Ranger Invites... non-existant?!

Lavi said:
If you need to hold back, it means you are limiting your damage. That's not something I'd want or expect from a party member.
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So do BLM not have to hold back anymore? ... my brother .. before he left was a pretty good BLM to my understanding.. and based on our conversations, he had to limit his nukes to keep from pulling down too much hate. Same as any melee capable of dealing a shitload of damage, yet can't take a hit worth a damn, needs to learn to control his damage.

I have no problem holding back a bit. It is closely related to self preservation. I have not been able to party with a PLD yet after this last update, but I would assume, from what I read, I will be able to kick it up a notch.

I don't think the job sucks. It is probably one of the more dificult jobs I have messed with. And I know I am still a noob... I have 0 jobs at 75, 1 at 51, 2 at or close to 40, 5 at 30, a hand full between 1-20... RNG is fun, its tricky, requires more then auto attacking and random /ja's. To me, all of the "nerf" of RNG makes it a challenge, which is why its fun.
 
Lavi, I understand what you are saying, I've made a lot of people loose TP because of bad WS timing. But you can't blame it all on the ranger. People got lazy. People don't make macros or SC anymore. If a WAR would only take 2 seconds to make a WS macro with a 2 seconds delay in it, no need for a <call>, just some heads up, then I know a WS is coming and I'll wait. I'll wait so the WAR doesn't loose TP but I can also SC with the WS.

Edit: Or just some simple TP report, it's not hard, we all used to have one in our macro bar.

It's really not harder now to party with a competent ranger. Key word is competent, if he is opening with Barrage and WS right after then yeah, the ranger is screwing and slowing your party. But if you get a Ranger who actually knows when to WS and Barrage it can speed up the exp. I've seen some great War doing impressive Rampages but when it comes time to finish the mob, Slug Shot/Sidewinder will do it faster (or should anyway). Plus don't discard a BRD + Acid bolt using ranger. That will improve the whole party's dmg output and speed up things further.

On a side note, when is ranger going ot get some haste gear, IE "Improves Snapshot". Right now, it's the only job that has 0 use of any haste gear/spell and access to 0 useful haste gear. The only haste you can get is from merits, compared to every other DD who can take benefit of gear/spells/songs. When SE removed the melee part of a ranger's dmg, all that haste gear became obsolete. If SE wants to keep ranger's attack as it is it's fine with me (sorta...) but give us a chance to improve TP gain like every other DD. Or just make Haste affect ranged attack. Simple.
 
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meeze said:
thats it!!! Have the BLM stun instead of MB. gtfo lol.

Back in the days slugwinder was like voke, and the mob turned instantly for a THF. Now it's marginal.
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If you are fighting bats and you have a RNG and a THF in the party there really isn't much life left on the mob for a MB to even be worth it. Unless you open a fight with a SC, then that is when you have the DRK stun. 500-650 SW + 550-635 SATAVB + SC DMG = dead mob. I'm thinking the RNG tat has trouble turning a mob with SW/SS is a shitty RNG.
 
Motoguzzi said:
So do BLM not have to hold back anymore? ... my brother .. before he left was a pretty good BLM to my understanding.. and based on our conversations, he had to limit his nukes to keep from pulling down too much hate. Same as any melee capable of dealing a shitload of damage, yet can't take a hit worth a damn, needs to learn to control his damage.

I have no problem holding back a bit. It is closely related to self preservation. I have not been able to party with a PLD yet after this last update, but I would assume, from what I read, I will be able to kick it up a notch.

I don't think the job sucks. It is probably one of the more dificult jobs I have messed with. And I know I am still a noob... I have 0 jobs at 75, 1 at 51, 2 at or close to 40, 5 at 30, a hand full between 1-20... RNG is fun, its tricky, requires more then auto attacking and random /ja's. To me, all of the "nerf" of RNG makes it a challenge, which is why its fun.
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RNG used to be similar to BLM, you paced yourself until you knew you could kill it, then go all out.

As NIN, I partied with a RNG who went all out at 55/56 and I kept hate from her. I still own hate on RNGs even after the latest patch, and thats coming from a NIN with enmity gear only on arhats gear, no ringsor earrings.
 
There isn't a need to pace anymore. You can pretty much barrage slugwinder any time after first voke with any good NIN, and I'd assume a below average PLD should be ok as well.
 
meeze said:
There isn't a need to pace anymore. You can pretty much barrage slugwinder any time after first voke with any good NIN, and I'd assume a below average PLD should be ok as well.
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I've never partied with a Ninja who could hold hate from me, without holding back. Only a PLD has been able to do this...

...with Cover. :rolleyes:
 
SoD said:
If you are fighting bats and you have a RNG and a THF in the party there really isn't much life left on the mob for a MB to even be worth it. Unless you open a fight with a SC, then that is when you have the DRK stun. 500-650 SW + 550-635 SATAVB + SC DMG = dead mob. I'm thinking the RNG tat has trouble turning a mob with SW/SS is a shitty RNG.
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500-650 SW? Ouch...
 
Dowzer said:
I've never partied with a Ninja who could hold hate from me, without holding back. Only a PLD has been able to do this...

...with Cover. :rolleyes:
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This has been my experience as well.
 
Dowzer said:
I've never partied with a Ninja who could hold hate from me, without holding back. Only a PLD has been able to do this...

