QCDN's future without a Flameboard

I need the flameboard, it's where i bitch and complain about my rl life >.> don't take it away ; ;
 
Let me try and sort some things out.
Removing the FB isn't a new idea, it has been brought up in the past over and over, and I personally was always there to tell people that the FB is here to stay and if they don't like it then they have the option to not read it.

This is true, however, it also hinges on the assumption that any and all flames are conducted on the FB. Clearly this is not the case.

I believe that compared to other boards QCDN has always been run with a low amount of overall moderation. I did consider this as a good thing, as there were no powermonger mods or admins around.

My opinion on the FB has since changed. I could go on and on as to how and why, but I don't believe those are important. The fact remains that I believe that people ought to treat each other decently, even if they have disagreements, and that the only way disagreements can be worked out among reasonable people is if there is a genuine interest in actually resolving the problem rather than to just add fuel to the fire.

The Flameboard, as is, does not foster such an environment. Furthermore the overall negativity displayed in most every FB thread once it passes the first page is essentially drowning any reasonable argument that has been or will be made.

It may seem as if the "news" that some players avoid QCDN has caused this thread, or the line of thought to remove the FB. This is not the case. I realize that there will always be players who will not like the service that is provided here. However, I have been thinking on what could be done about the what I would consider overall not all that friendly attitude that many display toward each other.

Removing the FB would be the first step, stricter moderation of existing forums to keep posts/threads with the established rules would be another step, permanently banning users who after a warning are unable to adjust their behavior to keep within the rules would be yet another step.

I am not out to get people, I am out to improve QCDN and make it a place where people come to share information, plan and achieve common goals, make profit (yeah, profit doesn't mean to screw people over, profit means win-win situation), while interacting in a climate of mutual respect.

I have said it elsewhere recently, respect is not earned in this case, it is given based on the common ground we have as FFXI players. Then, once people screw up, they lose that respect, and will have to work hard to regain it.

For far too long the attitude around here was that one doesn't treat another well unless a certain number of conditions were met (level, gear, friends, LS membership, whatever). This is simply no longer acceptable to me, and the upcoming changes will reflect that.

This is not a "running away" from the dark side of FFXI. There will still be venues to discuss stolen accounts, trade scammers, etc, but the Free-For-All the current FB provides will not be part of that.
 
:nyam:
Sculli said:
<-- Read the above post for the quote. -->

I am intrigued and ready to help ^-^
 
Arctyrael said:
Nah, this is tame.

>> Peregrine.
If you seem to have a problem with the flames following you, maybe that should indicate that the problem is not the boards.
No, it happens to everyone. Most just let it slide. There are about 20 posters who frequent qcdn who take it upon themselves to ignore administration and do whatever they please anywhere they wish. They just do it STRONGLY to me because I let it be known that the nitpicking and subtle flaming and all the bs they do to get jabs in where they don't belong reflects on their own pettiness and worthlessness to this forum.
 
Sculli said:
For far too long the attitude around here was that one doesn't treat another well unless a certain number of conditions were met (level, gear, friends, LS membership, whatever). This is simply no longer acceptable to me, and the upcoming changes will reflect that.

This is not a "running away" from the dark side of FFXI.

This seems like an entirely different venture than what you've brought up thus far. A statement like this gets my unequivocal support because it takes game elitists down hard, but I don't know if you really want to make a claim like that on a board like this, where endgame achievers tend to concentrate, and they tend to always think otherwise.

Again, my scorpion harness...how many comments? 150? Tackling QCDN's image of cutthroat cheap rivaly and contentless spammers is one thing. You'll never take the elitism out of it though where judging by in-game status is the norm. Status is not going to be looked down on so easily. It's the only thing a LOT of members have going for them.
 
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Sculli said:
Let me try and sort some things out.
Removing the FB isn't a new idea, it has been brought up in the past over and over, and I personally was always there to tell people that the FB is here to stay and if they don't like it then they have the option to not read it.

This is true, however, it also hinges on the assumption that any and all flames are conducted on the FB. Clearly this is not the case.

I believe that compared to other boards QCDN has always been run with a low amount of overall moderation. I did consider this as a good thing, as there were no powermonger mods or admins around.

My opinion on the FB has since changed. I could go on and on as to how and why, but I don't believe those are important. The fact remains that I believe that people ought to treat each other decently, even if they have disagreements, and that the only way disagreements can be worked out among reasonable people is if there is a genuine interest in actually resolving the problem rather than to just add fuel to the fire.

The Flameboard, as is, does not foster such an environment. Furthermore the overall negativity displayed in most every FB thread once it passes the first page is essentially drowning any reasonable argument that has been or will be made.

