Racial profiling to be legalized!

I'm gonna laugh when consumers in AZ start having to pay A LOT more for the majority of the goods and services provided by immigrants, illegal or not.
 
Truthfully i am from AZ and opposed to this but not from a racial profiling prospective but from a perspective of precedence and constitutionality.

As far as the constitution is concerned immigration is not a state issue as movement between the states is free. This new law is creating a federal law on a state level which is not allowed. If they wanted to make it where they could remove the illegal immigrants from the state then it would be a different issue but removing them from the country is an overstep of their authority. Now with that in mind if this same law was done on a national level there would be no issue with it constitutionally so long as it were used in conjunction with a national ID program and the checking of the ID was made universal with any violation or suspicion.

Now the second issue i have with this is the precedence that it sets... I am strongly opposed to a national ID card program as i do not think it is necessary to ask someone for their papers every time they are questioned. The only thing that will do is further alienate those who live in the cracks.

I hate illegal immigration as much as the next racist tea bagger but my reasons may be different. I am for a nearly completely open border but strongly opposed to amnesty, making citizenship easier and birth right citizenship... I dont care if you are here and want to work but dont expect to vote unless you show an interest in the citizenship process...

I doubt this law will be strongly enforced and i expect that Arpaio will put on a show with it to "encourage" illegals to move to NM, CA, or TX rather than call AZ home, much like he has done in the past with some of his antics. With some of his other actions even though most illegal immigrants come across the border in the AZ desert significantly less stay there when compared to California.
 
Synelia said:
See that? You already realize the bill is targeting Hispanics.
Hexx's point still stands... when they pull over someone of non-Hispanic descent then they can come back and say that the bill isn't racist.
And your commentary is pretty much mirroring that sentiment.

What makes illegal Mexicans easier targets then any other ethnic group? And how do you know the others are significantly smaller? They are here illegally after all, and logically, that should mean the exact numbers are unknown.
Unless you know something we don't. I mean if you have evidence that hispanics are more likely to be illegal immigrants then Filipinos, Chinese, Western Europeans, Canadians then please let us know, so that the nice people in Arizona can help the rest of the country become more secure. Because then they'd KNOW who to pull over and they won't anger the same person they've pulled over five times in the same day.
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I've also heard that males born with a double Y chromosome are more likely to perpetrate violent crimes. Does that mean that any law discouraging violent behavior is specifically targeting them? No.

You're right, though - I do know that Hispanics make up the bulk of illegals in this country, and how do I know this?

By a simple application of logic. Here's an example for ya:

I see on the news, on not one but several occasions, crowds of hundreds of thousands of self-proclaimed illegal immigrants proudly displaying the flag of their native country and demonstrating in my nation’s capitol for some form of amnesty from prosecution for being here illegally.

That tells me that either, A) Hispanic illegals are innately more honest and forthright than any other group of illegals in the country, or B) they represent the bulk of our illegal immigrants.

Furthermore, if I go with option B and I’m not seeing large gatherings of other nationalities on the news, then either A) the traditionally liberal-leaning mainstream media in our country has decided to forward a racist agenda by ignoring other such gatherings, or B) there aren’t any. But maybe I'm just being misled and every mainstream news source in the country has a vested interest in stirring up the anger of the populace against illegals hailing from our immediate south.

Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against anyone who wants to come to this country. It’s sort of what we’re supposed to be about. What I do have a problem with is people who don’t even seem willing to meet us halfway and do it legally. That being said, I would like to see some changes in our immigration policies, for as I understand it right now, it’s not all that easy to become a citizen here. That doesn’t sit well with me.
 
Its funny how this country's racist history just repeats itself over and over again. At no point in this country's history has there been no group of people that hasnt been discriminated against. Blacks, asians, hispanics, native americans, hell even some europeans, were all victims of racism, discrimination, and laws that specifically targeted them to make their lives much more difficult.

Go ahead and claim its all for the sake of immigration, this country is no less secure now than it was nine years ago when 9/11 happened. Only difference now is people are a lot more paranoid. if and when all the immigrants, be they latino or otherwise, leave and there is nobody to provide you with your cheap labor, see if you (not you specifically Reauland) cry out about goods not being cheap.
 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36735281/ns/politics-more_politics

Woohoo!!!!! Score one for the the U.S. state of Arizona.

