Quetzalcoatl, my 2 cents!

Firestreak said:
Not all NA or JP are one way or the other. One JP shell or NA shell being fair doesn't mean all and the same as reverse.

I'll just point out throwing all Homan right at the leader of a shell seems a bit wrong. So anyone saying all JPs are fair and righteous and we should learn to follow their example should be more specific as to which JP they talking about. (Not that most of the people actually distinguish.)
well if you going by point system lol the leader would have more points then the all or most of the other players so it not truely as unfair as you think. Though if they hording all the peices, lets say like they get all the peices before other member get some then that would be unfair.
 
hellstorm said:
well if you going by point system lol the leader would have more points then the all or most of the other players so it not truely as unfair as you think. Though if they hording all the peices, lets say like they get all the peices before other member get some then that would be unfair.

thats not necessarily true. but if a leader participates more, how is it not fair that they get more?

i wouldnt argue a leader getting the most gear if they have the most points, they put it in the time, they deserve the gear.
 
neophytal said:
thats not necessarily true. but if a leader participates more, how is it not fair that they get more?

i wouldnt argue a leader getting the most gear if they have the most points, they put it in the time, they deserve the gear.

maybe my wording alittle off, but ya that what i ment.
 
I'm not saying a leader can't get the first piece I'm just saying I find it odd they get the first 5 pieces. I'm talking about a group that went out doing multiple alliances simultanously to farm the crap out of Omega and then handed the first of each of the 5 pieces to one guy.

You can complain about a Dynamis LS that gives all the coins to the leader as well, but at least 1 makes a little sense and the other doesn't.

If you consider that it's the most efficient way to create a lvl 4 weapon, to push the shell to focus on one at a time that's a valid argument(I can counter that level 4 doesn't really benenit the shell as you only need level 3 to be good in Dynamis).

Homan on the other hand there is no clear advantage to throwing it all at one person. Homan works as individual pieces. So focus on one person only seems to be based on that person's greed not any sense of fairness OR efficiency.
 
Sculli said:

Being outside this game, and likely MMOs in general for the last 2+ years or so has really made you idealistic. Ideals are well and good, Sculli, but ideals say crime would stop if we just hugged each other instead of got angry.

The reality of the situation (and human nature in general) is the 'good listeners' are the ones being taken advantage of by the 'attention whores,' because they know they will find their audience. The system is flawed because the people are flawed, and there's plenty of reward and almost no risk for being 'disloyal.' The people are flawed because, for the most part, we're young. There's no community because there's no connection. I know bits and pieces about people here and there, but /shutdown severs that tie between your avatar and mine. It's easy to take advantage of someone in-game and simply not care about it. How often have we heard players say those playing RMT accounts aren't 'real people?' How many times, cross-servers, have LS leaders stolen away in the middle of the night with an LS bank worth hundreds of millions?

It happens in other games, too - remember the WoW funeral for a guild's member that was crashed by another guild and PKd all the members, then posted video of it and justifying it by saying they shouldn't have held it in a contested zone?

People are using others, and being used by still others every single day in this game. We go out as a group to get items for an individual. We only do it as a group because it's impossible to do it ourselves. We stab another in the back because our backs have been stabbed. We complain that so-and-so's LS botclaims this HNM because our LS's resident botter has an out of date version. We denounce RMT while IGE is taking our order.

We can all spin tales of how well an endgame shell should work, about how great this server would be if this or that happened or if all the shells joined into a megashell and dominated everything. Maybe this is the answer, maybe it isn't. Maybe the answer is simply an endgame shell that does something else. Does things that benefit all who join instead of one. ToAU seems to have a lot of this content. Assault gives everyone points for winning, and every job has something to work towards when they do it. ENMs are the same way - everyone who goes in gets something when you succeed. Maybe this is too easy, or too repetitive. Maybe that JP Limbus shell has it right - get one person everything and then move on to the next, and hope everyone stays.

I don't claim to have the answer any more than anyone else. But I'm not going to blindly believe there's some sort of quick fix out there that will have the server deny human nature and the ease of abandonment this game provides to create an instant utopia.
 
I'm actually curious as in which ways a lot of people think this server is "So far behind".

I know Blue Gartr's achievements have been mentioned a number of times in the thread. Would it surprise anyone to know that NA's on Quetz beat Vrtra before Blue Gartr? (and still back in the days before all of Blue Gartr's leaders went to WoW).
 
Blowy said:
I'm actually curious as in which ways a lot of people think this server is "So far behind".