...with Cover. :rolleyes:
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with merits I'd assume that would be the case, especially against mobs weak to piercing like birds.
 
Yeah, if the mobs aren't weak to piercing a Nin -might- have a chance at holding hate. However, as soon as Barrage/Slugwinder let loose, so does all hell which the Ninja can't get back. (Unless said Ranger takes massive dmg/dies)

For piercing weak mobs that don't attack like rams; colibri, bats, and damselfy can be tanked by Ranger, easily. I wish I could have burned with 3 other rangers during this time:

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/6515/sofunvp6.jpg
 
Dowzer said:
Yeah, if the mobs aren't weak to piercing a Nin -might- have a chance at holding hate. However, as soon as Barrage/Slugwinder let loose, so does all hell which the Ninja can't get back. (Unless said Ranger takes massive dmg/dies)

For piercing weak mobs that don't attack like rams; colibri, bats, and damselfy can be tanked by Ranger, easily. I wish I could have burned with 3 other rangers during this time:

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/6515/sofunvp6.jpg
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unfortunately, Fraps wasn't up on this particular day.. but we had a NIN tanking in GC on Chamber beetles and Funnel bats. I let a barrage fly for 1268 which resulted in my death. In contrast; same party, barraged a beetle for 806... or something.. is was barely over 800.. (side note: BLM was nuking his new freeze spell for 700ish .. at 300mp? i believe..)

edit: I forgot to make my point... The NIN could not even try to keep the bats off me... the beetle came after me, but he got it back after I took 2 hits. Which you rangers know means over half my HP store.
 
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Again, THF+RNG combo is largely non-existant now. Back before the nerf, it was one of if not the most common party setups available. There are and will always be tons of THFs seeking at any time and with everyone wanting to be a top DD, RNGs were plentiful. The problem now is that there is no suitable way to hold a mob in a stationary position for a THF to get a SATA off. Even if you had a BLM use stun, it still complicates things. For starters, timing stun perfectly is difficult. I don't doubt the BLM can stun before the mob moves too far, but if the BLM goes to early, it'll still be staring at the tank and can mess with SA. Then there always is the problem of stun interfering with casting the MB. Casting back-to-back spells slows down reaction times and messes with the MB window of opportunity especially on longer casts like AM and Tier IV.

Forcing a ranger to stand back a distance in my opinion forces them to limit their damage more than they should have to. Any other physical DD can cross that hate barrier between just enough and too much for a small amount of time without causing detrimental problems to the party. A RNG does it, the mob will move causing problems so they are almost forced to never cross that threshold. It's not the fault of the ranger in any way, it's SE's fault by nerfing them into that system.
 
at 66 you can make light with those shitty RNG WSs. Those don't have to be from that far back, and THF can TAWS if mob doesn't turn.
 
I do just fine standing a good distance behind the tank with my ebow.

I WS > Mob turns and faces me > Tank Turns Around > THF SATA > WS on tank.

Not hard really. If it doesn't turn, THF can still split SA and TA.

Not rocket science, just common sense.
 
Veresko said:
Yes cause a MNK or WAR really has to "work" after pressing Attack and wait for 100TP to press WS macro. And don't mention Utsu macros, that's just too much work.... /sarcasm off.

Edit: Sorry that was replied to, should have kept reading.
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Yeah, no offense, but making a repeating ranged attack macro isn't a whole lot of effort either. Please, no job in this game is difficult to play. It's just an excuse people make up so they can think they can have a shred of "skill."
 
Lavi said:
Again, THF+RNG combo is largely non-existant now. Back before the nerf, it was one of if not the most common party setups available. There are and will always be tons of THFs seeking at any time and with everyone wanting to be a top DD, RNGs were plentiful. The problem now is that there is no suitable way to hold a mob in a stationary position for a THF to get a SATA off. Even if you had a BLM use stun, it still complicates things. For starters, timing stun perfectly is difficult. I don't doubt the BLM can stun before the mob moves too far, but if the BLM goes to early, it'll still be staring at the tank and can mess with SA. Then there always is the problem of stun interfering with casting the MB. Casting back-to-back spells slows down reaction times and messes with the MB window of opportunity especially on longer casts like AM and Tier IV.
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SATA? Hahahahah.

I can post pics of myself closing Light from Sharkbite for 1600 damage from Arching Arrow, followed by another 1600 from Light. Lolthf.
 
Skaw said:
Yeah, no offense, but making a repeating ranged attack macro isn't a whole lot of effort either. Please, no job in this game is difficult to play. It's just an excuse people make up so they can think they can have a shred of "skill."
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He was reffering to the coment made that rng used to be an easy job, and that it became balanced by making them work after. He just pointed out how "hard" mnk and wars and other melee have it. I doubt he considers rng "hard" to play.
 
meeze said:
He was reffering to the coment made that rng used to be an easy job, and that it became balanced by making them work after. He just pointed out how "hard" mnk and wars and other melee have it. I doubt he considers rng "hard" to play.
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Exactly, it's not rocket science to line up for a proper distance. Especially considering the sweet spots have been magnified since the update.

I think he's just saying, that's something melee don't have to take into consideration -- Just line up and engage.
 
meeze said:
He was reffering to the coment made that rng used to be an easy job, and that it became balanced by making them work after. He just pointed out how "hard" mnk and wars and other melee have it. I doubt he considers rng "hard" to play.
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Once you've gotten used to it, I fail to see how it actually makes much of a difference.
 
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