It may seem as if the "news" that some players avoid QCDN has caused this thread, or the line of thought to remove the FB. This is not the case. I realize that there will always be players who will not like the service that is provided here. However, I have been thinking on what could be done about the what I would consider overall not all that friendly attitude that many display toward each other.

Removing the FB would be the first step, stricter moderation of existing forums to keep posts/threads with the established rules would be another step, permanently banning users who after a warning are unable to adjust their behavior to keep within the rules would be yet another step.

I am not out to get people, I am out to improve QCDN and make it a place where people come to share information, plan and achieve common goals, make profit (yeah, profit doesn't mean to screw people over, profit means win-win situation), while interacting in a climate of mutual respect.

I have said it elsewhere recently, respect is not earned in this case, it is given based on the common ground we have as FFXI players. Then, once people screw up, they lose that respect, and will have to work hard to regain it.

For far too long the attitude around here was that one doesn't treat another well unless a certain number of conditions were met (level, gear, friends, LS membership, whatever). This is simply no longer acceptable to me, and the upcoming changes will reflect that.

This is not a "running away" from the dark side of FFXI. There will still be venues to discuss stolen accounts, trade scammers, etc, but the Free-For-All the current FB provides will not be part of that.

1 question... Can i get my money back then?
 
Removing flameboard has more advantages than disadvantages for sure.That can't be denied.And in some way it does halt the interaction and advancement of the NA side of players on quetzecoatl.
 
Darklion said:
1 question... Can i get my money back then?
I will be issuing refunds of subscriptions already purchased to those who feel that the new direction is not what they would like to support.

I have no idea how I am going to pay for it yet as the donated cash has been spent, but that's beside the point. For this one time, because significant changes will be made to QCDN, previously paid subscriptions will be refundable.

I need to point out that this will in no way set a precident to "omg you changed that policy, or you banned that guy, I want my cash back!". I feel it's the right thing to do to refund those who feel that they are not willig to contribute to where QCDN is headed.

Once the changes concerning the FB have been made, I will post an announcement about possible refunds. There will be a specific time period (like 4 weeks or so) during which the refund requests will have been made, and that's that.
 
Peregrine said:
You'll never take the elitism out of it though where judging by in-game status is the norm. Status is not going to be looked down on so easily. It's the only thing a LOT of members have going for them.
I am not out to remove status people achieve from in-game success.
However, that status will no longer be a free pass to treat others in a disrespectful manner. People worked hard on their ingame accomplishments, and they should be able to display them with pride, but that doesn't mean that being uber in-game will allow them to belittle other QDCN members here on the board.

Those who are truly interested in giving advice and helping someone else with game progression will never hang out their epeen saying "you have no idea wtf you are talking about asshole, get to 75 first, kill soandso, and then you may speak again, till then GTFO".

Sure noobs, or those who haven't been "there" yet, often do not know what works in end-game and what doesn't. End-game players have the opportunity to educate those who are up and coming about the end=game in a factual a non-confrontational matter. If one doesn't want to take the time to properly explain things, then one will just have to not post at all, because the only other choice is belittlement, which will not go over well.

Those who take the time to help others will always have higher status among the player base than those who do not, regardless of other circumstances.
 
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Westyle said:
I haven't made any friends dammit >:(

[Edit: Wes, for a while the pics were funny, then they were amusing for a while longer, then it got old, and now it's just plain annoying. -Sculli]
Does this mean no Fifty Hitler Posts? :'(
 
Sculli said:
I am not out to remove status people achieve from in-game success.
However, that status will no longer be a free pass to treat others in a disrespectful manner.
With all due respect as can be given here, keeping contentless posters deleted and stray flamers where they belong sounds like and honestly is a relatively simple task, and yet it is a task which is grossly failed on QCDN right now. If something so simple, chronic, predictable, and visible is never addressed, no one will believe that a statement like the quoted will ever yield any real results.

Basically this can't be enforced unless you have an utterly driven moderator in charge of hunting posts down. The changes you seem to advocate are changes that none of the mods seem to want responsibility for. When easier threats to enforce have fallen dead and limp, this one's not going to be the one to fly first. The mods say it's the player's jobs to report, the players don't report. Admin keeps threatening the no-content posters and the out-of-bounds-flamers, and that's all that happens. I could literally, not one hour after you ever make a comment about doing something about no-content spammers or people who flame outside the FB, find someone who just doensn't give a hedonistic rat's ass what you just said. And that has worked for years. I try my best to do what I'm told, but in the face of no one else bothering, I honestly get tired of playing with a net when no one else does.
 
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I think it's only fair to say that the current QCDN mods do a good job in the context of what they are asked to do. QCDN currently has 13 mods for 11 forums that have moderators assigned to them.

Given QCDN's long history of not having nazi mods and exercising leniency to the greatest possible extend, doing so is not a failure on their part, but is what the actual enforcement policy is currently like.

