ProTip: /nin sucks for most jobs

[Caerloc]

Uzor's parses showed that almost all of his DMG comes from his SPELLS. /war does nothing for his SPELLS. /NIN gives him defense since hes dishing out so much dmg so he doesnt have to worry about pulling hate, what is hard about this?

How does nin help him do more dmg? He doesnt have to worry about pulling hate like he would with /war. He can do his thing the entire fight instead of holding back. Same reason mnk's sub nin.

And unlike mnks, at least /nin does infact increase his attack speed, thus increasing his melee dmg a little higher.

Like i said before, saying you need /nin for survivability is one thing. Saying it lets you do more melee dmg then /war is another. I dont believe 15% delay cut gives more melee dmg then double attack and berserk, not to forget Attack Bonus I.

 

[Ugotjacked]

The new dynamis zones area a small percentage of total dynamsi completed. Rappa this post fails because infact ninja is good for 90% of things compared to most other sub jobs and infact subbing ninja will end up for the better of the party. And that in case is why people sub ninja. you cannot dismiss this fact.

15% delay reduction off two sowrds with say 240 delay each is a 72 delay reduction. that turns swords into dagger speed. Berserk and dual wield are arguably close in DoT increase. and it also adds one more hit to multiphit WS for dual wield. Add in +5% which cuts off a total of 96 delay suppa and your total dmg will prolly be higher on VT's because of dualwield. Always situational but defentally both are equally useful but one comes with a backup of shadows.

 

[Angeloxi]

And unlike mnks, at least /nin does infact increase his attack speed, thus increasing his melee dmg a little higher.

Hmmm...how about sub Kraken Club, eh ? main...Titan's Cudgel i guess, my point being I tink MNK/NIN great without H2H stereotype + black belt = woohoo MNK/NIN ftw...then again those KC hits give the mob so much TP

 

[meeze]

Actually, depending on sub weapon (Mkris, Kraken) THF/NIN is quite good at giving the mob TP and gaining TP as well. Or maybe we go with THF Knife because all we care about is THII+ for crystals or something and we want...what? Garuda's Dagger for AGI+3 Att+7 zomg. Then again THF/NIN to 75...what is your evasion skill if you didn't spend hours steal+hide EM+ gold beastcoin yags or gobs? hmmm...btw, THF/DRK is real nice since souleater stacks with DE...or whatever, but we choose THF/NIN because we are too lazy to level shielding also I guess.

My LV 56 THF has better gear than your 70+ THF, so I would leave this thread alone, read it and learn.

To the topic. I wanted to sub war on THF, and at 33 or 34 I tried it, and it sucked ass. The DMG wasn't as impressive as I would have liked it to be, and I felt like a tard with on little dagger.

Fast forward to my first PT after I got Triple Attack, holy shit was I a beast. I felt like I had a fucking kraken sometimes, the TP gain was ridiculous, Triple and Double attack are the shit, the damage felt a whole lot better and the evasion skill ups from having a retarded first voke were great.

I didn't try 50-54 so I'm not sure about just DA, but 55+ is WAR all the way. I also noticed there are no more SCs in this game, I've rarely had Distorion partners, I think all the tp burning at 75 has burned a whole through everyones brain.

 

[alanon]

Like said before, saying you need /nin for survivability is one thing. Saying it lets you do more melee dmg then /war is another. I dont believe 15% delay cut gives more melee dmg then double attack and berserk, not to forget Attack Bonus I.

GIVE IT UP!!

I flat out said to forget about dual-wield, it's survivability is why /nin is better, and you hated that! But now you use it as your own.....

 

[Eulore]

15% delay reduction off two sowrds with say 240 delay each is a 72 delay reduction. that turns swords into dagger speed. Berserk and dual wield are arguably close in DoT increase. and it also adds one more hit to multiphit WS for dual wield.

You're forgetting about double attack also, if berserk and dual wield are close in DoT increase, double attack is going to make /war dot > /nin dot.

Edit: Why's everyone talking about kclub and mkris? They suck. They do shitty dmg and spam the mob with TP. Who cares if you get 100% quicker, you're killing whoever's tanking and doing crap DoT. The only multi hit weapons that are good for EXP are Soboro thingy and ridill.

 

[Caerloc]

GIVE IT UP!!

I flat out said to forget about dual-wield, it's survivability is why /nin is better, and you hated that! But now you use it as your own.....

Scroll back.
Rappa didnt buy it. Im not Rappa.

 

[Ugotjacked]

So I didnt say /war couldnt outdamage it in alot of situations. But both ways I do a fuckload of dmg and can always pull hate one way I can jsut keep on dealing damage while I ahve hate which puts me at overall higher damage because I didnt die or i didnt have to turn away from the mob.


you guys ned to take economics there is a term that is often used called " Opportunity cost" The reason /nin can do more dmg is as soon as I pull hate I dont have to worry about it I can still do dmg and just wait until someone else WS and I dont suck up MP therefore causing more rest time and slower exp. /ninja increases total times to deal dmg but decreases total dmg per hit. Weigh it out how you want but /nin will come out on top in most situations. /war can do more dmg on most melee jobs yes but on blu Im pretty sure Uzor has it right. He can still spam spells with /nin while when your /war your getting owned and you have to stop casting or turn away giving up your chance to do dmg.

