ProTip: /nin sucks for most jobs

Just to throw out there, you mentioned non-canon parties, but you never specified lower level parties in your OP(in fact your examples were all of endgame activities where it would be acceptable and therefore implied high level parties), where the mobs may actually con IT to the melees and where /NIN doesn't give Ni.
 
Firestreak said:
So then 4 melees, a brd and a healer is a cannon party but at the same time is a non cannon party?
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Forgot to mention tank, sue me. :/ This is reaching the arguing for the sake of aruging point when you're discussing semantics, so I don't see a point in carrying this on any further. So unless you have anything constructive to add, thanks for the input Firestreak.
 
Rappa said:
Forgot to mention tank, sue me. :/ This is reaching the arguing for the sake of aruging point when you're discussing semantics, so I don't see a point in carrying this on any further. So unless you have anything constructive to add, thanks for the input Firestreak.
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Fine, I'll just tell you what I'm thinking then - just going to guess your answers from here on out.

Firestreak: Two DDs, a Ninja, a BRD and a WHM, is that a cannon party?

Rappa: Are the DDs subbing Nin?

Firestreak: No.

Rappa: Then no.

Firestreak: Ok then, they are subbing Nin.

Rappa: Then it's a cannon party!

Firestreak: So by subbing nin, you become a cannon party? Then by saying anything that's a cannon party is alright to sub nin, isn't your logic faulty?



>>>

I think the real point here, is that if you're fighting IT mobs, you will probably be better off with /WAR because you're far less likely to pull hate and less likely to kill the mob so quickly your shadows won't go down before the fight is over.

Saying "Cannon party" is misleading. I've been in parties with meles as a BLM at 75, we chained quickly. It wasn't a "cannon party." We were killing T-VTs, they die quickly! The melees were better off subbing Nin.
 
Sorry was at work couldn't respond to these until now.

Willian said:
Your 15% haste gives you 2x as much TP as a 10% double attack? This isn't last year, the TP floor is gone, so off-handing a fast dagger doesn't do anything other than gimp DoT, so... Where's the other 95% coming from? O_o
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Umm... What? where do you get that stat from + I think your math's wrong not gonna check it though. 90% of all statistics are made up on the spot. :)
I can guarentee I can do 2 ws's in the time a /war thf can do 1. Then again I have merc kris 18% haste fully merited dagger 8/8, tripple attack 5/5 + other merits that don't pertain to tp gain.

Rappa said:
Is this a serious post or a joke? I honestly can't tell. "Thf's arn't out there to get good damage for every hit." THEN WHAT THE FUCK AM I INVITING YOU FOR?!
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Your inviting a THF to pull, WS and TA the NIN. 1 or all of those reasons. thf/war sucks period please end the discusion there.
 
Blancho said:
Your inviting a THF to pull, WS and TA the NIN. 1 or all of those reasons. thf/war sucks period please end the discusion there.
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Could invite a SAM, DRK, or BLU to do all of that, except they'd also help out on damage since you're saying a thf can't do that.
 
Firestreak said:
I think the real point here, is that if you're fighting IT mobs, you will probably be better off with /WAR because you're far less likely to pull hate and less likely to kill the mob so quickly your shadows won't go down before the fight is over.
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Yes, the OP was specifically addressing a typical VT-IT xp pt. I'm sorry I didn't clarify this well enough, but I thought I implied it and I don't want to edit the OP since it's the flameboard and really shouldn't be editing anything.
 
Blancho said:
Sorry was at work couldn't respond to these until now.



Umm... What? where do you get that stat from + I think your math's wrong not gonna check it though. 90% of all statistics are made up on the spot. :)
I can guarentee I can do 2 ws's in the time a /war thf can do 1. Then again I have merc kris 18% haste fully merited dagger 8/8, tripple attack 5/5 + other merits that don't pertain to tp gain.



Your inviting a THF to pull, WS and TA the NIN. 1 or all of those reasons. thf/war sucks period please end the discusion there.
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There is so much wrong with this.
 