Any Mexican who thinks this bill is unfair has a relative or a friend or two trying to come into this country illegally. They probably know someone that has been trying, and or supports their illegal entry into this country. All of you illegal sonofabitches think you have the same right as the rest of us legal citizens in this country and that's gotta stop. You want to live and work in the U.S.? Become a citizen, fight for this country, die for this country, and pay some fucking taxes just like the rest of us. You dickheads have changed a lot of things for the rest of us legal U.S. citizens and not for the better. Obama wants to call this bill "misguided"? He's been too busy being Uncle Tom to know what's really going on.

I think we should set up motion detector automated weapons up and down the U.S./Mexican border. That should stop a lot of those illegal fucks from coming into this country and screwing it up for the rest of us.
 
Duddits said:
You dickheads have changed a lot of things for the rest of us legal U.S. citizens and not for the better. Obama wants to call this bill "misguided"? He's been too busy being Uncle Tom to know what's really going on.
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No racism here, folks.
 
yeah wow, that's pretty harsh duddits, you cant put yourself in their shoes for even a minute? You live in a country where there's pretty much nothing but poverty, corruption, and violence on a scale most Americans have never experienced. you wouldn't do what it takes to get your children a better life?

While i may not agree its always the best option, or have the best outcome for the rest of us. I personally have a hell of alot of respect for anyone who treks threw a fucking DESERT to get their kids a better life. I can't sit here and say i wouldn't try to do the same thing in their situation. and no "become a us citizen" isn't an easy answer, the waiting list is years long and that's IF you even come up for consideration.

I agree we can't just let everyone in that wants in, our country couldn't sustain it, but i cant hold it against someone for trying.

and this bill goes to far, it basically puts the burden on all Hispanics to carry proof of their citizenship at all times. and basically labels Hispanics "suspects" across the board, what about the ones who are here legally, or were born here, but don't have "papers".

That being said i don't think its simple racism driving this, a huge influx of illegals DOES have negative effects on the areas they come into, crime, poverty, more of our tax dollars going to take care of those who aren't contributing a dime, hell there are people being KILLED in their homes along these drug trafficking routes. and there wouldn't be a need for an overreaching bill like this if our CURRENT laws had been enforced from the getgo. or if the past few(and current) administrations hadn't spent their entire time twiddling their thumbs on this issue.

I'm all for a NON amnesty immigration reform, but this just isn't right.

Shit its a big complicated heartbreaking issue, and I can't claim to know what the right solution is, but this isn't it. :(
 
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Carrying papers in one's wallet is just asking for hassle. You're on your way to work. A police officer notices you have a tan and throws on the lights and siren. If the process of checking the ID in question here is as lengthy as the one for a speeding ticket, expect to sit around for 20 minutes. It'd be much easier for everyone involved if Hispanics were forced to wear their proof of citizenship publicly. Perhaps every legal Hispanic American citizen could wear, say, a big yellow star on their sleeve? It'd be faster for everyone involved.
 
I'm quite often floored with how the simplest things can be of no value around here. Hell, I think it wouldn't surprise me at this point, but never the less, it does.

I'll take the time to remind you that along with murder, rape, and smuggling, being here illegally is a crime.

There was a time when there wasn't a need for a driver's license in our society. As more and more people started attaining vehicles and driving, there needed to be more strict regulations placed on the PRIVILEGE of driving. Did people think it was going to be a hassle? I'm sure they did as something they were not accustomed to having in society was now a part of it, a heavy part. I'm sure it took a while to get to where it has today, but look at how it turned out. Now we've hit a time when we can't even afford ourselves, much less a freeloader and something needs to be done. This process, fortunately, has a back leg to stand on, after all being here illegally is ILLEGAL. It shouldn't shock an illegal immigrant that it's illegal and they are subject to the law any more so than it would a person who just committed a murder and is being sought out. It will take time for it to settle, but it's not wrong, at all, to ENFORCE THE LAW. Will a bunch of legals be subject to some minor inconveniences, just like the people pre driving license days? Sure they will, but since they are legal they have nothing to fear.

Change takes time and with it come inconveniences. If you think this change is unnecessary I challenge you to better yourself to the point where paying taxes, to a certain amount, pisses you off. Quite frankly I'm sick of my hard earned money going to every Tom, Dick, and Sally that have the misfortune of not being capable to achieve what is placed on a field of fair game for most all legals to obtain. Throw an illegal in the mix and that goes more than double.
 
Unfortunately I'm not going to budge when it comes to my opinion on this subject. People that come into this country illegally are here for the sole purpose of taking advantage of what this country has to offer at the expense of its legal citizens. Like Strid said, I too am sick and tired of my hard earned money going to people that are unwilling to follow the laws of the land.