Eulore: Mkris is actually really sick at 50-68 screw DA from /war ill just get 6 hits in a row and get 28 TP in one round. on things like colibris and crabs if you ahve problems with those tanking then your a bad tank anyways. And its not shit DoT its normally above hornet needle if it 2 hits which is its average proc rate.

 

[Angeloxi]

My LV 56 THF has better gear than your 70+ THF, so I would leave this thread alone, read it and learn.

To the topic. I wanted to sub war on THF, and at 33 or 34 I tried it, and it sucked ass. The DMG wasn't as impressive as I would have liked it to be, and I felt like a tard with on little dagger.

Fast forward to my first PT after I got Triple Attack, holy shit was I a beast. I felt like I had a fucking kraken sometimes, the TP gain was ridiculous, Triple and Double attack are the shit, the damage felt a whole lot better and the evasion skill ups from having a retarded first voke were great.

I didn't try 50-54 so I'm not sure about just DA, but 55+ is WAR all the way. I also noticed there are no more SCs in this game, I've rarely had Distorion partners, I think all the tp burning at 75 has burned a whole through everyones brain.

but my capped eva is higher, you cant hit me besides your gear is average compared to leet THF gear (dragon equip v. i tink i caught you in gemini sub zomg)

Ya, THF/WAR 30s and 40s = wtf, i should have THF/RNG so i can actually do somethin. Also, i got kicked being THF/WAR 40-42ish since my job wasn't useful anyway.

fast forward to Triple Attack, wtf was I thinkin? THF/WAR lfp, {Party} {Do you need it?} {sub} {Ninja} {please} so...{wtf} <job> {i keepin /WAR} {No thanks.}

Ya, not many SC 70+ because zomg imps ! eek i the WAR/NIN dunt want to mistral axe > sharky because he forgot what his job offers. let not forget how THF/NIN = as leet for merit PTs as BLM PLD DRG DRK SAM COR BLU BST or whatever lets all go to WAR/NIN or MNK/WARorNIN + blackbelt for meriting !

 

[Angeloxi]

Edit: Why's everyone talking about kclub and mkris? They suck. They do shitty dmg and spam the mob with TP. Who cares if you get 100% quicker, you're killing whoever's tanking and doing crap DoT. The only multi hit weapons that are good for EXP are Soboro thingy and ridill.

because they make /NIN so much better, lets all spam the mob with TP and let the mob pwn the tank so when the mob turns to the Mkris/KC user, we can survive ! and yes i'm bored enough to make up BS

 

[Angeloxi]

you guys ned to take economics there is a term that is often used called " Opportunity cost" The reason /nin can do more dmg is as soon as I pull hate I dont have to worry about it I can still do dmg and just wait until someone else WS and I dont suck up MP therefore causing more rest time and slower exp. /ninja increases total times to deal dmg but decreases total dmg per hit. Weigh it out how you want but /nin will come out on top in most situations. /war can do more dmg on most melee jobs yes but on blu Im pretty sure Uzor has it right. He can still spam spells with /nin while when your /war your getting owned and you have to stop casting or turn away giving up your chance to do dmg.

but but ! we all too poor to afford nin tools ; ; it total lost spending gil to kill mob faster it seems, what kinda DD74+/NIN37 spams elemental Ni's?

 

[lionsheart]

Is Angeloxi a new account of Blazn?

 

[Khali]

hmm... /nin, /rng, and even /whm are all viable subjobs for Corsair.

/NIN vs /RNG
==========
/nin
For one.. i'm not gonna wait to use sharpshot just to pull off a slugshot... Barrage is nice.. but to get the most out of that.. you still have to use sharpshot. Beater's armor is nice but /nin saves you a slot when you dual wield Trailer's Kukri... and if you wanna get a Phantom Fleuret you can equip as sub/main weapon. If Corsair had an A in marksmanship (which they don't) i'd go /rng more. But to get my money's worth from my bullets, i'd rather load up a bit on racc just to be safe is all. The way i play /nin i'm always moving around (except when fighting imps). I keep a 4 roll rotation throughout the party and i love to melee... Corsair does have decent dagger skill so dual wielding won't hurt ya. I use suppanomimi and a drone earring on my cor.. and if you want that 1 agi.. get a genin earring.. since AGI does have a factor on slugshot ^^ As A corsair i hate pulling because it can mess up your 4 roll rotation. If anyone has played corsair with 4 roll rotation.. you know exactly what i mean.

/rng
I'd say at early lvls this is the best choice for Corsair. With sharpshot and Melee Accuracy bonuses. At low lvls your roll rotation probably won't be more than 3 because you don't get refresh roll (evoker's) til 40. Barrage is nice to have and like rappa said beater's earrings and gun belt at their corresponding levels. Nothing wrong with Cor/Rng. I just don't like waiting for Sharpshot recast time for me to pull out the big moves is all. I think cor/rng is for ppl who make their own bullets or have lots of money to spend on ammo. You'd be surprised how fast you can go thru a stack of bullets with your 500~ delay gun =P


Cor/Whm
=======
If you get a lotta MP armor Cor/whm can be an excellent back up tank and buffer. the Quick Draw Ability makes a lil imore sense in this setup because you're only providing support with it and buffing and healing and not worrying too much about dmg. I use this for Caedarva Mire parties. Only prob is... Blue Cotehardie is the only good MP giving body piece that cor can use and that's at lvl 69. Cor doesn't get a lotta true MP armor (not incluiding rings, earrings, hairpins, etc).


