/random at king camp wipes

neophytal said:
lol, alliances are limited to 18 people, so if you had 30, it wouldnt help you much.

its more of just a bragging right if you can kill it with less people, really....

a kill is a kill at the end of the day.
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I know they are, but when someone dies you can still kick them from the alliance and replace them, which was what I was refering to. And thus the word "Zerging"

And if its a bragging right to kill it with less people, then why are people saying things like "LOLs, your last kill took 42 min suckers!"

On another note, I find it rather hillarious how the very people who say stuff like that are also the people who say that NA end game sucks, who are also the very people who refuce to "recognize" other shells and make any kind of deal with them...

With such a bad attitude towards other shells, how do you expect Quetzy NA end-game to get anywhere? You say other servers LS's work together and have fun together, and yet, when LS's on Quetzy team up to do anything, you say things like "That doesn't count! They didn't do it alone, they teamed up!"
 
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Uzor said:
I know they are, but when someone dies you can still kick them from the alliance and replace them, which was what I was refering to. And thus the word "Zerging"
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as far as i know of, people just bring so many people to get a better shot at the claim, so i guess they feel they can use as many people out of those as they want.
 
Or for some LS's it is just about getting together to work on a common goal. I know at some things we bring alot but it is only because we see the LS in an area and the first thing some ask is "What do you need me as so I can head there now" Sometimes it is just a great feeling knowing your out to accomplish something and when a member first signs on that is the response you get.
 
The thing that amuses me is this:

IF you bot:

You got a program that basically Claims a mob for you. If I am correct, it just reads the netcode incoming and looks for "MONSTER X" and when it appears in the code, it preforms an action right? I.E. Provoke, Dia, Flash, etc...

Now...

What edge exactly does that give over a legitimate player in the end? To me it seems like the legitimate player has the edge. They don't need the netcode processed by a third party program, creating latencies. You are using FFXI itself to default the action you request to a mob and preform it (I.E. spamming Voke from the menu).

So...

If you have 5 people botting... Does that garuntee they will all claim? In all honesty the only people that cry about this kind of shit are botters with inferior bots that can't understand how they get beaten. It's the "I bot and lose, they must have better bots than me." ideal. You have a 0.5 - 2.0 second window variable that a mob is unclaimable. I think it's more plausable that more claims are made by legitimate people overall. I mean hell, the the embarrassment of my LS, I claimed a Fafnir once using a Comet Tail boomerang...

With success comes jealousy... With Failure comes blame...
 
Phraust said:
The thing that amuses me is this:

IF you bot:

You got a program that basically Claims a mob for you. If I am correct, it just reads the netcode incoming and looks for "MONSTER X" and when it appears in the code, it preforms an action right? I.E. Provoke, Dia, Flash, etc...

Now...

What edge exactly does that give over a legitimate player in the end? To me it seems like the legitimate player has the edge. They don't need the netcode processed by a third party program, creating latencies. You are using FFXI itself to default the action you request to a mob and preform it (I.E. spamming Voke from the menu).

So...

If you have 5 people botting... Does that garuntee they will all claim? In all honesty the only people that cry about this kind of shit are botters with inferior bots that can't understand how they get beaten. It's the "I bot and lose, they must have better bots than me." ideal. You have a 0.5 - 2.0 second window variable that a mob is unclaimable. I think it's more plausable that more claims are made by legitimate people overall. I mean hell, the the embarrassment of my LS, I claimed a Fafnir once using a Comet Tail boomerang...

With success comes jealousy... With Failure comes blame...
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if you have 5 people botting, and its coordinated, you can have each person take a certain time. It would give you an edge over legit players. You can't coordinate down to miliseconds as you can with bots.
 
Phraust,

Bots have advantage because in reality they take out the latency, they don't create it. The server actually sends you the information for monster pop before it actually spawns. It sends it with latency to pop (very small latency, not large enough for person to notice, but large enough for a computer to notice). This precaution just give the client game time to process and load proper resources into memory (move the graphics for processing, no this does not mean you can track it loading the .dat for fafnir/nidhogg, those dats are loaded when you zone in, but they aren't actually processed until it pops). Take this with a grain of salt though, SE changed a few times how their packets worked, I'm sure they done since I gained my knowledge. Yeah, I know this stuff, no I don't bot. I haven't claimed a single NM in my life so I wouldn't really start flaming me for knowing the way the game process information.

EDIT: this doesn't help with the .5-2 second wait period before you can claim, that information is stored serverwide only
 
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Zoolander said:
I think the real issue is so many LSs camping when they have next to no chance to kill shit. This shit is really getting old, and ive only been camping for about two weeks. Some of these shells need to go back to sky or stick to behemoth, because all you are doing is fucking over the people that spent months raising skill lvl and practicing as a team to become able to take anything out there.

