RDM BS

Lokkin said:
what kinda idiot asks a RDM/BLM to main heal?

i mean thats just

just...

JUST




STUPID

k im done hehe
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My last party as RDM in fact.

Complete with meleeing only BRD (I only got Ballad occasionally after fights)and a meleeing RDM (a refresh and cure here and there).

It was my first party after a month of fishing and was kind of discouraging, so I went back to BST.

This was at level 55.
 
BST is about the only way to go anymore. Tired of spending 100's of thousands of gil for equipment for my whm only to sit around with nothing to do.

Grouping is the poo. Let's all make BSTs and be anti-social.
 
I had enough on Meleeing rdms. From the course of 35~61 as my blm, the course of 50~74 with my monk, not a single meleeing Rdm did their job as they were suppose to do. Being a rdm and playing another job will clearly see if the rdm is performing well or not. 2 nights ago we had yet another rdm who focused way too much on the meleeing side, shattering our exp per hour into million pieces. The "Not all rdm who melees suck" excuse is begining to become tire some. I have yet to see any one performing well who involves meleeing. It maybe human nature to stick in the screen to see how much damage you are doing, forgetting about other roles still needed to be done.

Perhaps its me as previous job being a rdm knows more from experience, but really its getting old. Me and Blowy are having yet another conversation in another forum (Alakhazam if you want to know in detail). Next time I see any rdm who focus on melee, I will send their arse with Warp2 back to their hp and kick. Sorry I had enough of rdms who ruin the play time of the other 5 members just because he wants to melee for his own pleasure. No meleeing rdm aren't on par with the other DDers. Hell if I want more damage I will invite another job who is SPECIFICLY designed to do that.

Flame me if you want. But I had nothing but bad experiences with meleeing rdms.
 
Shia said:
Flame me if you want. But I had nothing but bad experiences with meleeing rdms.
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:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
It's ignorant to think that ALL rdm's are bad at melee - just as it is ignorant to think that ALL of one race is bad at any particaular thing. It is the player him/herself that sux, not the job. I hate been in MANY a party where the WHM sucked at healing - this does not mean I think that all WHM's can't heal. W/E - you are entitled to your opinion, and sorry you have had bad experiences, but I have known a few RDM's that are very good at melee.
 
I dont think his statement is ignorant at all. Facts are facts, and a RDM in melee is spending mana and time (which equals mana) doing things that arnt what the job was invited to the party for.

I think the ignorant part of this arguement is all the RDMs who spent 50-60 levels in their job never realizing that their melee is a waste. You may very well be able to perform what is needed of you while you melee... but a RDM fufilling these obligations outside of melee can do them better, more often, and for longer.

For some of you, slower xp is okay. For some of us, its not. We want to move as quickly as humanly possible. Why? Becuase xp is freaking boring, and the more XP/Hour I get, the less time I have to spend xp'ing.
 
Keits said:
You may very well be able to perform what is needed of you while you melee... but a RDM fufilling these obligations outside of melee can do them better, more often, and for longer.
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So untrue. You seem to forget that the attack animation is interruptable - therefore I can cast at any given point I choose. What.. just because I my attack button ONE TIME at the beginning of the fight, and took 2 SECONDS to cast Enblizzard, I am seriously detrimental to the PTs XP? If you know your job, and you understand that melee is last priority, WTF does it hurt to melee inbetween your casts? I will answer: It doesn't hurt a goddamn thing but your foolish doctrine.
 
Theorist said:
Keits said:
You may very well be able to perform what is needed of you while you melee... but a RDM fufilling these obligations outside of melee can do them better, more often, and for longer.
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So untrue. You seem to forget that the attack animation is interruptable - therefore I can cast at any given point I choose. What.. just because I my attack button ONE TIME at the beginning of the fight, and took 2 SECONDS to cast Enblizzard, I am seriously detrimental to the PTs XP? If you know your job, and you understand that melee is last priority, WTF does it hurt to melee inbetween your casts? I will answer: It doesn't hurt a goddamn thing but your foolish doctrine.
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What are you doing while you arnt casting? Melee? Or are you resting for extra mana?

Which do you think does more damage? Your melee? Or the extra nuke you cast with the mana you didnt waste on an enspell, and the two-three ticks of mp you regened?

Which RDM's nukes will be stronger? Yours, with your sword or dagger? Or the RDM with the INT wand or Ice Staff?

Case-in-fucking-point. You = Dumb if you seriously think that being in melee, as a RDM, doesnt hurt anything. You dont automatically suck for being in melee, but you certainly arnt as good as a RDM of similar skill level who isnt in melee.

You guys can keep coming into these threads and disputing that, but the mathematics dont allow a RDM in melee to benifit a party as much as a RDM out of melee does. Or does 2+2 not equal 4?
 