Again I can only link it to the real world. There is a speed limit, and pretty much everyone constantly violates it. Then there are traffic cops who are occasionally pull out an offender to show other traffic participants that there is some rudimentaty level of enforcement (or to fill the cities coffers).

Either way, currently it's simply not practical to enforce every rule 100% of the time. I do agree that in order to turn things around that will have to be changed.

I believe that between establishing a new set of rules, having a moderator turnover, strictly enforcing the new rules to show membership that those are indeed rules to be followed, things can be turned around.

Right now it's all just discussion in this thread, but action will follow. I don't want to just start changing things without to have a write-up of the new rules in such a way that they are short and easily understood, and while I am currently posting here, I am actually quite busy through Thursday, so depending on whether I find some time inbetween, nothing major will happen before Thursday night.
 
:elf: A flame is one thing a gun fight at the chocobo coral is anouther. When the repetiveness and the draging though the mud that when the flame come more of a witch hunt. There a big diffents between a respectable flame and a sladerious flame. Ever since there seem to be a decline in number of thread on the boards, It seem to be replace with repetive mug slinging. Even the one that started out pour where then teared apart by the aka "qcdn jackals" aka "fanboys" aka "vultures." It got to the point where flame had no meaning because you could not tell if they where legit or just a "looking for someone to belive he was right" guy. Lot of though ls flame should been handle ingame or in there respected sites. Im in for bringing back alittle bit of the pureity if it mean killing the flame board so be it. Though there will be flame on topics atleast they will be less propaganda and more discussion. On side note a more stricter flameboard would not be bad either flame but be respectiful. Plus no single person flaming ls flames. (though that follow under the respectful/honor code) Things sould always tryed to be resolved ingame. Also any you look at killiferit quez fourm. You want slandering there is no one there. The other server think that are server is dead. :spiteful:
 
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Just an idea.....

Might i suggest replacing the flameboard with "The debate board", A place that accepts....

-clashes upon dissagreement and point of view
-some aggression
-rejects foul play
-Exposure of what is right and wrong in situations (Question and say)
-A Place to bring negative situations to question (Maybe)

I don't care much for the flameboard in the sense of flaming someone. Personally i planed to never burn anyone there. I liked the flameboard because it kept the rest of the place clean.

Flameboard - Created by it's maker, giving the user the go ahead to file distressing messeges with rage.

Debate Board - Can be created the same, giving the user the go ahead to discuss distressful situations and occurances logically. This will most likely have users approach the board with what bothers them in a more elightened tone. It's not creating flocks, it's going up against them for debate and reflection. When i say reflection i mean when a majority of people dissagree with the threads creator, the creator recives a reality check, or vice versa.

Kinda like splicing these >> Off topic/Flameboard.
Much like the flameboard, but with rules regarding everyone keeps it clean, open hearted or not.
 
We call all that you mention... general discussion.
Remodeling the flameboard in any way will fail. Everyone will know that the new one is the flameboard V1.0001a. The lipservice to a new name would last, at best, a week before posters start to test the mods, and a month before mods get tired of trying to keep up with shoveling shitalaFlameboard. Then what do you have left? You have the same problem, but now everyone will have learned more than ever that admin and mods=nothing to concern yourself about whatsoever, and that they really only mean what they say until they get tired of enforcing what they say if they ever really enforced at all. Then it's business as usual.
 
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Removing the idea that a flameboard is a place one individual can attack another would go a long way. While wordplay won't help, the suggestion Anttaru followed up with would.

I'm kinda tired of seeing the personal attacks myself. Take it to PMs.
 
what i think is great about qcdn is that so many people are on it right now. When you need to organize something with lots of people all you have to do is ask event scheduling. If you need to ask people's opinion on some such job combo- its there.

What I'm saying is that there are always more people viewing the flameboard. If you take that away, do you think they will be viewing other forums or just none at all? Personally when i respond to the flameboard most of the time i browse the other forums while i wait for a reply or new thread w/e if im bored. I honestly don't think people would come to this site as often if it weren't for the flameboard.
 
But the people that come just for the flameboard -- that would quit if it were taken away -- are probably the people I would not have wanted in a group anyway. I'm not interested in trusting my character's life to someone who feeds off of aggression between other players.

That's just my personality. Your mileage may vary.
 
im not saying that people would leave qcdn completely... just not look at it as much since there isnt as much interesting shit.
 
The only reason I really like the flameboard is to know which players to watch out for. Those that scam others, make a party and the screw someone over in the party, etc. I've acquired some use outta the flameboard because it has mentioned people that scam and cheat and lie and screw other players over. That's why I'd argue the flameboard is a good thing. Now if you can have that in someway and remove the flameboard, than by all means, do so. I'd still enjoy QCDN to see what events are going on, information on things, planning for events and whatnot.
 
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