Maybe I shouldnt say this either, but honestly, im too pissed off not to. Just hand kaizen Nidhogg? As if they werent nearly given it last week as well? They already have M bodies going to freaking wars? The fuck are you thinking? At least make them claim shit like everyone else, instead of sucking their dick just to get on their good graces. Not blaming kaizen for it, since obviously you dont say no to a Nidhogg....but jeese.

/end rant
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Everyone knows it takes time to learn to kill mobs efficiently... takes a few long late nights to learn it the hard way
 
Stouter said:
Originally Posted by Watchyourstep
My penis is large
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Mine's bigger.Mine's bigger.
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Yes, but apparently WYS's is Chinese, camps NMs and Sells gil too!
 
Phraust said:
The thing that amuses me is this:

IF you bot:

You got a program that basically Claims a mob for you. If I am correct, it just reads the netcode incoming and looks for "MONSTER X" and when it appears in the code, it preforms an action right? I.E. Provoke, Dia, Flash, etc...

Now...

What edge exactly does that give over a legitimate player in the end? To me it seems like the legitimate player has the edge. They don't need the netcode processed by a third party program, creating latencies. You are using FFXI itself to default the action you request to a mob and preform it (I.E. spamming Voke from the menu).

So...

If you have 5 people botting... Does that garuntee they will all claim? In all honesty the only people that cry about this kind of shit are botters with inferior bots that can't understand how they get beaten. It's the "I bot and lose, they must have better bots than me." ideal. You have a 0.5 - 2.0 second window variable that a mob is unclaimable. I think it's more plausable that more claims are made by legitimate people overall. I mean hell, the the embarrassment of my LS, I claimed a Fafnir once using a Comet Tail boomerang...

With success comes jealousy... With Failure comes blame...
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Even if what you say is true, that a legitimate player has a better chance of claiming, it doesn't remove the fact that a bot can still get claim. If the botter even claims just once, they have effectively made the effort of cheating worthwhile and taken something they have no right taking. They stole that mob as far as I am concerned and no amount of past or future claims brings back what should have gone to the legitimate players.

Now you seem to think legitimate players have the advantage and I don't think that's entirely true. A bot can effectively stop early claims and will never get the system message if you set a proper delay time. However, this isn't the main problem. The main problem is a large group of botters will have a superior chance of claim. From my understanding, the bots have set delays which can be changed, if that's true, all a group of botters need do is set delays along small intervals to improve their chances. Does it guarantee claim? No. But it sure does give them a far better chance than the average legitimate player.
 
Artem said:
The server actually sends you the information for monster pop before it actually spawns. It sends it with latency to pop (very small latency, not large enough for person to notice, but large enough for a computer to notice).
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What would be the rationale for that?
I mean what's the benefit of sending the data that a mob spawned to the client before actually spawing it on the server?

Along the same lines, if you are going to talk about latency, let's not forget network latency and geographic server location. I would think that NA players don't get anything lower than perhaps 150ms pings to the FFXI server, while I am confident that JP players get less than 60ms if they are on broadband.
 
It doesn't tell you it's spawned, it sends it tells the computer that it will spawn to load necessary data. If you track some packets before the spawn of NM, you can notice that after a certain packet the computer begins extra processing. It does the same thing for normal mobs, everytime before spawn with small latency similar process gets called which I can only assume to be the spawning mechanism. It should in theory help nullify the latency between here and japan, but considering this whole processing on average takes about 30 ms from what I have seen, it has no effect. I suspect this was implemented for ps2's sake. I could be wrong, that's just my observation.

.5-2 second delay before claim nullifies the latency completely unless you are running on a crappy network. If you are running on more than 250 ms ping, that can't really be helped by SE... so, the server spawns the mob, takes 250 ms to receive it, 250 ms to send back a command (with spamming your provoke reaction time has no effect) and you will still be able to claim it, but beyond 250 ms ping you are in bad shape unless you have mad luck
 
Sculli said:
Along the same lines, if you are going to talk about latency, let's not forget network latency and geographic server location. I would think that NA players don't get anything lower than perhaps 150ms pings to the FFXI server, while I am confident that JP players get less than 60ms if they are on broadband.
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This is no longer relevant, since now mobs are unclaimable for anywhere from 2-5 seconds randomly when they spawn.

As for why the information is sent before the mob pops... Who knows? A lot of the coding for this game is wonky and makes no sense. But the fact of the matter is that the information is sent before the mob pops. This has been proven in various topics on hacking the game that I've seen on sites like allakhazam.

The main benefit the botters get over the non-botters is that their bots will fire regardless of what happens. They can be afk and still attempt to claim ala Heidegger. If I'm afk or any other legit person is afk, that's one less chance for my ls to claim. Then sometimes in heavy camps like Faf or Behemoth when it's time for the mob to spawn my game lags to heavily that I have no chance to claim because my game all but locks up for 5 seconds. The bot would fire off anyway. The main point is that no, human players have no advantage over bots. While they are possible to beat, they have the advantage of a perfect claim attempt vs a possibly flawed human attempt.
 
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