Of course, the only thing that enters any Keits(tm) equation are xp gains at the end of the day, which is why xp is so boring.

I like the thrill of certain pick-up parties. I'm not going in there on the sole purpose to gain 2 levels by the end of the day. I'm expecting to see new faces, new places, try and raffine new strategies, possibly have a close brush-off with Death... Heck, HAVE SOMETHING HAPPEN!!!

Doing math means planning everything ahead and expecting everything to turn up like the equation. Grow down Keits. This is a game, not work, and even less rocket scientry. If you can't handle a little adventure, then I have no reason to ever associate with you in game. I'm not playing this game to reach 75, then have fun. I want to have fun RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!! AND IT CAN BE DONE!!!

So yes, a RDM meleeing is less effective than a RDM concentrating on magery. And cookie-cutter parties gives out great xp/hour ratios than odd subs. And 2 + 2 = 4. But I don't like doing homework during ALL of my free time.

All xp and no variety makes Keits a flame-board addict.
 
Coeurl de Lionne (Mithra): 35RNG/17NIN
Flaru-Wuru (Taru male): 23WHM/11BLM
Firewall (Galka): 13MNK
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Say that again when you have 30k+ per level to swallow.

When you have a job (or two in my case), and it comes time to use your free time...

Every
Second
Counts

Why would I want to spend 2 hours gaining 6k xp, when I could use the same 2 hours to gain 8-10k? Because it was 'more fun' to gain less, because you 'experimented' and 'tried new things'.

Believe you me, buddy, there isnt much new to try when you've spent 60 levels in one job.

The math side of things is not something I consider every night when I xp, btw. That part is presented, here, on a discussion forum, for those who fancy themselves knowlagable to swallow. Most of the people that I've met in FFXI who claim to know what they are talking about dont.

When confronted, these people quickly blacklist me, as they have no valid replies or responses.

Once again; do what you want in your parties. Melee. I dont give a shit, so long as you RDMs are having a good time.

What you *shouldnt* do is come to a discussion forum and claim that melee is better for your party. You cant back that statement up, because it mathematically impossible.

The Keits doesnt care if you want to be slightly worse or xp slightly slower. Thats your buisness. What I fight against are false claims and skewed 'facts'. This theme is consistant in nearly all my posts.

So, back off :)
 
I'll just say a few things once more.

-RDM nuking is ok.
For me, being a Tarutaru with a very large mana pool and all. I can last more than 10 minutes without having to rest, and keeping up with what makes things more prouductive. (Refresh cycle). I've stayed out of meelee in a few occations, only to keep peace within the party. However i still never had a chance to rest. Reason being is the cycle must be maintained or else there will not be a smooth connection in the cycle. When i see my own refresh wear off, it must be casted it back immediatly, or else i'd be burned. After casting Refresh, i have 18 seconds to cast it on teh next in line. There is no time to rest, unless the party has less than 5 MP users.

About the Nuking part. For a RDM to maintain their cycles smoothly they must spend their MP efficiently for the duration of the 10 minutes.

"One that nukes too much will need to rest in order to continue their duties, thus putting a gap in the MP timelines" a RDM that participates in every Magic Burst, definatly will fall behind in the cycles. It's not a bad thing all the time. Sometimes the party can afford the cycle to fall behind a full 18 seconds, other times it hurts the prouduction. When battling something that uses aoe against the party, it's never a good time for RDM to nuke, because of the amount of MP that is used in those kinds of battles.

I cannot speak for other races of RDM, but the Tarutaru. The Convert will fill the MP gauge. Had i been a Galka or an Elvaan or a Hume or Mithra, i definatly would not Melee. Rest is most needed for them to fill their MP gauge even after converting. For me to rest has proven useless. I needn't even check the convert clock before i convert. This is why i spend "when is time to rest" meleeing. And Melee does not effect casting as we all know. Either way, the result is more damge.

((To Shia))

Weather it's your party or not, you had better make sure your party is ok with your steriotypes against a RDM that melee's before you hatefully send them to their home point. So your've had a/few Melee RDM that dosn't know how to please, so you take it out on all of us that do, by venting your distasteful thoughts in the fourms. I can only imagine how limited your mind is, in the fact that a Melee RDM cannot possibly be any good.

Like everyone else, i have a few enemies. Not talking about Keits, i think he's a betch and all, but atleast he puts up some fourm of a logical debate, and this is a flameboard, But you Shia are different than the others, It would please you to lead a bashing squad wouldn't it. I do not wish to be scolded by people, because they follow someone as foolish enough to assume all players are the same. I also noticed you too are a RDM, (A very high level one) And if your read what i just wrote about how i play and disagree with me, that's because you do not have enough mana, and the convert magnitude to play the way i do. Of coarse i'm assuming your not a Tarutaru, and cannot even begin to explore that way. And if you are a Tarutaru, you can explore it, and even more closed than you make yourself out to be.
 
