Pros and Cons of Dragoon and Ninja

is ur char name Gavin?
i dont want to end up sending stuff to the wrong person rofl.
 
his name is gavyne :)
feel free to add me to your friends list and send me a tell anytime.
I'm always up for a nice chat when I'm online :)
 
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CP is a money saver and the items can be upgraded too. im guessing that you started off in sandy so i say yes. save those points to save your money.
 
Xerius said:
why is it people still look down on drg.
i for one thing our 2hr rocks... yet people think its still "lacking"...

compare this:

1. Partial 400-500 HP Heal
2. Refreshes 2 jumps that also go on to provide debuffs
3. sometimes get full 100 TP
4. Faster attack
5. Strength bonus

to

1. summons your pet.

im quite happy for one about this change and i think its easily one of the stronger ones now just because it enhances all aspects to give a boost for survival. True DRK's ult with other JAs rocks end game, but it really sucks before that. The highlight of the DRG two hour is that it increases ur chances of hitting the mob as well as making you hit harder and you know you'll actualy get healed regardless of if you hit the mob. So i really think its a moot point when someone points out our 2 hr as being a "shitty" side of DRG. compare other 2hrs and see what is better.
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Here you are preaching for people to stop generalizing about dragoons, yet you make a ignorant comment about another job. Nice going.
 
Well what I was comparing was DRKs ULT with Dragoon ult, perhaps you misread what i wrote.
What i was aiming to get across was that DRKs ult, is not as good, until late game when you combine it with other JAs such as Souleaster, Lastresort, Desperate Blows (which you dont get till 75). Bloodweapon itself has never stood out too much to me before that, and from my experience, usually doesnt really do much as the DRK's attack is slow without the "omg 2 minutes of glory haste build" and they usually whiff, not getting much hp back anyways. I was trying to strike a comparison between how with DRG, you know you'll actualy get healed regardless of if you hit the mob or not whereas DRK its chance-based.

I assume you thought I was on the other hand saying that DRKs JAs suck until late game? I wasnt.
 
I think the point is really, you can't say drks suck in comparison to drg. I know that you're a little on the mid levels but really the drks you must have seen must have been pretty shitty if they have constant whiff fests.

You usually put the blame on the person not the job, there are a lot of melee rdms but does rdm the job get the shit for it? No, the person does.

That's why you saying Drk is "chance-based" and your "experience" is invalid, you still have yet to meet people good at the drk job.
 
Saying DRK ult isnt as strong as it is late game =/= DRK Job sucks
moreover assuming average DRK weapon delay is quite high its around 3-4 hits you'll get in over the 30 second life of the spell. This is assuming of course pre-late game haste builds.

I did not say DRG is better than DRK either, all I said was that our ult provides dmg, a definite boost to HP and a definite heal, some benefits of accuracy, TP and haste.

I was only drawing a comparison that people saying DRG ult sucks isnt right to say making the connection between a guaranteed heal vs a possible heal. Perhaps me saying DRK ult "really sucks" was an overstatement, but i dont think it truly shines until late game.


PS: Drk's bloodweapon heal is chance, it depends on if you hit the mob, and since acc is never 100%, that means there is a probability factor and that means "chance".
 
Xerius said:
PS: Drk's bloodweapon heal is chance, it depends on if you hit the mob, and since acc is never 100%, that means there is a probability factor and that means "chance".
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I'll take some screenshots of Blood Weapon + Souleater healing me during Dynamis today, and we'll analyze the "chance" factor of Blood Weapon.
 
Tristam Green said:
I'll take some screenshots of Blood Weapon + Souleater healing me during Dynamis today, and we'll analyze the "chance" factor of Blood Weapon.
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/sigh the whole point of my main post that drew attention was to say that pre-endgame DRG 2hr seems to stand out just because you get a set amount of HP healed, whereas pre-endgame DRK's 2hr is not as reliable. PRE ENDGAME. I know DRK 2hr owns endgame and can heal massive amounts of HP but I think u missed my main point.
 
