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I wish the Macauhuitl was around when I was levelling, but it would have been hard choosing it over the very sexy looking Espadon +1.
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Like was brought up earlier in the link to the japanese article about Enmity, there are two forms of Enmity. Volatile, which is reduced over time, and cumulative. Each are counted seperate of eachother, but kind of "added together" to calculate your total hate. Flash, stun, benediction, invincible and most other abilities are forms of volatile hate. However, what that page does not mmention is that most offensive spells such as elemental nukes seem to have both volatile and cumulative hate, in that the spell itself causes cumulative hate, but the damage from the nuke causes volatile hate. Although that's only from personal experience, and might be explained by the tanks sucking.
Both forms of hate have a cap. Thus, two paladins with different equipment can both keep the same amount of hate during a long fight, but the one with more enmity will reach it faster. Oce it is reached, you only need as much enmity that it will cap you out on each seperate list when you perform an action with the corresponding hate type.
Thus, to be the best PLD you can be, you need to try and keep both types of hates as high as possible.
While there is no clear facts, nor does the article mention it, that volatile and cumulative are stacked together at the end, it is the only way to explain why WHMes, which SHOULD get high amounts of cumulative hate during a long fight, does not pull hate. Which could be explained by there not being a hate cap. However, there has to be an hate cap, since towards the end of long fights, both PLD's, with different amount of +enmity, will have an equal amount of hate.
The third option is that + and - enmity reduce and increase the time at which hate is lost, and also how much is lost when getting hit. There is no doubt about the importance of getting hit as a WHM during long fights, but considering how rare it is for a WHM to actually pull hate, Enmity must work in strange ways.
Either way, I highly reccomend that you use MP refresh drinks pre-37 to keep your MP high, thus giving you more MP to cure others with. As mentioned earlier, Cure gives cumulative hate, which is not reduced as time goes by, but is only reduced by getting hit. Most hate tools you have (excpt for Provoke), is cumulative. So almost the only way to keep hate pre-37 is to keep your cumulative hate as high as possible. So invest in Enmity equipment to make your Cures give more hate, and cure others once they get hit by AoE's, since, if done right, they should not pull hate otherwise.
Both forms of hate have a cap. Thus, two paladins with different equipment can both keep the same amount of hate during a long fight, but the one with more enmity will reach it faster. Oce it is reached, you only need as much enmity that it will cap you out on each seperate list when you perform an action with the corresponding hate type.
Thus, to be the best PLD you can be, you need to try and keep both types of hates as high as possible.
While there is no clear facts, nor does the article mention it, that volatile and cumulative are stacked together at the end, it is the only way to explain why WHMes, which SHOULD get high amounts of cumulative hate during a long fight, does not pull hate. Which could be explained by there not being a hate cap. However, there has to be an hate cap, since towards the end of long fights, both PLD's, with different amount of +enmity, will have an equal amount of hate.
The third option is that + and - enmity reduce and increase the time at which hate is lost, and also how much is lost when getting hit. There is no doubt about the importance of getting hit as a WHM during long fights, but considering how rare it is for a WHM to actually pull hate, Enmity must work in strange ways.
Either way, I highly reccomend that you use MP refresh drinks pre-37 to keep your MP high, thus giving you more MP to cure others with. As mentioned earlier, Cure gives cumulative hate, which is not reduced as time goes by, but is only reduced by getting hit. Most hate tools you have (excpt for Provoke), is cumulative. So almost the only way to keep hate pre-37 is to keep your cumulative hate as high as possible. So invest in Enmity equipment to make your Cures give more hate, and cure others once they get hit by AoE's, since, if done right, they should not pull hate otherwise.
Retards stay in there flameboard pin with the rest of the dogs please. Buh bie now
I wasn't even trying to flame you. You by your own admission (right word?) have involved yourself with RMT, and I was pointing out you may infact might not have actually leveled NIN.
The reason I brought it up was this line, if you didn't actually level NIN yourself, you wouldn't know how NIN hate holding would make PLD hate holding so easy.
I guess you're insecure about your RMT activities and have decided to lash out at me, well, I guess if my credit card was maxed with IGE purchases I'd need someone to lash out at as well.
not ruining this thread with your bs meeze, pm me or flame me if you got a issues don't go crapping on a informative thread.
I wasn't flaming you lol, you flamed me.