Keits said:
What are you doing while you arnt casting? Melee? Or are you resting for extra mana?
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I do not need extra MP, even at my lowly level of 42, I have tons of mp to constantly refresh myself, a PLD AND a WHM, hit chain 5, 6 or whatever - Convert, rinse and repeat. No rest required until the end of the chain - when a WHM and a BLM will outpace Refresh anyway and require rest. THEN I rest.

Now if shit hits the fan - I am OOM or close - YES I withdraw from melee and rest. Like I said, if a RDM is going to melee, he/she MUST understand their role and how best to fill it. a RDM OOM is worthless to the PT.

Which do you think does more damage? Your melee? Or the extra nuke you cast with the mana you didnt waste on an enspell, and the two-three ticks of mp you regened?[/quote}

Actually, the aggregate melee damage will equal about 1.5 magic bursts - at my level. If I rest in between spells (Impossible! I am a freaking RDM I am ALWAYS doing something!) I gain what? Maybe 15 MP?

Which RDM's nukes will be stronger? Yours, with your sword or dagger? Or the RDM with the INT wand or Ice Staff?
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Now this brings up a point that I posted in my last response. I am level 42. When I actually DO hit a point where I deem melee damage detrimental, I will stop. An Ice staff might be such an occassion. As for right now, I have +18 INT with Melon Pies +1 - I hardly ever get resisted as is. And the main focus to INT is just that - get by resists. The only other thing INT adds is 1 point of damage for 1 point of INT. So I am missing 5-10 extra damage a nuke, big deal! I nuke maybe two times a fight!

Case-in-fucking-point. You = Dumb if you seriously think that being in melee, as a RDM, doesnt hurt anything. You dont automatically suck for being in melee, but you certainly arnt as good as a RDM of similar skill level who isnt in melee.
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Says YOU...

I am all about XP too. Hitting 4-5k an hour gives me chills and a sense of comraderie with my fellow PT members. It's good times. And I have never had a problem hitting those high chains and until I do have trouble - I am in there swinging a sword and averaging 300 melee damage a fight.
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Keits, maybe this is some numbers you will understand.

My melee damage per fight = 300

Thats 2 less attacks the mob gets
Thats 2 less cures a WHM has to cast
Thats 1 or 2 less nukes a BLM has to cast

Thats 15-30 less MP for me

A RDMs job is to make the PT perform more efficiently - just like a BRD.
 
no Keits, You + People who don't agree with you = Fight.

The RDM is capable of Meleeing, but only on the Level of Basic Melee. Not SC or SATA. Sometimes you forget to put things in Perspective. When we talk about RDM Melee, we don't mean Fulltime Melee. we mean "/attack".

At least that is my Opinion on it. RDM's usually don't partake in SC or anything like that. They get a couple of Hits in while Casting ... Keep that in Mind before you make a Snide Remark now.
 
If you are in melee, then chances are, you aren't paying attention to EVERYTHING that's going on. Your damage is nothing compared to a ranger or any other damage dealer, so why would you ever bother?
 
because you melee doesnt necessarily mean that your not paying attention to other things. as we all know, to engage a target is to just attack it...for rdm, he doesnt have to prov, sc, etc so once he has targeted, all he has to do from there is concentrate on nuke, heal, etc
of course, the dmg caused by a rdm in melee is close to nil, but still, the bit of dmg that he does "could"(in the once in a blue moon theory) be a deciding factor of saving someone from dying.
 
Theorist said:
Keits, maybe this is some numbers you will understand.

My melee damage per fight = 300

Thats 2 less attacks the mob gets
Thats 2 less cures a WHM has to cast
Thats 1 or 2 less nukes a BLM has to cast

Thats 15-30 less MP for me

A RDMs job is to make the PT perform more efficiently - just like a BRD.
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Monster TP = More AE. You are giving the monster tons of extra TP.
More AE = More cures = more mana wasted

You want to help kill the monster quicker? Do it with nukes and dots, that dont give it enough extra to do an extra AE per fight.

RDM melee is NOT better than RDM non-melee.

Again, the math does not allow you to be correct, no matter how you word it.
 
I was about to post something along the lines of "Here are some numbers that you might understand"... but then I deleted it when I realized:

You dont even understand your own numbers.
 
Keits said:
Every
Second
Counts
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OMG!!!! BIG FONTS!!!! It ***MUST*** be true!!! :P

...And in fact it is. That's why I don't want to waste days, weeks, or heaven forbid months levelling if I'm not having any fun playing this game. If that's really how it is past L50, and I can't make it fun for myself, then you won't see me playing FFXI anymore past that point, that's for sure. I measure my profit by fun/day. It's a totally subjective measurement, I know... Go ahead, blame the French judge.
 
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