Xerius said:
Saying DRK ult isnt as strong as it is late game =/= DRK Job sucks
moreover assuming average DRK weapon delay is quite high its around 3-4 hits you'll get in over the 30 second life of the spell. This is assuming of course pre-late game haste builds.

I did not say DRG is better than DRK either, all I said was that our ult provides dmg, a definite boost to HP and a definite heal, some benefits of accuracy, TP and haste.

I was only drawing a comparison that people saying DRG ult sucks isnt right to say making the connection between a guaranteed heal vs a possible heal. Perhaps me saying DRK ult "really sucks" was an overstatement, but i dont think it truly shines until late game.


PS: Drk's bloodweapon heal is chance, it depends on if you hit the mob, and since acc is never 100%, that means there is a probability factor and that means "chance".
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1. High delay does not mean neccesarily a sucky job at lower levels, your job, sam,war,etc. still get invites.

2. Absorb spells and a lack of haste is what drk has in all categories; we're talking about just 2hr then? Okay, usually people don't consider 2hr as the *most utility* of a job, it's the 2hr that makes the other parts of the job shine more (usually unless you're lucked out like blue mage...)

3. You were right to defend the job, but using another job and not giving the credit of their other abilities is asinine. Kinda like the-"I outparsed the drg but his pet doesn't count?"-statement Once again a dark knight can be useful to a party in many ways: limited debuffs, absorb spells, stun, etc. which starts at the mid to late 30s. If they cannot use those abilities in ways beneficial to the party or are geared incorrectly then it's a fault of the player.

4. Yes the healing abilities, when drg/mage is "guarranteed" if you are alive and your pet is after jumping to shed hate and no job's acc is 100% so yes Drk can miss during Blood Weapon, they have other "guarranteed" heals as well(speaking in the same sense as drg/mage) such as aspir(if applicable to allow more drains), and the spell drain I and drain II. Then at higher levels dread spikes. Here you're talking about solo play, but you also don't go into the exp party part of it, which is a part of the job's utility as well.
 
How much damage a job does has from what I've seen while leveling is based more on their ability to play the job properly and wear decent gear than anything else. get a decent weapon, get a sniper/woodsman ring or two, and get whatever body peice is good for the job. Everything else that can boost your DD has an extremely cheap alternative to the "best" peice or is cheap to begin with nowadays so getting that stuff shouldn't be any trouble to you. From what I've been parsing while leveling this makes a difference in damage output by 50~100%.
Don't ever look for a party exclusively while inside a city if you can help it. you need to be outside and killing stuff/questing or farming. Start saving up your gil soon since there will be certain "must have" peices of gear and it's alot easier to afford them if you started saving for them at lv 20 so that you can buy them at lv 40 or 60 than it is to be 1 lv away and then realize you forgot to farm for it.
 
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K. Ishitar said:
dont want to quote the whole thing
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1. High delay does not mean neccesarily a sucky job at lower levels, your job, sam,war,etc. still get invites.

Never said high delay means a job sucks. I never said the job sucks, I'm beyond the 2004 mentality of DRG vs DRK. I'm merely saying DRK's 2hr is not at its best potential before late game due to the high delay of weapons and the lack of haste equipment usually available. in case its not clear " =/= " means "does not equal"

2. Absorb spells and a lack of haste is what drk has in all categories; we're talking about just 2hr then? Okay, usually people don't consider 2hr as the *most utility* of a job, it's the 2hr that makes the other parts of the job shine more (usually unless you're lucked out like blue mage...)

i was never talking about party utility of the job. if you look back i even mentioned how DRK is good because of the debuffs and absorb spells they have. "
DRKs are very good, especially with Absorb-TP, which helps make up for DRKs lower accuracy. Stun and various absorb spells add a lot of utility to the job as well. The job really begins to shine when you obtain your 4-hit weaponskill Guillotine. (i could be wrong though)."