I know Blue Gartr's achievements have been mentioned a number of times in the thread. Would it surprise anyone to know that NA's on Quetz beat Vrtra before Blue Gartr? (and still back in the days before all of Blue Gartr's leaders went to WoW).
It's behind in the terms of number of people able to do said events, some servers have many shells ably to kill tiamat, vrtra, and etc..

It's not so much NA vs JP as it is "How likely am I do said event". While Kaizen certainly has the ability to do just about anything the game has to offer, not everyone has the ability to be in kaizen, some servers have new shells killing tiamat within first month of existance and only break up a few months later, meanwhile on quetz only 1 NA shell can kill any wryms regularly, and only 1 other has ever killed any as well, and even then we usually had help from other shells most of the time.
 
Blowy said:
I'm actually curious as in which ways a lot of people think this server is "So far behind".

I know Blue Gartr's achievements have been mentioned a number of times in the thread. Would it surprise anyone to know that NA's on Quetz beat Vrtra before Blue Gartr? (and still back in the days before all of Blue Gartr's leaders went to WoW).

when? I know Kaizen didn't beat Vrtra before Blue Gartr... didn't beat any of the wyrms before them. And the only ones before you were a JP Dynamis LS that wanted to give it a go if I remember correctly. When did NA supposedly beat Vrtra before Blue Gartr? O.o And how is it that there wasn't a big thread about it? XD
 
Elemmire said:
when? I know Kaizen didn't beat Vrtra before Blue Gartr... didn't beat any of the wyrms before them. And the only ones before you were a JP Dynamis LS that wanted to give it a go if I remember correctly. When did NA supposedly beat Vrtra before Blue Gartr? O.o And how is it that there wasn't a big thread about it? XD

cause we don't act like pompous asses and brag about every single thing we do as soon as it happens. that'd probably explain why there's no "big thread" about what you're looking for.

being the first NA's to accomplish such and such is a meaningless term to us. i could spew off over a 100 things that we've done before anybody else, but we'd look just like the arrogant braggarts we try to avoid being.

we play the game for us, and for our own betterment and enjoyment.

not so we can show off.
 
Kisada said:
we play the game for us, and for our own betterment and enjoyment.

not so we can show off.

Exactly why Kaizen is as far as they are. There is no individual in Kaizen, they move as a unit. It's like a football team, it takes every man (or woman in this case) doing his/her job and doing it well and right to complete the task. That is what Kaizen does. That is why I love to go to Tiamat and just watch Kaizen utterly destroy it, not because I haven't killed it before myself ( because actually I have) but because to actually see a whole Ls working as a unit is just simply amazing.
 
Elemmire said:
when? I know Kaizen didn't beat Vrtra before Blue Gartr... didn't beat any of the wyrms before them. And the only ones before you were a JP Dynamis LS that wanted to give it a go if I remember correctly. When did NA supposedly beat Vrtra before Blue Gartr? O.o And how is it that there wasn't a big thread about it? XD

There wasn't a big thread about it, but there was a thread posted (by someone watching on). Elemmire even posted in it a few times.

For those whose memory is a little foggy (not Elemmire, I know she's just playing):

The Order of the Blue Gartr (NA Shell on Bahamut) first defeated Vrtra on 23/9/05. The first NA defeat of Vrtra on Quetzalcoatl was on 10/9/05 (and it was Kaizen).
 
I think the JP part of this server is about on par with the rest of the servers, maybe not in Sea, but as far as how many ridills e.body m.body and all walk vanadiel, I'm sure it's about the same. The big difference is really NA (and EU) vs. JP at King camps, NA is really far far behind, by lack of motivation I suppose. Even Kaizen rarely shows up to these camps lately, and they don't have that many of the pimp R/E equip those can drop.

There are even servers (Gilgamesh comes to mind) in which EU (which arrived much later) are more advanced than NA on this server... probably because they unite better due to being such a minority, I don't know.

Our Linkshell topology and the (bad) history behind the most powerful LS definitely has something to do with the situation.

Maybe people from Kaizen could answer that, because I am curious, but what is the minimum number of people inside the LS at any given time of the day? 4 ? 10 ? 15 ? This is a very important criteria to know what you can and cannot do, especially for Kings Camp and other rare pops. The server needs less but stronger LS, with higher mixtures of time-zones.
 
