm neutral on it and he has his right to his opinions and either way you're both crazy Canadians!
Click to expand...

of course he does. if i thought otherwise i'd have started in on some argument, or gotten angry...or something along those lines. ikd. what's generally done when trying to suppress another person's thoughts? lol.

yeah, us crazy cannuks! i'm sure i should include something about hosers here.... or a joke involving a canoe and/or a moose... *ponders*
 
First, I have a penis.

Second, I'm plenty open minded. Please, tell me what can come out of killing yourself? My illness is forever lasting, it will never get better, only worse. I will never kill myself since it would make the pain of those around me only worse. I'm not strong willed or any of that crap. I'm just smart enough to know that when you're dead, you're dead. THAT'S IT. You're life is over.

If you come to me with a good argument then maybe I'll change my mind or calm down but all you've posted was crap telling me to not post. Daveman made an excellent post.

Also, when a person starts a thread with "when a person blah blah blah" it's generally assumed they're talking about themselves. It's like going to a doctor or something and saying "I have a friend who". For all we know you could just be wanting conformation on whether or not you should go through with it. You had a very short OP with very little info about anything. You just started with some crap about being a pain on others and asked for a philosophical discussion about suicide then told people to spam you with hate.
 
I like to think I'm an advocate of Euthanasia. If it turns out that when I'm 85, I contract some form of lethal disease which will riddle my body and leave me a vegetable, I would rather sign some papers, spend some time with loved ones and be allowed to die with the peace and dignity I deserve.

That being said, there is a very large distinction between that scenario, and wanting to commit suicide because life isn't peachy right now. The truth of the matter is, most people who consider suicide have the possibility of a full and happy life ahead of them, they are merely blind-sighted by the difficulty of present circumstances. Bad times come and go, it's life. What about the people who don't have that liberty? What about those who crave a full life, but die without the option? Can you give them life?

Edit: Also, let me dispel any delusions you may have about death. When I was fifteen I use to do competitive diving. During a training session, I slipped on the ten metre platform, hit my head on the edge and fell into the pool. I was lucky my coach was there to fish me out, but I suffered extensive head trauma and flat-lined once on the way to the hospital and again when I got there. Death isn't embracing. You don't see lights, or hear trumpets. There isn't someone there waiting for you and your problems don't just dissolve. It's just nothingness. A dark, cold expanse of fucking nothing.
 
Last edited:
A psychologist once told me that people who extreme sorrow may be the only ones who can feel what real joy and happiness is. or something along those lines it's late don't judge me.

It's natural to feel thoughts of suicide every now and then, if it becomes persistent then yes help is a good option to look into.

Religiously you'll burn in hell forever etc etc. I'm not religious so won't dwell on that aspect of it.

ITT: Life's over-rated. Let's go back to old time England where suicide was punishable by death LOL so you know your suicide attempt failed but now we're going to kill you anyways sounds like a win-win situation right there.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top