When did i ever talk about utility and DRG having more utility compared to DRKs in parties? I dont get where you're getting all this from to be honest. I wasnt talking about solo play or party play all i wanted to talk about was how DRG 2hr heals you regardless of hits or misses i never even mentioned DRG/Mage healing so I dont know why you bring this up either. I'm talking about blood weapon's heal and spirit surge's heal nothing more nothing less. Drain I and Drain II are not part of DRK's 2hr. Why do you keep insisting I'm talking about the two job's overall.

EDIT: I realize I said "ult" a few times instead of "2hr" perhaps that was the confusion, if so my apologies. Too used to other games where its called an ultimate move haha. Perhaps you thought ult = utility?
 
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Again with the supposed whiff-fest, did I step into a portal to 2004? Let me lay this out so you can understand it. Using either of a Dark Knight's 2 best weapons, he/she will have either an A or A+ skill. So unless every other job has access to a double-secret skill cap and has A++ skill with their weapons, a DRK will have the EXACT SAME ACCURACY as any other job using a weapon with the same skill level, barring accuracy from Dex, gear, food, abilities, and traits.

And if I really wanted to be a dick (and I do) I would point out that while DRG gets its ACC traits, DRK has more Dex than DRG does, can eat the same food, has 2 abilities that can raise accuracy (Souleater & Diabolic Eye) to DRG's 1 (which is tied to a 2-hour timer), and do I really need to go into gear selection. *cough, no hauby, cough* [size=-3]That's right, I went there.[/size]



Disclaimer: Please note that I hold DRG in the highest respect, and this should not be taken as an attack on the job itself, just at certain mis-informed members.
 
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You talk about the job's overall utility but you don't include the party part, that's what I mentioned for you.

You shift back and forth between implied solo utility(using the 2hr I'me assuming?) and then the 2hr utility itself, I mentioned drg/mage healing because you were getting the 400-500 hp from somewhere, which leaves only the time you absorb the wyvren during the 2hr. That's only one heal.

I included drain I and drain II because they can be used (esp drain II) to keep up survivability facing a mob. Soul eater, last resort,etc. are not part of the drk 2hr but they were mentioned anyways. Leaving out of course dread spikes since that's higher levels and causes no hp to be gained or lost from hits.

Jumps are not directly part of the drg 2hr but they are enhanced by it and used as well.
 
K. Ishitar said:
You talk about the job's overall utility but you don't include the party part, that's what I mentioned for you.

You shift back and forth between implied solo utility(using the 2hr I'me assuming?) and then the 2hr utility itself, I mentioned drg/mage healing because you were getting the 400-500 hp from somewhere, which leaves only the time you absorb the wyvren during the 2hr. That's only one heal.

I included drain I and drain II because they can be used (esp drain II) to keep up survivability facing a mob. Soul eater, last resort,etc. are not part of the drk 2hr but they were mentioned anyways. Leaving out of course dread spikes since that's higher levels and causes no hp to be gained or lost from hits.

Jumps are not directly part of the drg 2hr but they are enhanced by it and used as well.
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the original post that drew attention was actually talking about DRG 2hr specifically. I wasnt even comparing DRG and DRK, i was simply comparing the benefits of a static heal vs a variable heal.

ahhh i see why now. I actually wasnt talking about a 400-500 hp heal from DRG/Mage. Spirit Surge actually provides heal equal to the wyvern's HP which I've gathered to be around that (very very rounded figure) as well as +15% HP to ur max hp. And yes we are only talking about 2hrs, whether used in a party or solo, which is somewhat irrelevant since I'm simply comparing the 2hr abilities.

I mentioned DRK JAs just to comment that I know Bloodweapon is extremely powerful late game when combined with DRJ JAs, but that before that its not nearly as good. Thats all.

Overall all i meant to say was how DRG 2hr provides a whole assortment of buffs and the added bonus of a set heal. I didnt expect comparing it to DRK to draw so much hate, when all i wanted to compare was the difference in healing methods (static vs variable).
 
Well while everyone banters on about endgame and such, how are you liking it so far? Any questions about anything, I've got a lvl 49 DRG so I suppose I know a little about DRG. Need any help /tell Dancingweapon :P
 
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