You want to live and work in this country? Fine. We'll give you an M16, a few clips of ammo, about a weeks worth of food and ship your ass to the front lines in Afghanistan. Rack up at least 20 confirmed kills and If you survive, then you can become a U.S. citizen. If you still don't want to become a legal U.S. citizen after that...GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY COUNTRY!!!
 
1) Illegal Immigrants who break the law are criminals. Just by being here they are in the act of commiting a crime. This is indisputable fact.

2) This bill does nothing more than enforce the law. Obviously 99.99% of the people are going to be hispanic. They are the ones breaking the law.

3) If I were a Latino from south of the border of course I would try to break into the U.S. also. Who wouldn't??? That's the risk they choose to take when they flee a 3rd world country.

4) There is NOTHING wrong with racial profiling. If a white male robs a convience store, your not going to start pulling over asian females in the area and questioning there whereabouts so you can be pc.

5) I'm not unsympathic to the illegals but you can't just let undocumented people stroll across the border anytime they want to in a post 911 world. We live in a different world now.
 
Odd to find myself agreeing with Tom, but it does happen occasionally.

If you write a law to target a specific form of law-breaking behavior, and that particular brand of behavior is practiced largely by a specific minority group, then the law is not automatically a racist law, no matter what said minority group likes to fool themselves with.

It's no more racist than laws preventing cannibalism are, since after all, there are very specific minority groups that have cannibalism as part of their cultural heritage, and these individuals would be fairly easy to profile for if human bones started showing up with tooth marks on them.
 
Illegals aren't the reason this law is wrong. Nobody's saying illegals should stay. We should deport illegals. Does anyone here think that even one Hispanic in this country isn't a criminal? It's a remote possibility, I know. What I don't want is the legal Hispanics being pulled over all the time and asked for ID and generally inconvenienced while members of pretty much every other ethnicity have no problems whatsoever. If driver's licenses were only for black people, it'd be a valid comparison. If only Asians needed to show license and registration on being pulled over, it might be close. Any Hispanic, even the legal ones that nobody seems to care about here, will be pretty much harassed at will. That's not right. It's the legal citizens we need to protect from unfair practices.
 
Pompidou said:
Illegals aren't the reason this law is wrong. Nobody's saying illegals should stay. We should deport illegals. Does anyone here think that even one Hispanic in this country isn't a criminal? It's a remote possibility, I know. What I don't want is the legal Hispanics being pulled over all the time and asked for ID and generally inconvenienced while members of pretty much every other ethnicity have no problems whatsoever. If driver's licenses were only for black people, it'd be a valid comparison. If only Asians needed to show license and registration on being pulled over, it might be close. Any Hispanic, even the legal ones that nobody seems to care about here, will be pretty much harassed at will. That's not right. It's the legal citizens we need to protect from unfair practices.
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People suffer inconveniences in this world all of the time. It's something we have to deal with. They make the choice when they enter here to accept the laws of our society as well as the inconveniences and burdens they bare. Every person has their own set of inconveniences and just because the laws of society may brush against them are no reason to cry foul play. If you're legal you have nothing to fear. You show a Green Card or other proof of a valid stay and you're on your way. You use the word harass like causing an inconvenience for someone is a harassment, I suggest you learn the true meaning of the word, especially if you want to claim any sense of invalidity in my words.

As stands through your suggestion, the person/s responsible for inventing the automobile should not have done so and we should stop allowing them in society. Despite how convenient they are for the majority of us, they cause a lot of pain and suffering (inconvenience for most of us, harassment for you) for those who have lost loved ones because of their existence. Should we deal away with everything that causes inconvenience in our society? Laws, money, property, etc. No, we buck up and deal with them the best way we can and do so free and clear so when those inconveniences arise there is nothing to fear.

Now I realize there is no sense in talkin' sense into a mule, so you don't have to "get" me, but stop tryin' to justify an unjustifiable point.
 
Everybody that drives an automobile requires a license. Only Hispanics require proof of citizenship. That's my problem. There's got to be a difference in your eyes between traffic jams or speeding tickets, and being questioned by the police simply because of your skin color. Maybe they can walk up to every black person they see while they're at it and ask, "Did you pay for that pack of gum?" with a sort of tone that implies they doubt it.

Edit: And what choice was made by Hispanics that were born here? The problem with this thread, and most of the people in it, is the assumption that every single Hispanic is fresh across the Rio Grande. Hand'em a towel fresh. Not every Hispanic is even an immigrant. Do you carry proof of citizenship on you at all times? I don't. I'll never have to, fortunately. I'm a middle class white male, so I have no problems in life. We can't focus only on legal or illegal immigrants. Immigrants isn't the key word. Looking like a Mexican is the key. Many aren't fresh immigrants. I'm Irish. My family came here at least as early as the potato famine - not entirely sure, but we're certainly not recent Irish immigrants, and neither are many Hispanics. Let's not think only of "immigrants", but the race as a whole. I was born here, and if suddenly the Irish were a problem, I made no choice in the matter.
 