Bajaratt said:
Could invite a SAM, DRK, or BLU to do all of that, except they'd also help out on damage since you're saying a thf can't do that.
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IDK on BLU so I'm going to exclude BLU but for DRK and SAM. Duh and they always will be better. However DRK is better /war so hopefully you'd have a THF to TA the NIN because DRK get's so much hate. But for SAM, ya but SAM can't pull in some area's thf's can like the birds in Valley of Sorrows. But for most of the time DUH YA THATS WHY YOU INVITE THEM INSTEAD OF A THF. They do more damage period end of discussion. THF is usually a pt filler no one else is on so lets get a thf or were pulling in this area so we need a thf.
 
And by the way, since asked, I can make 8k an hour personally soloing pudding.(It varies, that's high end). If there were enough puddings that 6 of me could party together and not disturb each other then that's 17k/hour, which is just 6 of us soloing in a shared exp setup. Forget dropping 1 of us for a BRD, the advantages of combined attacks, the advantages of endless chaining, ext. Of course that's in an imaginary camp where there are as many puddings for me as there are puks for you.
 
Mattaru said:
There is so much wrong with this.
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LOL so if there is so much wrong with it how come your not pointing any of the wrong points out? Smart one. :D
 
Blancho said:
LOL so if there is so much wrong with it how come your not pointing any of the wrong points out? Smart one. :D
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Because you are a dumbass.
 
Blancho said:
IDK on BLU so I'm going to exclude BLU but for DRK and SAM. Duh and they always will be better. However DRK is better /war so hopefully you'd have a THF to TA the NIN because DRK get's so much hate. But for SAM, ya but SAM can't pull in some area's thf's can like the birds in Valley of Sorrows. But for most of the time DUH YA THATS WHY YOU INVITE THEM INSTEAD OF A THF. They do more damage period end of discussion. THF is usually a pt filler no one else is on so lets get a thf or were pulling in this area so we need a thf.
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So, at one camp, thf would be useful for pulling, although other jobs can do the same thing but better. You're not making a case for people to invite thf's at all anymore.
 
Firestreak said:
He just said that he thought they were a filler job for exp purposes.
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He also thinks that a multi-hit weapon is automatically good when THF got a dagger upgrade significantly boosting the ability of a THF to put up DoT numbers as well as WS spike dmg.
 
Blancho said:
LOL so if there is so much wrong with it how come your not pointing any of the wrong points out? Smart one. :D
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All of your supposed benefits that would put you ahead of a thf/war could be obtained by the thf/war; it's all gear/merits. With dual wield, you get less TP per hit, even though you hit 15% faster. With double attack, you get full tp per hit, while hitting 10% more. It's been determined a long time ago, that both jobs gained TP at relatively the same rate, maybe /nin gained 110% TP when the war gained 100%, but that's an irrelevent difference. That was determined before the TP floor was removed, however, so now /nin isn't nearly as good for TP gain as it once was.

Thf/nin might gain tp slightly faster than a thf/war, I doubt it but I'm not sure since I don't have thf leveled; but it won't be twice as fast like you're claiming, and the /war will still outdamage you since they have berserk, warcry and attack bonus.
 
Mattaru said:
He also thinks that a multi-hit weapon is automatically good when THF got a dagger upgrade significantly boosting the ability of a THF to put up DoT numbers as well as WS spike dmg.
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I'm not in the mood to argue what's going to outparse one so not getting involved in all that, but I read a pretty clear chain of communication.

Him: Thfs aren't good DDs. Thf's are for *specific purposes*

Baja: Then why would someone invite THF?

Him: They're a filler job.

then later

Baja: You aren't making a good case for THFs to be invited.

He's not trying to make a case to invite THFs. I'm not saying the things he's saying are right, but at least pay attention to what he's saying when you're refuting it.
 
Missed the sentence about thf being a filler job surrounded by all the idiocy, sorry.
 
Bajaratt said:
Missed the sentence about thf being a filler job surrounded by all the idiocy, sorry.
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I think it was a tarp.
 
I don't know about now, but til that dagger update they pretty much were just a filler job. I haven't actually partied with one since then but I imagine that was a pretty noticable difference.
 
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