In my very very lowly and humble opinion... I think sky shells whom agree with eachother's insights should merge.. As someone far more experienced (name eludes me and I don't have time to re-read all the threads.. too early in morning I'd pass out) said.. while the "line" might be literally longer (100 people in line, not 50) there is now no CC between the two so things like Ulli (*grumble*) will give between 2-3 times MORE claims.
Why do I say 3 rather than just 2x more? Well if you consider 5 groups up there, everyone has a 20% chance if given the exact same parties. 4 groups it's 25% each, barring larger sizes, different jobs etc... however you now have 2 alliances up there for -1- shell if you want, which means that 20% chance they had before is now yours.. making you rather comfy. Also you can now do multiple things at once.. have an alliance of 12-18 for every pop item, rotate them and farm up something like 4 of each item.. every single week... without killing your members.

Rather than look at it as a longer line.. break down the line considerably cause now you have more possibilities to get the items you need, and less people to compete with.

Sky would be fine with a -maximum- of 14 shells, including JP -.- everyone knows this.. beyond that it gets retarded :/
 
Kalendor said:
Maybe people from Kaizen could answer that, because I am curious, but what is the minimum number of people inside the LS at any given time of the day? 4 ? 10 ? 15 ? This is a very important criteria to know what you can and cannot do, especially for Kings Camp and other rare pops. The server needs less but stronger LS, with higher mixtures of time-zones.

One of the problems with shells stuck in Sky is that when you need members to be all available at the same times, you end up with a linkshell full of people from the same timezones. While this is a strength in Sky, it's a weakness on a lot of other HNMs as it gives you a very narrow window in which you can camp things like Kings, CoP Wyrms, Cerberus etc.
 
Blowy said:
One of the problems with shells stuck in Sky is that when you need members to be all available at the same times, you end up with a linkshell full of people from the same timezones. While this is a strength in Sky, it's a weakness on a lot of other HNMs as it gives you a very narrow window in which you can camp things like Kings, CoP Wyrms, Cerberus etc.

That shouldn't matter since any real end-game raiding guild has a phone tree for world spawns :p

"Hello is Nasypoo there, this is gimsy from the internet there be e-dragons to kill... wake up chop chop... oh this is her grandmother ... uh hi"
 
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Hmmm.

Sky/Sea = big money drops, ability to pimp out an LS faster, doesn't take as much time to kill

Wyrms = 2-4 hour kill time, so-so money drops, and bragging rights.

Dynamis = 1 hour wait time, 3 hour fight time, small chance you'll get possession of AF2 in one night

Yah I'd can say I assisted to kill a wyrm or 2, but it doesn't seem worth it to me to brag about it. I'll tell u something that I'd rather brag about:

All my members have Optical hats, including mages
All my members have Divine Might earrings
All my WHMs have A. head, A. legs, rostrum pumps, & Nobles tunics
All my PLD have w. legs and koenig abjurations, BQ rings
All my MNKs have suzaku suneates, kirin's polls, and have access to osodes
All my BLMs will have ALL HQ Staves, Rostrum Pumps, etc
Little to no turn-over rate.

. . . and the list goes on.

Does that mean that my shell is not as good as a shell that does wyrms because all we do are sky and pop NMs? Does that mean we're not able to do a Wyrm if we wanted to?

Sorry, at the moment I just don't think big kills are worth it. Maybe in the future I'll try it out just to say we did it - but that's for self gratification, not to prove to quetz that SA is better than any other.

Don't get me wrong, it's nice to be the "first" on the server to do something. But anything on the server can be beaten if u have a good strategy. It's not rocket science, it's a game.

And as for the revolving door of players, obviously you guys aren't recruiting the right people.

That's my 2 cents.
 
I'm actually curious as in which ways a lot of people think this server is "So far behind".

I know Blue Gartr's achievements have been mentioned a number of times in the thread. Would it surprise anyone to know that NA's on Quetz beat Vrtra before Blue Gartr? (and still back in the days before all of Blue Gartr's leaders went to WoW).

Our server is behind, because such petty items that "shouldn't" be so damn rare among our community (I.e Koenig bodies, Dalmaticas) are considered the shit if your an NA to have one. Other servers, that shit is so common, they're throwing Koenig Bodies to WARs, Ridells to SAMs (ok maybe not that lol :D).

Lets also not mention the fact, how difficult it is for LS's to have arranged times of a group of 30+ ppl to take down such a big event, and having them all show up at the same time, willing to spend some gil prepared on the neccessary equip that makes "THAT MUCH" of a difference (i.e laziness) and hoping the mob is up and unclaimed. It just pisses me off when I see a JP with a Dalmatica, and using electrum rings, an NQ blue cape, errant gear.

Oh also how 10 out of 12 months of this year, for some damn reason most King HNM windows, are so "conveniently" setup during JP Prime time hours.
 
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