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Pompidou said:
Everybody that drives an automobile requires a license. Only Hispanics require proof of citizenship. That's my problem.
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I think you have a problem with this because you're wrong. 100% wrong. I know the laws vary from state to state but I'll tell you right now, the state of Maryland requires that anyone who applies for a drivers license, and I mean ANYONE, needs to show proof of citizenship. Not just Hispanics. I couldn't get my Maryland drivers license the other day because of it. I'm a military brat born in Germany and I don't have a birth certificate. I have a certificate of birth abroad which serves as the same purpose and I couldn't find it. I eventually found it that night but if I hadn't, I would've had to go through the U.S. state department to get a copy of it which takes a minimum of 4-8 weeks. I mentioned in an earlier post that illegals are changing things in this country and not for the better...this is one of those.
 
Pompidou said:
Everybody that drives an automobile requires a license. Only Hispanics require proof of citizenship. That's my problem. There's got to be a difference in your eyes between traffic jams or speeding tickets, and being questioned by the police simply because of your skin color. Maybe they can walk up to every black person they see while they're at it and ask, "Did you pay for that pack of gum?" with a sort of tone that implies they doubt it.

Edit: And what choice was made by Hispanics that were born here? The problem with this thread, and most of the people in it, is the assumption that every single Hispanic is fresh across the Rio Grande. Hand'em a towel fresh. Not every Hispanic is even an immigrant. Do you carry proof of citizenship on you at all times? I don't. I'll never have to, fortunately. I'm a middle class white male, so I have no problems in life. We can't focus only on legal or illegal immigrants. Immigrants isn't the key word. Looking like a Mexican is the key. Many aren't fresh immigrants. I'm Irish. My family came here at least as early as the potato famine - not entirely sure, but we're certainly not recent Irish immigrants, and neither are many Hispanics. Let's not think only of "immigrants", but the race as a whole. I was born here, and if suddenly the Irish were a problem, I made no choice in the matter.
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A couple of things you're missing. A U.S. Driver's License is a proof of valid stay. As Duddits said, everyone has to have proof of residence within the U.S. to gain one. Therefore, when any of us are in question with the law we're forced to show proof of residency in some manner. If you don't have a license you'll provide proof of residency in some other manner, like a court visit for example or when they run your records. Lastly, you're assuming this will be used to just pull over a Mexican driving because the cop sees a brown person in the car. The cop can't stop the person unless the person is either suspicious or has done something wrong, goes for all of us. The only thing now is that when they are stopped, they can be asked to show proof of residency, which unlike cases before the law, will catch illegals immediately instead of them dodging court to be caught hence giving them time to escape back without penalty. Now, cops pull people over or do questionable things so yeah, some people will suffer this abuse of power, but that by far isn't the norm and we're all capable of finding ourselves in that position at some point and time. You're also dead wrong about people here, assuming mostly me, that we're turning a blind eye to the legals. In EVERY SINGLE post I have stated their will be inconveniences for them (legals). For my thoughts on that you need to just go back and read my other posts as I'm not going into it yet.

I'm not right sure why you think our country operates any different than any other on this manner or why it should. If I was to haul off and go to Japan without a passport or anything I'd be subjected to the same treatment Mexicans would face here. It's a privilege to live in any other nation other than your born nation, not a right. We've been extremely lax with immigration for far to long in our country so cryin' when things stiffen up a bit is a bit silly.
 
Just to give you an update on the drivers license issue. I went to the Maryland MVA today to get my license and had my Certificate of Birth Abroad (Form FS-240) with me and they wouldn't accept the fucking thing because it's a photocopy that doesn't have a raised seal on it. Now I have no choice but to go through the State Department to get the right document. It's the only document I or my father have ever had showing my proof of citizenship and it's been used in the past to renew my passport. Now it's not sufficient anymore. All this because of terrorists and fucking illegals.

This is a perfect example of how these assholes are fucking it up for the rest of us.
 
Strid said:
You use the word harass like causing an inconvenience for someone is a harassment, I suggest you learn the true meaning of the word, especially if you want to claim any sense of invalidity in my words.
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There's a reason we have the phrase "driving while black." When the "inconvenience" targets a specific group over and over again for no other reason than skin color, it crosses well into the harassment zone.
 
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