Well I'm sorry, no I didn't buy passions I've grinded every lvl on her except when my wife plays with me, I let her play the girl char on the tv
Anyways, back on topic I'm 18 now and the have been great suggestions guys thank you /bow. And wtf is this about pld not holding hate 65+? Comeone I never lost hate on nin.... when I actually got a full party lol. I thought pld was supposed to be the mean hate manager mr can hold hate no matter what? /tisk /tisk nin must be better
anyways ill keep these things handy as I lvl along.Peace
Panispass
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PLD has a harder time holding hate when kills are fast enough that you don't always have a hate tool available, and damage is mitigated rather than cured (so you can't cure for hate), and other jobs get and/or hold hate by melee damage output rather than traditional tanking methods. And PLDs aren't known for their melee damage output (though they can gear up for it reasonably - still not in the same league of damage dealer as the real DDs, but they can do it well enough that they can get a fair bit of hate from damage output).
Not to mention faster kills means less time per mob, which means less MP regenerated per mob, which means less MP available to spend per mob. (Of course, that's somewhat cancelled by the fact that mobs die fast enough that you don't need to *spend* much MP either...)
Not to mention faster kills means less time per mob, which means less MP regenerated per mob, which means less MP available to spend per mob. (Of course, that's somewhat cancelled by the fact that mobs die fast enough that you don't need to *spend* much MP either...)
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That's why NIN's are good tanks. Melee attacks are cumulative hate, and since they can usually keep up with other melees, they can easily stay above the other melees hate-wise through one or two enfeebles, a provoke and some +enmity.
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Honestly hate holding levels 10-49 is really easy. Melee don't have much gear that they can get that makes omgleet damage so holding hate is easier than you think. It's the 50+ that really gets you. Not only do things like AF, Haubergeon, Scorpion Harness, etc. come along, you also start killing Aht Urhgan mobs. These are pretty much every melee's wet dream. Low HP, low defense, piercing weakness for those RNGs and DRGs out there. They are, however, a tank's nightmare.
Colibri steal your food and your TP, and reflect your flashes. Eruca incinerate you for 800+ if you get unlucky (which will happen). Imps are probably the worst though, they make it so you can't use JAs and pretty much have to rely on flash as your only hate tool half the time. The level III single target spells and level II -agas don't help either.
Remember to voke every 30 seconds, and flash every 45 (If you are hasted, this will be less). The three JAs that give provoke-like hate are Sentinel (level 30), Rampart (level 62), and Warcry (level 70). When you have only Sentinel, you should be using it every 3 fights w/ its 5 minute recast. When you get Rampart, alternate that and Sentinel, and you'll have 1 fight where you won't use either. At level 70, you can now cycle Sentinel-Rampart-Warcry every three fights. Also, at level 50+, Defender should be kept up constantly.
Shield Bash is a different story, if you are up against a spellcasting mob, save it until the monster casts a spell that could potentially do you harm, it has a pretty good rate for interrupting spells. If not, I never really found it that useful, it's not that great as far as it being used as a hate tool goes.
For WSes, stick to Red Lotus Blade until you can get Spirits Within. At which point a 300% TP Spirits Within is your best damaging WS. You get Vorpal Blade and Swift Blade, which can be tempting, but they aren't worth it since your accuracy is a suckfest to begin with. Even as a taru you should be doing 500~ damage at full/near full HP.
Finally, amidst all this chaos of trying to keep hate. Fill in the holes with cures. Overcuring may happen at first, but this should go away naturally as you progress through the levels.
A lot of this was covered already, but I couldn't help but feel the need to post my two cents, I hope I helped.
Colibri steal your food and your TP, and reflect your flashes. Eruca incinerate you for 800+ if you get unlucky (which will happen). Imps are probably the worst though, they make it so you can't use JAs and pretty much have to rely on flash as your only hate tool half the time. The level III single target spells and level II -agas don't help either.
Remember to voke every 30 seconds, and flash every 45 (If you are hasted, this will be less). The three JAs that give provoke-like hate are Sentinel (level 30), Rampart (level 62), and Warcry (level 70). When you have only Sentinel, you should be using it every 3 fights w/ its 5 minute recast. When you get Rampart, alternate that and Sentinel, and you'll have 1 fight where you won't use either. At level 70, you can now cycle Sentinel-Rampart-Warcry every three fights. Also, at level 50+, Defender should be kept up constantly.
Shield Bash is a different story, if you are up against a spellcasting mob, save it until the monster casts a spell that could potentially do you harm, it has a pretty good rate for interrupting spells. If not, I never really found it that useful, it's not that great as far as it being used as a hate tool goes.
For WSes, stick to Red Lotus Blade until you can get Spirits Within. At which point a 300% TP Spirits Within is your best damaging WS. You get Vorpal Blade and Swift Blade, which can be tempting, but they aren't worth it since your accuracy is a suckfest to begin with. Even as a taru you should be doing 500~ damage at full/near full HP.
Finally, amidst all this chaos of trying to keep hate. Fill in the holes with cures. Overcuring may happen at first, but this should go away naturally as you progress through the levels.
A lot of this was covered already, but I couldn't help but feel the need to post my two cents, I hope I helped.