Overall.. for any job that chooses to go /nin.. there's nothing wrong with it. They choose to lvl nin to 37 (which was a pain for me) to keep it an ungimped sub and get utsu ichi and ni and etc which takes time and money. As long as their subjob isn't super gimp.. and it's a viable subjob I could care less. As long as they're doing their part in the party. Subjobs choice could also depend on how good your tank is. Have a drk go /war and use berserk, warcry, etc... and if tank can't hold hate... What then? Whm gotta cure and cure and cure and take hate... causes more chaos and all for what... the drk wanted to sub /war. Monk decides to go /war and becomes a DD machine and no one can pull hate off him... Death... /war has double attack and berserk and warcry. Berserk you'll be waiting 3 minutes to recast... warcry you'll be waiting 4 and a half minutes to recast. Lovely abilities... just that some ppl would rather have dual wielding and blink ability. If attacking fast enough with a haste build and spamming weaponskills may deal more dmg than waiting for berserk and warcry for /war, then why not go /nin?

sorry.. may have talked too much.. and i'm not reading the other 5 or so pages.. so just listing all my thoughts now. If i have repeated something that has already been said.. /bow i'm sorry. ^^;

 

[meeze]

but my capped eva is higher, you cant hit me besides your gear is average compared to leet THF gear (dragon equip v. i tink i caught you in gemini sub zomg)

Ya, THF/WAR 30s and 40s = wtf, i should have THF/RNG so i can actually do somethin. Also, i got kicked being THF/WAR 40-42ish since my job wasn't useful anyway.

fast forward to Triple Attack, wtf was I thinkin? THF/WAR lfp, {Party} {Do you need it?} {sub} {Ninja} {please} so...{wtf} <job> {i keepin /WAR} {No thanks.}

Ya, not many SC 70+ because zomg imps ! eek i the WAR/NIN dunt want to mistral axe > sharky because he forgot what his job offers. let not forget how THF/NIN = as leet for merit PTs as BLM PLD DRG DRK SAM COR BLU BST or whatever lets all go to WAR/NIN or MNK/WARorNIN + blackbelt for meriting !

I had a Bravo's sub, but ditched it cause I don't have shikaree harness or speed belt to compliment it and went with republican subligar for TP, and noct+1 for ws.

No one has asked me what sub I use, I have the ones available to me in my sig, and when I get invited I show up /war since no one has specified yet.

As far as the leet gear you talk about, it isn't that leet, drg harness isn't that hard to obtain anymore, it's what 3-4m? I'm 56 and am pretty pimped, I'm missin m.kris, CoP body and speed belt, and PCC/PCA to be all the way pimped. But as far as gimps like you go, I'm god with a dagger/shield.

 

[meeze]

Is Angeloxi a new account of Blazn?

No, he's a gimped out THF, rocking LV 14 rings at 70+...maybe he's a new account of Peregrine.

 

[Zethren]

BRD/NIN. This is probably the most selfish sub, mainly used in cannons and completely unnecessary. Assuming that your melee voke incoming mobs after you sleep them (yes, I know that's asking a lot but pt with competant people please), you shouldn't be getting hit much anyway. If you're subbing /WHM, you get Stoneskin and Blink, which should get you to camp just fine. Better yet if you're /RDM you get Phalanx too, and not to mention the Fast Cast benefit you get on all of your songs. Also from either sub you can cure yourself so you don't have to waste mage mp everytime your shadows go down. You get it now?

I want to add that /NIN sub for Bard is very very useful for Pulling in U. Range. You have a bard. When you get a chance try pulling with /whm or /rdm. There is no way to outrun the demons, unless you want to sleep them and run to camp. That could work in non canon Pts. But for Canons /nin is the way to go in U range. Just about everwhere else Yes I agree /WHM and /RDM are better.

 

[alanon]

Scroll back.
Rappa didnt buy it. Im not Rappa.

This IS you in responce to my line of thinking on survivability = more damage.

The ones where he failed to realize how Dualwield works or the one where he failed to show a parse comparing BLU/NIN to BLU/WAR?

 

[Skaw]

BST/NIN without Juggernaut to offhand, using it for double Rune Axing, or comboing Woodville's/Maneater/Leopard.. I just don't understand at all. No offensive abilities/traits = use WAR.

 

[Caerloc]

This IS you in responce to my line of thinking on survivability = more damage.

No, that was my response to your question about if i read his posts concerning how /nin did more overall dmg then /war. Namely this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rappa
Where is the "does more overall damage than /war" part coming from?


Have you not been reading Uzor's posts?

Survivability wasnt even mentioned here.

 

[Kyr]

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